Lattice != End of tactics/strategy

First of all, partial quotation from Oxford Dictionary.

In the case of PS2, Strategy basically refers to the decision of where to strike/defend, tactics is how you actually attack or defend the god damn place.

Tactics

Zerg approach
If you're complaining that lattice is killing tactical play, take a good look at this standard zerg-on-zerg action near Abandoned NS Offices and Howling Pass Checkpoint: (Map courtesy of Planetside 2 Maps)


That is how your standard zergs roll against each other: Head on collision until one side gets overwhelmed by number. There are no tactics whatsoever because obviously not enough people on either sides have brains to even THINK about doing something else.

Tactical approach


Yes, it is very much possible, the NC on Connery surprised us today at Howling Pass when we were defending, where they succesfully deployed a Sunderer at the North entrance when most of the fighting was done in the south. But most of the time no one even bothers.

So at the end, it's YOU not using tactics, not lattice killing it.

Strategy

Zerg approach
Once again, look at this lattice map:


This is a typical mindless TR zerg rushing toward Rashnu, charging down one single lane with no strategy whatsoever, and of course they get repelled at Rashnu Biolab, because with the extremely poor strategic decision to push like this, they're basically opening themselves up to this:


... Rashnu Watchtower is definitely not a base that you can defend against a multi-directional zerg. Goodbye, stupid soon-to-be-slaughtered-by-NC zerg.

Strategic approach
A well prepared charge toward Rashnu would at least look like this:


When both Rashnu Cavern and Rashnu Watchtower are taken by the TR, they can enjoy a relatively linear assault on the Bio Lab itself instead of getting pounded on by a multi-directional zerg counterattack. Tactics like moving tanks up the hill between the two satellites to cover the helipad is also doable without having to worry (too much) about NC sneaking up behind them:


So yes, strategy still exists. It may be a bit more limited by the lattice and harder to execute, but stop pretending that it has been killed.


Conclusion

Lattice has little to no effect on tactics whatsoever. Surprise attacks on unware attackers/defenders via flanking/gal drop/Wraith Flash/etc are still completely possible and untouched.

Strategy is now limited by the lattice links that disallows you to capture adjacent base that is not connected by lattice link to any base your faction holds, but it is in no terms any less significant than before - strategic failure such as charging down a single lattice lane without thinking WILL bite you back.

Through and through, both strategy (which you people love to call tactics for some reasons) and actual tactics are NOT killed by the introduction of lattice on Indar. Stop using "no more tactical play" as your excuse to rally for the Hex system, whatever your intention may be.

Pretty much what you said.

Howling Pass is the perfect example of this, while people think that lattice system killed the strategy of sending a Sundy behind the enemy lines it actually never did because being an actual "frontile" were the main battle is happening (between two zergs) small platoons are the key to flank the enemy and make the difference.

In my thoughts, with Hex system platoons would just ignore the battle and go to the base that is behind the enemy lines. This is why we had the crown problem or the tech numancia before the patches months ago because people would just fight there if they were lone wolf or if they were in a platton they would just ghost caping because they would not face any resistance and to be honest thats the easy way of gaining exp without dying.

It's also incredibly boring. Capping empty bases because you have to to gain back ground because your faction is all at the crown, cut off but still fighting is beyond dull. Then after about 5 empty bases you meet a single enemy to youir squad of 5 - 10 players - whoopeeee!!! then it's another 5 empty bases before you meet the enemy zerg and can do nothing about it and start loosing the bases you just took - occasionally you'd get a squad v squad fight going on but in general lame game play.

This is what Hex defenders want back.

Now they complain that they're stuck with the lattice and their tactics have been taken away because they have a few less options on where they can cap next - boohoo - except not one of them employs tactics like trying to flank or thinking up anything else to beat the enemy.

TIP: If you find yourself in an endless battle for 3 hours and notice that nobody has tried a flanking maneuver yet - that's your fault. Don't blame the lattice because you and your side don't have the smarts to think of using some tactics.

I do agree with you about the effects. But i don't with your terminology .

