let's see MAX balance this way

let's say tomorrow SOE adds 3 NS weapons to the game, these weapons all have stagnant CoF (like 2x MCG ADS CoF) and cant ADS:

first is an LMG, here's its stats:

984 rpm
125 @ 10m, 100 @ 50 m attack power
90 ammos per clip, no weap attachments.
ttk= 0.425 sec in theory
440 m/s bullet speed.

very high damage but ttk got a bit screwed up because even the first bullet doesn't go in the center of the circle but anywhere in its area.

is it balanced? lets compare it to TR's mini chaingun (BRRT'd), just because its fixed COF makes it very similar.

MCG has ~845 rpm but does much more dmg per bullet at both min and max distance (143, 112), has like 50% smaller COF, 10 more bullets in its mag and a lot more bullet speed (600 m/s).

it's theoretical ttk is 0.025 seconds more than our NS LMG, but with that 2x smaller cof to compensate more than enough both the spin up time and the increased theoretical ttk (2x smaller cof means double the bullets will cover the circle area)

second weapon is again a stagnant COF LMG, here's its stats

852 rpm
143 @ 10m, 112 @ 50 m damage model
75 bullets x mag, again no other wep attachments.
430 m/s bullet speed
0.425 seconds ttk

again, mcg has 2x smaller CoF that compensate more than enough the little less RPM, but has also 25 more bullets x mag, a lot more bullet speed.

if these weapons would be released tomorrow by SOE, I would stick with the mcg. the biggest problem of these weapons would be the stagnant COF that makes them deeply weaker than what they seem on paper.

Third weapon is an automatic shotgun:

209 RPM
250 @ 8m, 90 @ 18m damage model.
6 shots per bullet.
10 bullets per mag
can attach slugs

now, 250*6= 1500 total damage per shot, instakill at min range.
even equipping slugs will make you 1HKO ppl at 8m (only drawback is that you cant ADS so the shots will be not precise)
remember this is an automatic shotgun


now, between these 3 weapons, which one would you think it's the best/needs balance?

Where are you going with this?

He is taking a roundabout way of saying nerf NC... I think....

OP being sneaky sneaky.

He told you, that the NC MAX is to strong and needs a Neef because ppl cant kill anything in a greater distance with the Mercy and a Hacksaw can do so. Of course.
Do we even have a full auto Maxshottie? And dont they all need two shots?

did you just make up 3 weapons and compare 2 to the MCG?

I suppose your made-up weapons are actually representative of current weapons that everyone is whining about.
And you are trying to subliminally bash one faction or whine about something

Because if not then you probably should go back to the drawing board and invent something else more interesting to share with us.

He is attempting to say that NC MAXes are OP, and that they should be nerfed.

However, ithe actual diference in performance between Blueshifts and Mattocks (just lifting the two highest performing AI MAX weapons in the game), is pretty negligable - with mattocks having a higher KPU than blueshifts by 0.12... The usage of these weapons is even more interesting, with Blueshifts being used more than twice as much as mattocks, implying than their uses are more varied and not quite so specialist.

NC MAX weapons get a lot of kills when they are used in the situation in which they shine. They do not get used at any other time.
VS MAX weapons are far useful in far more situations, they get used more frequently as a result.
The TR use pounders instead instead of their designated AI MAX weapons, because they are frighteningly effective AI weapons, being both spammy and explosive.

Technically, I use my Pounders because I expect enemy MAXes and that's what I should have to use against enemy MAXes to be effective. Same way with Comets for the VS.

lol I didnt mean to be sneacky or whatever, obviously what I did is comparing the damage output of a MAX dual wielding his best AI weapons with infantry guns.

if such "made up weaps" existed, which one would you think would be the best/would need some balance tweaks?

the hacksaws are generally considered not the best ai weapon for the nc max that's a toss up between the mattocks and the grinders the hacksaws are seen as too short range with even worse cof and slightly lower damage per pellet not to mention automatic with 10 shells with longer reloads meaning more misses and longer down time with very short up time.

