[Suggestion] How to fix vehicles by using more combined arms co-op

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Thesweet, May 8, 2020.

  1. Thesweet

    Vehicles are broken in many ways in this game. It takes far too many people to man them if you want to scale up to things like bastion carriers. They are also many types added for diversity but they are all very similar in their roles and weapon systems. They all have been nerfed especially in the high explosives department.I propose by adding in more combined arms it will benefit both infantry, vehicles and air in the following ways:
    1. Infantry's control over vehicles and air which are in essence support usings for the infantry (based on Monash's original combined arms theory in WW1)
    2. It will help coordinate forces for platoon leaders by adding in layers of command
    3. It will remove the need to build static and unused player built bases by adding in command points making the game more dynamic
    4. Give vehicles a distinct role in battle and give some unloved vehicles such as the dropship a real purpose
    --Unit Changes--
    The changes needed to ESF aircraft are:
    1. Can no longer see ground targets directly
    2. Can no longer hover and fly at much faster speeds (maybe double what we have now)
    3. Land at pads by entering a landing vector whereby you have the opinion of an auto-repair and rearm or leave the vehicle
    4. Nose radar for ESF with AA missiles so you can detect and lock onto aircraft in a cone (not omnidirectional) in front and can maintain a lock for the long/medium range radar based AA missiles
    5. nose radar shows lead markers for any aircraft in the radar
    6. All current weapon options for ESF removed and replaced with:
      1. ECM generator (can be used to counter ground radar AA weapons). AUX
      2. JDAM's (larger explosive radius then ATGMs and won't track targets). AUX
      3. ATGM. Can track targets but has more damage to a singular point. AUX
      4. Anti-radiation missile. Gives the craft the ability to see and lockon to ground based radar. AUX
      5. Short range AA missiles. Use infrared and can be countered with flares. AUX
      6. medium range AA missiles. Can be countered with both ECM at longer ranges or flares once it gets close. AUX
      7. Long range AA missiles. only countered with ECM. MAIN
      8. Ground attack cannon. does significant damage to infantry and moderate damage to tanks.
    7. ESF get access too two auxiliary weapon (AUX)
    8. Long range AA missiles takes up two auxiliary weapon (AUX)
    9. If ground attack cannon (MAIN) is used then only one auxiliary weapon (AUX) can be used
    10. when doing a ground attack in all the targets in the target designation are highlighted for easier detection with lead markers. Any ground units outside of the designation are not seen by the ESF but can be hit if they are unlucky.
    The changes needed to Liberators is:
    1. Can no longer see ground targets directly
    2. Can no longer hover and fly at much faster speeds (maybe double what we have now)
    3. Land at pads by entering a landing vector whereby you have the opinion of an auto-repair and rearm or leave the vehicle
    4. Remove the middle and rear gunner
    5. Pilot gets an aiming reticle and just need to line up the bombing vector and can partially miss or miss all together
    6. can load up with either:
      1. Napalm. deadly to infantry and a little damage to tanks
      2. Explosive bombs. Does damage to infantry and tanks
    7. Lib would be considered as a light bomber
    Changes to the Galaxy are:
    1. Can no longer see ground targets directly
    2. Can either drop troops or:
      1. Mount the heavy bomber module and would be much like a liberator but with bigger bombs and more of them (can bomb larger patch of ground)
      2. mount an AWACS system that allows for the long range detection of aircraft and relay that info to ESF with long/medium range AA missiles to allow targeting. It also allows any ESF and Lib to see aircraft locations within the AWACS radar range. It can also detect and alert ESF and Liberators of ground based radar AA and comes with ECM
    Valkyrie changes:
    1. Can still see ground units
    2. more mobile
    3. when under 50m altitude it becomes hard for medium and long range AA missiles to hit due to ground clutter on radar.
    4. able to mount ATGMs
    5. able to mount short range AA missiles
    6. able to mount targeting computer
    7. when using targeting computer it stabilizes the gunners aim and locks it onto a reference point on the ground as long as the gun can reach that point of reference. It also calculates the offset needed on the gun to hit that reference point to counteract the movement of the Valkyrie
    8. can only load either ATGMs, AA missiles or targeting computer along with the nose gun.
    All air units gets flares with enough to counter 5-6 missiles.
    Skyguard changes:
    1. flak cannons removed and replaced with radar system and either:
      1. gun system for closer engagements and medium range AA missiles.
      2. Long range AA missiles
    2. It can link with other AA units such as the harasser to provide radar data on air unit locations
    3. Missiles can be set to launch in a steep arc to get over initial hills if lock data is given by a nearby Skyguard that is dead ground to your radar.
    4. Artillery system that uses nearby SL/PL targeting data
    Harasser:
    1. remove flak cannon and add in short range IR AA missiles
    2. mortar system that needs infantry targeting data
    MBT:
    1. does more damage to other vehicles then it does now since it has a larger cannon
    2. rather than a secondary gunner with top mounted gun have modules:
      1. Active protection system module. Intercepts missiles and rockets in different ways with varying success. The MBTs main means of air defence against ATGMs is ground based AA and interceptors but the APS may catch an ATGM every now and again but ti would do well against slower ground based missiles, HE and HEAT rounds.
      2. Targeting computer module for lead markers
      3. command module. to allow nearby infantry to call in supports. allows the tank to call in mortars and gun runs
      4. UAV module that puts up a UAV so the tank can use remote targeting for the cannon. The UAV can be shot down with a new one up after a period of time.
      5. Mine deployment system module. select an area to cover with anti-tank or jumping jacks and the system with deploy a cluster of mines that can be seen my friendlies via markers but the mines will be indiscriminate with targets.
    3. Main cannon it no longer a single type of ammunition but will carry all 3 types of ammunition plus canisters.
    4. HE should be buffed again to make the MBT what it should be against infantry, a bunker busting support unit.
    Smoke for all ground units to try avoid ATGMs.