Player strategy - from a classic military science pov - does not exist in this game. I do agree you can call it strategic if fronts are concerned, f.e. Left TR flank towards Howling - Rashnu - etc. But there is practically no coherence, at least on my server (Woodman), that allows somebody to set up a strategy per se. The strategy is pretty much induced by topography, targets and gameflow affected by human psychology. On the platoon-level you simply cannot call it strategy anymore. Here targets are simply given and involve operational and tactical skill, f.e. airdrops, coordinated combined arms attacks, etc. But I will accept, that references to strategy in Planetside 2 mean operational/non-battlefield-tactics.

Your maps do illustrate one thing very well. What you call strategic decisions are pretty much forced upon you and there is really no napoleonic genius required. The example of Rashnu Bio-Lab is good - for proving something different: You will need a zerg to have a chance with your operational choices. You cannot play a two-pronged attack on Rashnu without a zerg holding up the majority of the forces at one point, f.e. Rashnu watchtower. If that is not the case, the enemy forces will simply go after your flanking movement, resulting in a stalemate again, as seen many times. You even risk being pushed back on one side, rendering everything you've accomplished useless. So your "strategy" involves a zerg at one point - and it only works if sustained for enough time to suck in the zerglings psychologically. At that point nobody will look at you flanking-maneuver. That would imply, that the "mindless zerglings" also play strategic - or not? So - the so called "strategic" choices are merely a second option forced on you by player psychology and topography. Although hex gives you some more options that were more effective, due to cap times, the decision to flank itself is the second choice and there ist not really a multitude of possibilities in any system.

As I stated before, I think lattice has simply restricted small scale "strategic" decisions a little and has given battlefield tactics a more important role - at least on normal and underpop servers. Again I doubt that battles on highpop servers have become even bigger.

Cheers

Polydeukes

Lattice haters, or at least the essay-writing vocal ones, are nothing but arm-chair general casuals. Usually bad at the game, incapable of actual tactics-as described in the OP-and so they COMPENSATED by focusing all their "leadership" on being glorified sheep herders. Hex "Strategy," or basically "ghost cap while simultaneously talking about how cool you are for avoiding the 'zerg,'" was nothing but a coward's way out for bad leaders. Can't lead their men in a way that actually maximizes teamwork and force multipliers, and so any fight that can't be immediately won or doesn't favor them was simply ignored in favor of going to an easier target. Hex gave too many opportunities for bad outfits and bad leaders to avoid the ACTUAL GAMEPLAY because they had no business leading in said gameplay.

Now, in the glorious lattice system, outfits are tested. "Ghost-capping tactical super stealth 1337" squads die and whine because they don't understand how to keep their players together in heated situations-mostly because the players in those outfits are usually bad as well-and their actual combat teamwork, being totally untested, is awful.

Squads that focused on combat and got good at actual teamwork, those squads are doing fine in the lattice. All that time you wasted ghost capping was better spent by the people actually getting better at the game-which amazingly, involves enemies at the bases you go to now-.

I suppose I'm using the lack of tactics argument for a different reason. I'm basing it to what we had in PS1.

The hex system divided the map into very small areas. Since every single one of them must be captured separately, it means that we have either bases or outposts with spawns so close to each other that it takes about a minute to walk from one camp to another. Due to such closeness we are practically forced to fight in a very small area and those areas simply do not allow proper tactics.

You used the largest zone of Indar for your presentation of tactics. Now, was that a sheer accident or was it simply because it was the only zone you could use to demonstrate your point? Well, there are few other zones which has room for similar tactics, but the truth is that there aren't too many of them.

I do realize this is about to go beyond your point. I think the we should not have as many outposts in the game. As a matter of fact, they could all be removed or at least made neutral so that no one can capture them for spawns. Then draw the lattice links between the big bases only. This would turn the bases into main targets and it would definitely provide better platform for tactics.

What comes to your comments on the current lattice system and zone system from the tactical point of view. I do agree with you. There is hardly any difference between them. However I'd also say they are equally bad for that purpose. Things could be a lot better from that perspective.

