Idea to make Advanced Shield Capacitor / Suit slot items more useful.

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by NeonSonic, Nov 29, 2019.

  1. NeonSonic

    how about 20% small arms resistance on it, that way there would be the heavier nanoweave armor where as the shield capacitor would be more effective for infantry fights as opposed to just a shield recharge and would make infantry fights more fun since there would be less downtime if u got shot and 1on1 fights would be more fair and create more diversity across the suit slots.

    If u ask me, u could take it a step further and do this. 20% small arms resistance on all suit slot items, that means ammo bandoliers, grenade bandoliers, etc. but for nanoweave increase the resistance of everything but small arms resist to 30% / 35% / 40% / 50% 1 of those your choice.

    Thoughts?

    Be constructive, its a simple idea, give ideas to make advanced shield capacitor / suit slot items more useful so players dont just run nanoweave for infantry or flak for vehicular battles.

    This would balance out suit slot items more and create more diversity instead of people just specializing in nanoweave for head to head / 1on1 battles to try and come out with that sliver of health that only happens with nanoweave armor.
  2. Demigan

    Current nanoweave already dominates the game too much and gives headshots a much larger advantage than they should. Because headshots bypass nanoweave it effectively deals 250% damage. This makes certain accurate weapons far more valuable and reduces the need to learn things like COF, damage falloff, effective range etc that makes the rest of the weapons so much fun.
    In effect it means that you need LESS skill to get superior results if you aim for the head with accurate weapons than if you learn to master all the necessary elements of less accurate weapons.

    A better idea is to simply remove nanoweave altogether and start upgrading and combining suitslots that are rarely used. At its core these suitslots should provide you with a change in playstyle, creating a more varied battlefield even if the same classes are used.
  3. IVANPIDORVAN

    No, just use resist shield on heavy assault or Symiont implant on other classes. Medic can sustain constant Symbiont gnaws with nano regen device while other classes can just equip Bionic implant. I am active user of advanced shield capacitor/bandolier, changes is not needed.
    • Up x 1
  4. DemonicTreerat

    Or just make it work like armor did in Planetside. Absorbs a flat amount from each hit that gets deducted from its own pool that when gone stops working until repaired. Less penalty for high-damage low-ROF weapons, body shots aren't so heavily penalized (then again PS1 didn't have the BS head shot "meta" and all the aimbotters it brings in), etc.

    Nah, why use something that was proven to work when some brainless moron can copy & paste a number and call it good because "Hey Battlefield and Call of Duty use this so it must work".
    • Up x 1
  5. DarkStarAnubis

    You need VAST amount of skills/muscle memory/sellf control to land consistently headshots in the middle of frantic battles.

    More accurate versus less accurate weapons simply increase the distance within which you can group headshots (and that advantage comes with a price tag either in DMG or RoF)
  6. Demigan

    And you need even vaster amounts of skills/muscle memory/self control to consistently use all the skills required for using less accurate weapons and that becomes worse in frantic battles as there's more factors to consider than "can I see the head and is my weapon accurate?". So I don't see your point.

    It's a common religion for people to deify the players who can do a lot of headshots. That's fine in a twitch-shooter where the gameplay is centered around this concept but in a game like PS2 where there's a ton of other factors thrown in that modify the weapon's effectiveness at different ranges that you can try to control and master it is a sin to glofiy just headshots. PS2's end-goal gameplay should be that every single weapon should be viable against any other player in the top, rather than the "headshots or go home" mentality that exists for good reason due to the extremely heavy rewards it gives.

    It's a point that just doesn't seem across no matter how many times I repeat it: Why should two players who put in the exact same time and effort in different skills be rewarded differently just because one picked the skill to consistently hit with headshots? Headshots should be a bonus, you can't expect a weapon that can only effectively hit the first one or two shots at the head and has to aim the rest at the chest to fail just because it can't consistently hit the head by default no matter how skilled the user is.
    • Up x 1
  7. DarkStarAnubis

    My fault, I always forget it is a waste of time to try to reason with you - never mind, just ignore what I wrote.
  8. Demigan

    Your fault is glorifying a single skill over all else.