    Maxes:
    1. can be equipped with a mortar system that takes up both arm spots with less ammo then the Harasser and obviously can only be used outside. if used in side then the roof is going to block the shot and you are going to be standing directly under that shot
    Artillery:
    1. Two options here for arty:
      1. Can have the guns on vehicles and engineer artillery placements where by SL/PL can call it in if they are in fire range or
      2. No artillery placements or tank attachments and it just falls down and costs command points
    Orbital strike:
    1. called in by PL with command points
    bombing runs:
    1. called in by SL/PL. does not cost CP. Can be canceled and re-ordered to select a different target zone.
    2. when called in the designator selects a midpoint and then runs the bombing zone out lengthways as shown in green (800m) in the picture. The sizeof the area is determined by what aircraft drops the bombs. lib is smaller than the gal obviously.
    3. No need for ground units to be shown since the aircraft rely on infantry.
    gun runs:
    1. sme as bombing runs but they can see targets in the designated area and they are highlighted. can be called in by infantry
    ATGM:
    1. get lock on to designators laser and follows the unit it locks onto. If the unit pops smokes then the missile hits the last known location of the unit. called in by SL/PL
    JDAM:
    1. Called in like the ATGM but once released if does not follow the target movements. called in by any infantry
    Mortars:
    1. called in by infantry
    Command points
    1. accumulated over time as SL/ PL at a certain tick rate (PL get a larger amount per tick).
    2. Can be earned by achieving caps, objectives or squad kills.
    3. Could be banked into the outfits CP "storage" as a collective for later use or/and things like bastion carriers.
    These changes are not refined but if they were implemented and refined it would make aircraft and vehicles more relevant to infantry does to the combined arms cooperation and I think improve the command and leadership game overall rather then just being a zerg shootout.
    Image below shows bombing and ATGM designations an air unit would see and the orange being detected ground based radar
    [IMG]
    • Up x 3
  2. FLHuk

    You suggested changes to air that amount to a nerf.

    Nothing, I repeat nothing can be allowed to interrupt the natural order of things.

    Ground is to be farmed by air! This is the way.

    [IMG]
    • Up x 1
  3. Johannes Kaiser

    I support about any and all proposed changes to air at this point. Although I would like to know what you mean by "can not see ground targets directly", because if Liberators are to fill their shoes as bombers they need to at least be able to see where they have to aim.
    • Up x 1
  4. Pikachu

    This is not suggesting. This is idea venting. ;)
  5. Thesweet

    I say they don't need to see ground targets because I suggest giving air much more fire power then they have now but in the right hands they would be crazy OP and wreak the game. To make it work I suggest air cannot see ground units and that they rely on ground forces to guide them onto targets. To get your jollies from seeing kills I think a pokie style message system pops up saying kill 1, Kill 2, KILL 3; ever more dramatic for each kill.