The map meta game has nothing to do with tactics. You could make the map a gigantic picture of a cat eating cake, and tactics would not change. The game has tactics, the meta-game has no effect on this. It's a shooter, with combined arms, and a capture-defend objective. There's a whole lot of tactics that go into that situation in itself. There are literally endless tactics, regardless of where you are. The only limit to these is the outfit, and it just so happens that MOST outfits are utterly incompetent. Your entire post is nonsense.

Op the only thing that needed to be done by the Defenders at Howling Pass, in your example, was the use of scout radar. If the group is too stupid to set up a few flashes with scout radar while trying to defend, then yes no matter how much SOE dumbs this game down, these guys will lose everytime.

I agree fully on the OP.

And this, is a super Idea. Maybe leave the towers at the lattice to, but combine the outposts with a hex?
So you could cut a base from Warpgate and it will somehow lose a benefit whatever?.
Maybe you should figure out this Idea even more.
Lattice System is not finished rightnow.
There are many parts missing, for example a possiblitiy to brake Zergbiolabdefends by surrounding it and keep it wit out a link to WG for lets say an hour?

Yes the size of the map is too small but I doubt that can be increased so I'd favour removing some cap bases and leaving them as structures - saying that though I believe a complete map overhaul is required.

Before this thread goes any further:

https://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/index.php?search/3948780/&q=lattice&
o=date&c[title_only]=1


http://translate.google.com/


http://www.grammarly.com/

the name of this thread makes it look like another anti-lattice thread though, but i agree regardless of the name.

Yes yes it's all there for a SINGLE base. Ohh let's attack a SINGLE base. One at a time. All like little ducks in a row as the Lattice nanny holds our hand.

The hex you could do all that and more except play with the whole map rather than ONE SINGLE BASE in ONE FIGHT.

EDIT
Last picture NC side:
Why can't you take Crimson bluff from Rashnu to get staging areas for howling pass and the palisade?
Have some of your force start out from there and then push to those two areas while you have another force push up from Rashnu to NS material and Zruvan Amp station? That one adjacent territory (i.e NOT GHOST CAPPING) allows you an opening for two more fronts attacking from both ends and taking 4-5 territories.

The ONLY time you have a choice of a SINGLE BASE is if you are pushed back to the warpgate, in which case you've lost, or only just started. At all other times there are a number of places where you can be sure less options that with hex, but still more than ONE.

The lattice system does not stop you from attacking anyone, only from capturing there is still merit in fighting behind enemy lines, denying armor/air reinforcement to the front lines, getting behind the enemy that are stopping your empire moving forward and causing havoc, the only limitation is your will.

Even at the warpgate I think you have the option of 2 different bases?

Yeah assuming you own both of them but its perfectly viable that you only own one of them depending on how far the battle you are joining has progressed.

If you own zero bases, you still have multiple connections from the warpgate, correct? Multiple bases which you could attack?

I don't think there is ever a situation where there is only one base you can possibly attack (unless you own the entire map minus one base).

You always have a minimum of 3 options if you're Warp Gated. Most of the time from my experience, you have from 7-11 options to attack or defend.

If you own the entire map, then you have 6 options to defend.

So on your server right now, every faction is currently fighting at one location on indar?

You are making a huge leap between pictures 4 and 5. Yes, it's going to be a lot harder to take Rashnu with only the watchtower. You trivialize what it takes to get from picture 4 to picture 5. In order to do this you have to take 5 additional territories: Briggs Laboratories, East Canyon Checkpoint, The Palisade, Crimson Bluff Tower, Rust Mesa Outlook, and then you can take Rashnu cavern. Not that it can't be done, but strategy won't get you there. The only time this happens is when you severely outnumber the enemy. The only top level strategy is to determine which lines are more important to you. Since they are all the same it turns into which ever has the most certs. Hence why it feels more pointless than ever. All that's going to happen is the NC will get pissed that you took their farm, and push you back to Howling Pass / Mao so the cycle can start again.

The problem is not enough links. If Crimson Bluff and Howling Pass were connected I'd have the option to say " well we can't take Rashnu yet, but we can assist to clear the jam at Crimson Bluff, and then I would have the forces I need for Rashnu"