Infiltrator Design And Newb's Rant.

Discussion in 'Infiltrator' started by deusex2, Nov 23, 2012.

  1. deusex2

    I'm the newb, btw. Don't get me wrong, I played a bit during beta and in the last couple of days, most of that time I was playing infiltrator, trying to make myself useful while trying to survive... And then I've switched to LA/HA and boy or boy, did that made my infiltrator feel megauseless.

    Yeah, there's so many things that wrong with infiltrator, I can tell it right away, even though I'm a newb at this. Yeah sure, good players can make infiltrators work, but when you need a beast-like player to make a certain class barely effective, is when you definitely know something is wrong...Did I mentioned that everything was wrong with the infiltrator?

    Anyway, here's my small list of things wrong with infiltrator, although knowing SOE and Smedly, I doubt anything is going to get done, but still:

    1)WHITE JUMPSUITS?! Really? You give infiltrator, the guy who's supposed to blend with surroundings, a white jumpsuit?! Why not dark grey or pale green, or even black or anything that stands out less?!

    2)Stealth is practically useless. Sure it has some uses, but when you're playing with low graphical settings, you are so painfully obvious...Actually, same goes for high settings and it doesn't really matters weather you're 50 or 100 meters away, you're still painfully noticeable, which makes stealth fairly useless against trained eye.

    3)Mobility-infiltrator has NONE. No tricks, no gadgets no nothing that would allow him to go where others shouldn't be or to avoid unwanted attention by hiding somewhere under the ceiling. Why can't infiltrators choose to have LA jetpacks instead of stealth cloaks?!

    4)Hacking-is also practically useless. Suppose you manage to sneak by all the base defenders and hack vehicle terminal, suppose you manage to pull out Sunderer with spawnpoint, just how long does it going to take to any sane person to notice that vehicle terminal is hacked, put 1+1 together and to figure out that there's an infiltrator with a Sunderer hiding somewhere? And then he just grabs few HAs and blows the thing to pieces along with infiltrator.

    Not to mention the fact that hacking is pretty much useless, it also does not contributes anything to a fight or to a bigger picture. Medics can sorta revive, engineers can fix stuff, HA can own anything and their mama, while LAs are highly mobile and are better at sniping that infiltrator+they own everyone and their mama at CQC...Infiltrator can pew-pew with sniper rifle, but he can't contribute anything and he's useless at CQC AND his hacking is useless as well. Why not improve on it?! Make it so if hack the terminal and you keep hacking/channeling said terminal, you can do some nasty stuff to enemy side in that sector? Like, make stuff cost more resources, or delay a respawn by a second or so, or make players respawn with random class/loadouts, or even make an artificial queue for vehicle spawns or something?

    Or just bring back all the PS1 stuff!

    6)Speaking of vehicles...I'm not sure about medics, but I'm fairly certain that all other classes are supposed one or another way of taking down land/air vehicles, so how come infiltrator has none?! How come infiltrator can't place a satchel charge on some tank or paint it for artillery strike or something? Or even throw a pile of poo at the front view camera to temporally blind the driver?! How come the sneaky guy is the one guy who can't do a thing vs vehicles?

    7)Shift delay for steadying the aim sway is annoying. It shouldn't even be there.

    8)Bolt-action re-scoping in order to reload? Are you kidding me? I have to let go the zoom-in in order to reload? Why can't my infiltrator do it automatically? And it's even worse with toggle zoom-in option. I have to hit RMB in order to zoom, take a shot, hit RMB again in order to reload, hit RMB yet again in order to come back into zoom-in mode? That's annoying and has no purpose, other than to annoy the, I mean infiltertor.

    9)And why the heck I can't do anything while stealthed?! I can't use melee, I can't fire any gun, and unless I'm using sniper scope(x6 and higher), I can't see the markings on regular scopes and I can't even see iron sights, WTH?!

    10)Why is that infiltrator has a default melee? Where is that one-hit kill, shown in the cinematic? Or any backstab mechanic? It would probably enable infiltrators to, you know, infiltrate...

    11)Secondary weapons, infiltrator needs a choice out of those. TR and NC pistols may be ok, but VS one sucks plain and simple, and even TR/NC infiltrator can use some fully automatic pistol/smg or even a shotgun pistol.

    12)Sniper rifles with IRON SIGHTS?! Seriously?! Why do those even exist?! Bolt-action, iron sight sniper rifle?! Who's grand idea was that anyway?! It would be ok if those were mid-range, semi-auto, high power+small ammo mag+long reload guns, but those are bolt-fraggin-action, long/medium range sniper rifles with iron sights and maximum scope of x4! They are pretty much useless, the only way to use them is to stealth, hit someone with melee+bolt-action up close, but even than the default sniper rifles are so much better!.