    Hard to see in the picture because of the water mark but infantry would designate not a target but a patch of rectangular ground that would show up on all aircrafts HUD (because a grouping of bombs don't hit a singular area, they are dispersed in an area). They can then align with that bombing vector set out by the target designator on the ground. It wouldn't matter which way you bomb but if you did it in line with the longer side of the rectangle (or 180 deg of that line) then that would fulfill the designated needs better. In theory if the target designated a good patch of ground then you get more kills, but if you go in line with the short side of the designated rectangle then you could possibly hit your friendly line.

    The radar I propose can give you a better idea of the risk at your target as well in the way of interceptors and ground radar AA
  6. Thesweet

    No, I suggest a dramatic increase of fire power but that fire power is put into the hands of ground forces. I suggest bombs that do more damage over a larger area and ATGM that can lock and travel up to 1km. at the same time I suggest giving more counter to air from both ground and air that can be assessed with radar and linked system that give you an idea of what the risks are. If you see an enemy ESF he could be packing long range AA missiles (2km lock range) to counter ground attack; thus, you may need support, take a different approach or hope your ECM covers you
  7. Thesweet

    I also forgot to mention that AA missiles are not perfect. If you fire one at an aircraft whilst you are tangential to their flight (90 degrees) path then you have a very low chance of hitting where as firing whilst head on has an almost guaranteed hit. Angles in between have mixed results
  8. Johannes Kaiser

    That sounds like an odd solution, to be frank. Not neccessarily a bad idea, but it's definitely far outside the box. :)
  9. Pikachu

    By seeing you mean spotting right? Not invisible infantry.
  10. Thesweet

    invisible, not rendered, no longer there; take your pick. My experience is that air does not stick around to take out ground forces unless they are swarming the sky. In essence they are on their own layer of the game already; my solution will keep completely isolate them but bring them back into the ground game much more since release. No longer will they just sit up there dog fighting, they will have a reason to get into the ground game and that is information on the screen from ground forces for a brazen shoot and scoot. This will also make them an extension of ground forces and leaders an integral part of that link
  11. Thesweet


    if infantry see air/vehicles as an extension of their arsenal then they will be more accepted as something they need in the game
  12. LodeTria

    You'd have saved alot of time if you just said "remove aircraft" instead.
  13. Thesweet

    It isn't removing them, they will still be there. Ground can still see them and direct them onto targets. If you have ever played Wargame Airland battle then you would understand it is a much better model with air being as powerful as ever but their ability to solo throttled by the lack of vision and hover.

    As I have already said it is about changing their role from dog fighting to supporting troops.

    Daybreak could even add in coloured dust particles into the store to make money from the change
  14. Blam320

    Not being able to actually render and see ground targets takes things too far and, frankly, is where I'm willing to play the unrealistic card. While I'm all for changing the role of air such that it isn't a farming tool, there are some boundaries that shouldn't be crossed.
  15. Thesweet

    If fighter minimum speed is doubled its stop speed then you are going to have a hard time spotting targets without join multiple passes and that opens yourself up to interceptors, ground AA etc; thus, there is no point even seeing the ground. As for air being a "farming tool' I don't see much of it these days. Most infantry have lockon missiles, not like the old days when you could hover for minutes running out of ammo on the banshee and pods. Air is no longer a factor in ground battles
  16. Werkitten

    There is one problem with this huge list of offers. In fact, you are offering to make a new game with a completely different gameplay.
    In this regard I will allow myself to add the following suggestions to the idea:
    1. Change the game engine.
    2. Change the developer company.
    3. Change the game world to avoid copyright issues.
    • Up x 1
  17. Blam320



    You obviously haven't been active for some time. Because the situation you just described hasn't changed. Air still hovers around in a hex for minutes at a time, relentlessly harassing anything that moves on the ground with AA noseguns and rocket pods. Infantry lock-on launchers are mediocre deterrents at best; they deal very little damage, and on top of that most pilots use flares or vehicle stealth to give them a "get out of jail free" card to afterburn out of the hex and return when attention is no longer on them. And that's when people bother to use lock-ons to begin with; most attempts made by infantry AA to deter aircraft is met with a volley of rockets to the face, with no time to react and get a shot off due to the severe screen flinch and intense burst damage.
    • Up x 1
  18. YellowJacketXV

    I'm...getting a lot of Battlefield vibes from this.
  19. Pikachu

    And War Thunder vibes with those long ranges suggested.
  20. Naqel

    Instead of all that, you could just remove the AI noseguns from ESF's.

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