    The only "reasoning" you've given so far is "but it takes a vast amount of skill to land headshots". Yes it does, but it takes more skill to do the rest of the skills you have to master with less accurate non-headshot machines.
    The other reason you gave was "Less accurate weapons simply increase the distance at which you can group headshots". Which is exactly the point: You are punished for picking them because they stop giving the 250% reward of headshots much sooner and you have to learn all those other skills to make the weapon work.

    So if you think that you were reasoning with me, you've quite literally given no single good reason for headshots to be as rewarding as they are. That's not reasoning in the slightest and you can't throw that in my face as if you did try to reason with me but that I'm the one who can't listen to reason.
  9. OneShadowWarrior

    Nanoweave is something that is the only thing that works, they should actually just remove it completely to really get the players to use the other items, but really who runs grenade pouches, munitions or even advanced shield capacitor on heavy assault as a go to? My guess is not often.
    • Up x 1
  10. DarkStarAnubis

    A simple way to make ASC more valuable would be to make it stack with the Survivalist implant. For engineers the cumulative effect would be borderline OP.

    However, aside from other considerations, implants never stack with other equipment by design.
  11. TRspy007


    It's true that in most cases, nanoeve armor is the way to go. I'd suggest another approach however. Give a 20% HEADSHOT REDUCTION on all armors. Nanoeve armor can keep this benefit and add 20-30% damage resistance to body shots. Headshots are currently too powerful. This would help make snipers 2 hit kills, because let's be honest, being instagibbed by a dude who's nowhere near your range and can also cloak isn't very fun or fair.

    Would also help noobs a bit against vets.
    • Up x 2
  12. IVANPIDORVAN

    Please stop suggest ********, you cannot buff or nerf stuff by nice round numbers like +5 10 15% 50% of something
    I saw how balance of one game been completely destroyed by it's own devs by simply making such dumb nerfs\buffs.

    let me give you few examples: We see how GUNNAME underperform a bit, let's say it is one with 143 damage model, so we decide to BUFF it's damage by 10%. What gonna happen is what this gun now will require 8 bodyshots to kill nanoweave wearer while with old damage you need 9, but this is only inside it's max dmg range which is usually 10m
    1000/0.8=1250 effective health with nanoweave
    1250/143=8.74
    143*1.1=157.3
    1250/157.3=7.94
    but as soon as damage reach 156 this simply not enough to finish target 156*8=1248hp - 2hp left or 1 additional shot required

    did you ever wonder why we have same damage numbers on every gun? 112 125 143 167 200 - is most common ones. It's called damage tiers. You also probably never notice what weapons intendent to be close range have 2 or more tiers of damage degradation over range, also they usually have minimum 112 damage, no matter whats their max dmg 143 or 167. The secret is 125dmg is cap what still allow you to kill some one with 4 headshots at any range. but "LET'S APPLY 20% RESISTANCE ON HEADSHOTS IT CERTAINLY NOT GONNA BREAK A LOT OF GUN NO NO NO" am i get you correct?

    or did you ever notice what 200dmg model need 7 body shots against nanoweave armor and 5! bodyshots against everything else?
    200*0.8=160dmg
    160*6=960 - not enough to kill
    This damage model suffer twice from this 20% res, so can you imagine how every ******* allert you gonna be stomp by NC cuz u know, it's their pretty common damage model. I think you don't, cause all what i can see is suggestions like "20% or 30% or so.." THIS UNCERTAINTY IS UNACCEPTABLE. YOU CANNOT SUGGEST STUFF LIKE THIS. ALL POSSIBLE SITUATIONS MUST BE PREDICTED AND PRECALCULATED, DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT?

    Whole gunplay balance is built around nanoweave, it's work so well because it's impact to gameplay been precalculated. It always give you +1 bodyshot, sometimes +2. But, for example, you can break 143/167dmg weapons by equiping auxilary shield so they be not able to kill you with 3/4 headshots (for 143 it's even mean +1 bodyshot aswell) and 125dmg no longer finish you by 4 headshots, this 50 shield health looks so insignificant, but break balance completely.