    So either scope those "sniper" rifles or place them into scout rifles category...Personally, I'd rather SOE just remove those at all.

    13) Scout rifles...So we have one semi-automatic rifle, basically the same as TR/VS starting rifle, minus the sniper scope and we have a wannabe SMG, lower damage per shot than any standard primary gun, with lower accuracy and lower mag size. Who's bright idea was that, anyway? To give nerfed SMG to infiltrator, in a game where about 70-80% of combat is CQC(and then to nerf it even further for VS side)? Why can't infiltrator have the same "smg" as LA's one? It seems to be even better at sniping than most of semi-auto sniper rifles, anyway.

    14)Claymore is remotely useful, hologram is completely useless and I don't even know what the hell for EMP grenades are! Could infiltrator get something useful instead? Oh, I dunno, like something against land/air vehicles, or remote detonation bomb? Or maybe even some RC anti-personal/vehicle scout/attack drone?

    so many more stuff that is wrong with infiltrator! For now I'm simply out of steam. I guess I should play another hour or so as infiltrator and come back here with even more rant.
    • Up x 1
  2. Exidius

    I can agree on everything exept giving him a Jetpack I think thats not what a stealth class is looking for I'd prefer a grappaling kook or something not as loud (wich is really ironic since the stealth is louder than the LA Jetpack -> srsly ?)
  3. Warhawke

    I agree. Of course, minus the jetpack. Only because it would take away the only gimmick LA has.
  4. Aktarus

    jetpack would be OP so no, and for your n°8 i would be ok to avoid the unscope part to reload via certs and not to cheap so you get it only if you choose to go deeper into a sniper build because its already efficient like it is now ...

    and im still saying that the C4 via certs points , ( not to cheap too so people would have to choose wich way they want to go ) is a must have for someone who's supposed to infiltrate i dont even know why they gave it to the light assault and not us infiltrator.
  5. RobotNinja

    There are some certs for the Infiltrator that may be implemented in the future such as a cloak that lets you fire a secondary weapon while cloaked, a cloak that makes you move faster and anti-material ammunition that could damage vehicles.

    Aside from that all of your other arguments are severely Lrn2Play. Just because you think Infiltrator is lone wolf doesn't mean you have to wander around randomly in the middle of nowhere and wait an hour for an enemy to show up. This may sound crazy but you could try joining a squad/platoon/outfit. Also, has it not occurred to you that Infiltrators can hack enemy turrets and go to town on enemy vehicles, aircraft and infantry? I shot down a ridiculous amount of aircraft last night when I hacked some AA turrets at an amp station.
  6. SideOfBeef

    1) Irrelevant, people are looking at silhouettes which do not change with your skin, color doesn't make a difference. The black TR infiltrator is no harder to spot than the grey VS one or the multicoloured NC.

    2) No, stealth works pretty well for me. Don't expect to just run straight infront of somebody's face?

    3) Infiltrator can't choose the LA jetpack because the Infiltrator isn't LA. Infiltrator is defined by it's cloak, if you don't want to use the cloak then you don't want to play the class.

    4) Hacking is incredibly useful for talking down base defenses. If you have a squad, then hacking out a Sunderer is extremely powerful. If you are outnumbered by attentive HAs, you aren't good enough to fight them, and you aren't bothering to hide your Sunderer, then why are you expecting to win?

    5) You didn't write one.

    6) HA is the only class designed to take down vehicles in open combat. LA can use C4, but that's only effective if the LA actually uses its class ability. Other classes can unlock C4 as well, but without mobility/stealth they can't reliably use it. The infiltrator doesn't have C4, but can hack AV turrets instead.

    7) Personal preference

    8) Personal preference

    9) Balance. Being able to fire from cloak is overpowered, as was learned in beta.

    10) Balance. Sorry, you can't shoot through the roof/wndscreen of a Galaxy either.

    11) Personal preference, the VS default pistol gives me excellent results, and better than the other factions'. Try pressing RMB.

    12) Personal preference, some people like them.

    13) Personal preference, they work fine for me. If you really think they're the worst weapons in the game, post up some data.

    14) Claymore is useful, I don't know about the other options. The class does not need anything else to use against vehicles.
  7. Warhawke

    If they gave the sniper rifle to LA, I would so happy.
  8. TribbleFluffer

    i played Infil yesterday at one of the battles of The Stronghold with vanu...i was pearched on a rock, right next to the road with my spotter....two vanu tanks, one MBT and one LT drove tward us firing up the road at the base behind us, me and my spotter cloaked and the tanks, plus two infantry ran right by us...i literally mean, right by us, like not 5 broad daylight and the infintry never saw who killed them... it took another infiltrator to kill us as we where falling back to a new vantige point

    EDIT: so played well, played right, and played smart, the infiltrator is deadly in its own right. Maybe not a complete base wrecker/death in tights, but you have to be abit more, james bond infiltrator type to get into a base, it does suck that they dont have a grappler or antigrav beam or something though...