I know, I just took them for the thread because they're automatic and still 2HKO enemies pmuch like every non pump-action shotgun.

Is this thread even about MAXes?

The thing is: he didn't say anything was OP or UP, he asked if there was anything OP or UP, which there isn't

people going all "OHHHHH he wants to nerf the NC MAX" seem to allready have a state of mind that the NC MAX weapons are too strong

I didnt read anything but i just want to say that i would like to see bullet drop for every t1 AV Max weapon.

gosh why so difficult?

I'm not talking about nerfs here. I'm comparing damage output of AI max weapons.
the first post is taken from what I've understood of AI MAXing.
double wielding a weapon is pmuch like having the same weap with double the damage or RoF (not double the bloom nor recoil in this case).
if the above statement is correct, then the "made up weapons" we come to by combining the best VANU and TR AI weapons (nebulas and onslaught) are pmuch less useful than a MCG, and a TR or VANU MAX unit could achieve realistically more by weilding a single MCG. especially because of the big *** CoF their AI weapons have.

so my final question is, why for TR and VANU you have to combine the two single best weapons to get a damage output that is same/inferior to MCG, while NC can combine the damage of two mediocre ai weapons to give birth to what is basically an automatic shotgun that 1HITKOs ppl even with slugs?

seriously speaking, tell me where I am wrong or what I understood wrong, I'm not calling for nerfs nor buffs, just wanna understand

Even going back to Planetside 1, the best Scattermax was to use the one with the tightest choke. It means longer range when you need it, and landing all the pellets in a smaller area.

All of them. Mag size is too high on all AI MAX weapons and needs to be severely cut down. NC MAXes need something other than shotguns, its a stupidly hard thing to balance and nobody likes shotgun MAXes, not even the NC.

2nd weapon is most overpowered in this conditions amongst 3.
Maxes AI weapons made for dealing with masses of infantry, and sustained fire for longer time versus infantry from 15-30 meters is much more deadly than instagibbing some infantry in 5-10 meters. Why? Simple.
1. As a max, you're taking much less damage, and most of weapons has their max damage only in 10 meters (15-16 with SPA). That means, you can hold longer and deal more damage for enemy infantry masses.
2. As a max, you're are not so easy kill at 20-30 meters, as from 10 meters. Each hit from you're weapons make a "flinch" for enemy hitted, making his accuracy worth for a small amount of time. However, against automatic weapon it means that cone of wire growth significantly if you're hitted while firering. Less accuracy - less damage for max - more time to hold for max.
3. As a max, you're cannot be heavily outgunned by 1-2 persons from 40-50 meters (at least, without a direct LR hit). Your auto weapons will make enemy to run or to hide, giving your time either to close up or to run out to cover. As a shooty max without ready charge you will be wrecked before you can do serious damage. Moreover, if you make somehow your enemy to run, you probably cannot kill him in the back.
4. Slugs not the way, cause with slugs you giving up your ability to deal with enemy maxes (you know, that slugs do fixed amount of damage, don't you? For standart shotty it is 500, if i remember correctly.), also you giving up your refire time to stabilize cone of fire. For being effective against infantry you also need to stand still or to crouch, and slow target in PS2 - most time easiest kill.
5. Why not the 1st one? 2nd have better kill potential against nanoweave armor.

So, dealing with tiny groups of infantry (2-4) close range - shotties are good. Dealing larger groups (more than 6) or farther than 15 meters - shotties are full crap due to poor damage at that distance already and very low sustained fire.

P.S. And that only talking about max against infantry, leaving away maxes duels or maxes with KA5.

NC MAX is totally fine, it has a brutal cap on its range after which it becomes useless.

They're usually camping inside buildings where you have to get into effective range to get at them or get past them. It explains why my experience with supporting NC MAX was one of trying with futility to get one to actually push, instead of letting the light infantry do all the grind work.