    As i said earlier every class can equip symbiont + bionics, medics can use just symbiont, heavy assaults havevalternative resist shield which is not stack with nanoweave so it's sort of useless on them and you can equip advanced shield capacitor for example. I personally do exactly what i said, but in this thread it seems like people just searching for excuses and not solutions. "oh nanoweave so bad let's remove it"/"let's add resistance on every foking suit slot what can go wrong?"
  13. Johannes Kaiser

    Why so aggressive, our good terran there just made a suggestion with numbers not to be taken as final in any way. First step is to take an approximate round number and adjust form there. Never seen anyone anywhere say "okay, we put this crate precusely 1.4125 m at 25° to true north from my position". It would be "put it there".
    • Up x 1
  14. adamts01

    Nanoweave just needs to go. Bringing the headshot multiplier down to a true 1.6-2.0 to put it in line with the industry would be the single greatest change for new player retention, as well as letting probably 80% of the community have more fun while still rewarding skilled headshots.
    • Up x 1
  15. Scroffel5

    You do realize that it doesn't make sense to buff nanoweave if you want a buff to the advanced shield capacitor, right? Even if this buff is applied to every class, it only helps in survivability. It just makes everyone harder to kill, but it doesn't help the advanced shield capacitor directly. Also, do you know how hard it is to lead a target for a headshot from a range where you are safe? That would be around 300 meters, because you aren't safe anywhere before that. Making them have to headshot you twice and body shot you 3 times would be unfair to the people who have practiced so much and tried so hard to get those headshots reliably.

    Instead of trying to nerf or buff things, why don't we look for ways to make other things more effective? I know there are good uses for everything, and they are less situational than everyone things. A whole squad who has grenade bandoliers and either concussion, flash, EMP, or even just frags can do serious damage to a point hold, maybe even disrupt it. I don't have any ideas to make the ASC better, but we should focus on that. I notice that on every popular post, people get off task and comment about things that don't pertain to the post.
  16. TRspy007

    Yup, and I could say you're guilty of doing so this time. If you read the guy's original post, he (NeonSonic) says "If u ask me, u could take it a step further and do this. 20% small arms resistance on all suit slot items, that means ammo bandoliers, grenade bandoliers, etc. but for nanoweave increase the resistance of everything but small arms resist to 30% / 35% / 40% / 50% 1 of those your choice.

    Thoughts?

    Be constructive, its a simple idea, give ideas to make advanced shield capacitor / suit slot items more useful so players dont just run nanoweave for infantry or flak for vehicular battles". So yeah, I think I was pretty much contributing to the "Idea to make Advanced Shield Capacitor / Suit slot items more useful" discussion; that's my humble opinion at least.



    Not really a buff/nerf to nanoeve, since it would stay the same, except it would benefit of the -20% headshot damage reduction that all suit slot options would now have by default.

    If you really want my idea of the advanced shield capacitor, I would say maybe add a +50% shields on a headshot kill or something similar, to allow the player to return to an engagement even faster. Overall, advanced shield capacitor is pretty decent the way it is. Sure, maybe tweak it so it reduces the effects of EMPs but we already have implants that do that...
  17. TRspy007



    So based on your name, I'll overlook your English grammar and spelling mistakes, and give you the benefit of the doubt that I am not addressing a 4 years old.

    First of all, CALM DOWN. This is a thread about suggestions on a forum the devs never read. Stop acting like the changes are gonna appear tomorrow, and taking everything in a literal sense. If I was suggesting something concrete, I wouldn't suggest 20-30% (which is a range) instead of a flat number.

    Dude you seriously have some mental issues. The whole point of the forum is to discuss interesting and FLEXIBLE ideas, because what works for one person may not for the rest of the community. The community is supposed to help suggest modifications based on their situations, because we don't all work for DBG, it's not my job, nor do I have the time to thoroughly look over EACH POSSIBLE SCENARIO. Sorry dude, if you can do that, gg, but we're not all superhumans. Plus that's a rule I've never read in the forums, so I'd like to see how you came to that conclusion.


    Sure, the damage resistance can be reworked so it affects all models equally. And no one said nanoeve is bad, we're suggesting these changes because nanoeve is the most viable suit slot for 98% of scenarios.