    EDIT2: Also, whats your idea of stealth? rinning right upto someone and shankign them? dude, you should try taking the longway to an objective, not the straight and narrow, try ducking into side cooridors to let your scloak recharge, or running behind containers in the amp stations, take the long way the way least defended next time and you might live long enough to blow up a genderator, or cap somthing.
  9. Aktarus

    so when you hack a AA turret with your pro skill it buff the AA dmg ? or you just play on a nub server ? because any aircraft pilot can easily fly out of range before those pathetic AA turret can shoot down anything :rolleyes:
  10. Aktarus

    play 15 rank like that , you gonna see what ps1 cloaker lovers are talking about when they complain. hacking 1 useless spawn console for 10 sec in a lonely base that no oen defend before you get ***** for free and hacked back by someone who just switched 30 sec to get it back and that didnt certed the infiltrator at all while you spended 15 rank of cert point into it cant be really called "being usefull".
  11. RobotNinja

    Instead of wildly firing at any aircraft you see, you wait for them to enter what military strategists refer to as the "kill zone". In my application, I simply wait for them to land on a resupply pad, bonus if the pilot gets out and starts to repair. If you're in a contested territory or near one, many of the aircraft landing here will be already damaged and attempting to repair. Instead of automatically shooting them down, let them land and get comfortable, then take them down or at least wait until they're close to fire. If you begin firing at them at outer range of your turret they will simply fly away. If you wait until they get close to fire then even if they try to fly away they're still in optimal range.

    So, who's the nub, nub?
  12. Skeith

    im inclined to agree the infiltrator feels like an incomplete class right now
  13. Aktarus

    just have to look at your CoD kid sig to say its still you , but i will add that you are probably more a wannabe than a nub.
    you are actually trying to learn war strategics to a 33 yo soldier irl ,anyone with at least 2 neuron left know to wait before to unload , if you really think you're the only pro here to know that get out of your basement asap.

    its not like i already stated that i play cloaked on ps1 since the beta.but ofc you have to read a whole thread to print everything.

    i still maintain that's buIIshlt ... even landed you still have way enough time to escape or just have to jump out. i already did it several time on some lib who landed their plane with their tail stuck IN my AA turret unloaded till overheat the turret , they was dmged maybe at 40% not more.

    basing your statement on random free frags vs total nubz that anybody could have done blindfolded wont make you look l33t in this thread. and wont help to improve the game for sure.

    its typically because of these kind of feelings that the game balance is actually ridiculous
  14. deusex2

    1)WHITE Infiltrator on sandy background...Yeah, that's VERY irrelevant, apart from the fact that infiltrator stands out from miles away, even during night hours.

    2)First of all, it literally is useless simply because any chump can tone down his graphical settings to low and make stealthed infiltrator look like HA with his shield activated. And second, when LA jumps from roof to roof, 300m away from you, while you're stealthed, crouching and not moving, then he suddenly starts shooting at you, then you know there's something wrong with the stealth.

    3)No, infiltrator is defined by his role-INFILTRATION, not half baked stealth mechanics. And if jepack or any other means of fast transportation is more helpful for infiltration than the cloak in this game, then why not? Heck, even grappling hook that was suggested by someone earlier would be infinitely better then the cloak.

    4)Point is, anyone with half brain will realize the moment he'll see hacked terminal on the map that there's an infiltrator and Sunderer somewhere out there. And if they know that it's there-they'll find it no matter where or how good you hide it. That alone makes hacking in it's current state situational at best.

    5)My bad, got caught up in 4 and basically combined two topics into one.

    6)Oh really? Engineer has tank mines and even non LA classes can flank the tank or approach from the rear, while Infiltrator can't do a thing to tank on his own. Oh yeah, he can hack the turrets, assuming he won't get blown in the back while actually using those. However here's the thing, those turrets are set in a way so that they could be used mostly outside of the AV shields and cannot target inside the base perimeter. Which also makes it situational as hell.

    7)Personal preference?! You have the guy in your sights and ready to shoot, only now you need to wait till pressing shift takes effect and your scope stops swaying, except by the time it does, your target takes off and runs for cover.

    8)It's not a personal preference it's a design flaw and a waste of time. Player should be forced out of scope mode automatically in order to reload, as it basically makes toggle aim function useless.