    As for mentioning exceptional implants symbiote and bionics, you're acting like everyone has access to them, and that the ones that do actually equip them. Basically, you are using your loadouts to validate what you are saying, instead of looking at "ALL POSSIBLE SITUATIONS" like you suggested earlier. Pretty hypocritical of you bud.
  18. Scroffel5

    Still just makes every class more survivable. If you don't tweak the damage models of the gun, then that just means that every class is harder to kill and the TTK of every weapon goes up. Instead of doing that, you could just make nano-weave less useful or ASC more useful. Make nano-weave less useful by giving less of a damage reduction, and make ASC more useful by giving it some damage reduction or speed boost or something. Giving a -20% headshot damage reduction just makes everything take longer to kill, which was the problem most people have with Planetside. They say that it takes too long to kill in a normal battle scenario when you are missing shots.

    Making the TTK longer doesn't do much except probably make everyone less survivable at times and more survivable at others. When you are shooting at someone from range or people behind cover, it is gonna turn into pure cancer because you can't get kills on anyone. Say your gun does 150 damage. It'll take you 7 shots to kill someone. Now lets do a 20% reduction. Now you are doing 120 damage and you need 9 shots to kill, which depending on the amount of ammo you have in your gun, that means you are using up 1/3 of the mag to kill anyone with base damage. Now, with nano-weave being even more effective at 35% reduction, you are doing 97.5 base damage. Now it takes you 11 shots to take down a nano-weave target. If you don't miss, you can only take down 2 guys with a 30 round mag while only doing base damage. It makes headshots even more important, but not that much more since there is a reduction on that too!

    That is why I say we should just buff or nerf things individually. Nano-weave only becomes more effective here. If everything is buffed, nothing is.
    • Up x 1
  19. TRspy007

    I literally said to keep nanoeve the way it is, except tweaked between gun damage models. The only extra thing would be the +20% hs reduction that would apply to every suit slot, not sure where you got a 35%. The point of this is to make other suit slots more viable, since nanoeve is currently the best option, and it doesn't even do anything for headshots!


    And I never heard anyone complain about stuff taking too long to kill in Planetside 2. Most ttks without headshots are under .7 seconds. Heashots further reduce this by half. Add this to ping + server problems, most people die as the first bullet hits them. If you can't kill a target with your full mag considering you usually need 6-8 (bodyshots) to kill someone; I'm sorry dude, but that's on you.

    I really think you should reread the conversation, cuz half the things you said don't make sense or even relate to the topic.
  20. Scroffel5

    Right there is where you said it. Again, if you buff everything, you buff nothing. You said to give a 20-30% resistance to nano-weave and you said a 20% headshot reduction to every suit slot.

    Also, you are very biased against snipers for some reason. I rarely die to being sniped, and if I do, its because I got shot at from someone else too! Yesterday I died to getting sniped once, and that was because I was getting shot at by a MANA AV turret, they were rushing us, I was trying to change positions after being spotted, and I got stuck running up a hill. I had heard the sniper shoot at me because he missed a few shots first anyways! That is the way you can tell where most snipers are. If they miss, you just trace the tracer. Also, WHAT KIND OF BOLT ACTION SNIPER RIFLE IS A 2 HEADSHOT KILL? That means everyone should just switch to a semi auto, because it obviously doesn't matter if you hit the head anymore! You have to kill them faster now!

    You also don't seem to get that you can't nerf everything because of server problems. If the server is broken, suggest they fix that, but don't suggest they nerf things just so that you don't die when a guy has chained 4 headshots on you due to practice and hard work, or just sheer dumb RNG. Also, in other games, it only takes like 3-4 body shots to kill someone and you die to headshots even quicker. That is why it feels to them that it takes forever to kill someone, and I am only relating what I have been told. If you haven't heard that, alright then, but I have. You will not make other suits more useful by buffing their resistance to small arms. You just make nano-weave less useful because of it. Then all of the damage numbers are out of wack, and you could have just changed those damage numbers if you didn't like them, and then just nerfed nano-weave.

    I rarely die to the first bullet hitting me unless they chained headshots. I have this thing called situational awareness, and I am also not standing still, as you seem to be in every single one of your "I just got killed" anecdotes.

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