    9)It's not like I'm asking to remain cloaked while shooting. Heck, kick me out of stealth the moment I shoot and lock my stealth out for a second or two, or something. Anything would be better then locking out all the actions while stealthed.

    10)Backstab, aka silent kill has always been a signature move for all the sneaky archtypes. And you know what-if you manage to sneak up on a guy with him ignoring you-he deserves to die.

    11)Haha....It took me a whole ammo mag to kill a medic with bodyshots, up close, where there was no chance of me missing, so yeah, Beamer kinda stinks. You obviously haven't tried to use NC gun, it took me three/four body shots to take down other light assault the moment I started playing NC. And even RT burst-based Repeater is useful in CQC, where you don't need to aim downsight, just manage the recoil while ****** your fire button.

    Overall I'm not crying about Beamer, I just want different options, like that shotgun-pistol that used to be there, back in PS1.

    12)Personal preference? I am yet to meet anyone who enjoys his Ghost. And no, it's not "personal preference," it's a design blunder and it all boils down to simple two facts: long range weapons are sniper rifles, while mid-close range weapons are scout rifles. Bolt-action sniper rifle with iron sights is pretty much useless because you can't exploit it's range advantage. SOE should either give those rifles their scopes back or it should move them into Scout Rifles category. At least the later solution will prevent any further misunderstanding with those guns and people won't be buying those guns by mistakes.

    13)I'm sure you can do fine with it, but the problem is that you can do so much better at CQC with medic's or engineer's assault rifles. And don't make me laugh about data. There's no concrete numbers for this game. Even in-game stats shown on guns are either completely wrong simply make no sense at all. The only data you have is that of trial. So take medic's default rifle, wipe the floor with someone using that rifle and then make your own conclusion. I especially encourage you to use Artemis for VS.

    14)Claymore is useful, but costly on certs. And it's the only useful utility that Infiltrator has, with no choice whatsoever. Everyone and their mama have C4s, mines, flashbangs, smoke grenades and all other goodies to choose from, but Infiltrators have EMP and Decoy nades, and both of those are useless.

    Give LA hacking ability and I'm hopping over to LA, although I'm all up for Assault Rifle for Sniper rifle exchange. That way LAs will be snipers and Infiltrators will be able to actually infiltrate.

    I'm not trying to solo the whole base. I'm jumping on Deployment hotspots and I usually start hacking/taking out generators like no tomorrow. Problem is that Infiltrator is the weakest class when it comes down to CQC, so more often than not, I'm being forced into sniping because of that.

    I'd be totally cool if it were there. And not only do LA has C4, they also have flashbangs and smokescreen...Couple that with jet pack and kick-assault rifle...Well, like I've said before, give hack ability to LA and let's get this over with...Or just give both sniper rifle AND hacking ability to LA.
  15. iller

    INF needs climbing claws /w suction cups to climb straight up rock faces and base walls.
    Either that, or the Acrobat Ziplines from DCOU

    Clinging to, & Hacking enemy Tanks (while they're still inside them) would be pretty cool too, even if a bit too "Ghost in the shell'ish".
  16. SquirrelWizard

    I think one of the big issues the Infiltrator suffers from is the transition from field, to courtyard, to interior.

    In the field, you typically want a high powered scope for accurate shots over long distances. As you progress into a courtyard you need a medium range scope for clearing roof and nearby hills. Once you get into the interior, any sniper style scope becomes a hinderance more than a help. Infiltrators need an alternate primary weapon, likely a baseline scout rifle. This would justify the 1k cert requirement for the unlockable scout rifles, and give the infiltrators more flexibility when it comes to the field of combat.
  17. deusex2

    Or the devs could just give infiltrator assault rifle, or *gasp* give us back our shotguns.
  18. TribbleFluffer

    shrugs, last time i went base spelunking i was in beta with my handydandy shotgun. leapfrog some rocks and buildings then come up behind the group im after, uncloak start shooting kill like 4 or 5 of them and then get killed. i do know its gona be a suicide mission, but then infiltrators arnt ment to go toe to toe with everyone else, their ment for recon, snipping and hacking/spawning stuff to use for your side
  19. TribbleFluffer

    i could imagine the "hack point" being on the roof.... i can also see them getting shot off the tanks alot so maybe a tempt shield pops up around them or somthing....still hacking a tank while someone's inside seems waaay OPed unless like i said, you place the hack point at the very top infront of the MBT 2ndary turret, that way at least there's a chance the hacker will fail and get shot up. Or at least add a warning to the occupant, like "[!FIREWALLS BREACHED!]" brackeded in the lower corner or somthng.
  20. LachDiggityDog

    Infiltrator Is fine the way it is if you could shoot while cloaked it would be soo over powered