How often are you killed by a HE round?

HE just needs to be completely removed from the game.

It was a mistake in the first place and took them far too long to address, even though how obviously broken it was upon release.

Splash itself per sa has never been the problem.... .What caused the huge rage and complaints is there being little escape from it.

No door, no windows, just gapping holes in building walls, hell even the walls themselves were largely ineffictive due to the huge radius and bleed through.

It was way to easy for vehicles to sit at range and have a huge impact on base interiors, with very little risk. ( its still possible, but at least now you need a little aiming and not just derping in the general vacinity )

So Imo unless the real reasons that caused so much rage are addressed. Such as adding doors and windows, then HE should never return to even close to its formal splash radius.

Yea Imo splash and HE should be a huge killer .... OUTSIDE ... but not nigh on every interior of every base aswell... Which in the end was the underlying issue.

You could argue that weapon metrics are entirely different during alerts and I won't dispute that point. But what I'm discussing is something else. I'm not claiming that HE weapons aren't underperforming. They are.

What I'm claiming is this:
a)HE used to be effective against infantry and had power to spawnlock defenders. Total kill stats Chingles uses are misleading.
b)Infantry hates vehicle explosive spam more than infantry explosive spam because of KDR differences. Read my response to Chingles, I won't write all that stuff again just cuz you don't bother to read.

HE weapons are underperforming and in all likelihood won't get buffed because they are frustrating to fight against as infantry.

Another thing, tanks should go back to the ps1 model where the driver just drove and the gunner was separate.

If tanks went back to this mode, then yes, buff away and make it a liberator on wheels. But as it stands, one person, one vehicle with the ability to mow down infantry like bundles of wheat in a field is dumb. Anyone who thought the original model was fine is just in denial.

You're going to tell me that only a small percentage of players certfarm, directive farm, KDR farm, and so on? Come one now, you're not that naive, I know you're not. Don't BS me.

Actually you are right, it is entirely possible that weapon performance changes drastically during alert. I like your approach to gathering data.

But I wasn't discussing whether HE is underperforming. I was just trying to explain why infantry don't complain about mines/C4/frags even if they die more often to it than to HE cannons. What matters is not only how often some weapon kills you but also how often you kill it (the guy wielding it that is).

The only time a tank ever kills me is when I'm being prominently stupid; like intentionally running up to tanks and zig zagging in front of them for the fun of it. I do this occasionally without mines or C4 because it's hilarious to make a tank panic as an Infiltrator. But actual death deaths, only if a tank catches from from a distance and from behind while I'm shooting at someone else.

That's going to be hard to gauge. For example, a HE user may get 3 kills before going down. But then he's done. A 3.0 KDR sounds great, as most infantry weapons sport a 1.0-1.3. But where were those kills made? How does it stack against HEAT and AP?

Also do we want all weapons to average 1.0 KDR? I can tell you, no one would pull vehicles if that was the case. Its just not as simple as looking at stats. Daybreak has their work cut out for them when it comes to nanites being used.

Its not as simple as spending x nanites increases your KDR by x percentage. You have to look on impact on base capture. For example, I can pull a Vanguard or Sunderer and drive around a base. Without firing my weapons, I can impact the base's defender's strategy. Many of them may not realize I'm just playing decoy. And their heavy assaults will be focused on rocketing me, their light assaults C4ing, and their Engineers trying to get turrets up. In the mean time my teammates could be moving in and slaughtering their medics and infiltrators and then catching the others off guard. That's just a simple example, but one that has to be considered for a developer point of view.

I do want to be clear that stats aren't 100% useless. They can give an idea of trends. But we have to use such data responsibly. Whenever I see a weapon system over performing, I look at how it affects me. Then I look to see why it does what it does. I look to see when it does that. As well as where. Then I try to see how much of an impact it actually has on the big picture.

This is a important thread.

Focus on the topic & question and please don't mix emotions into balance discussions or make things personal & don't focus on the past.

Agreed with this (I corrected it to what I think you meant). Saying infantry farms more than tanks based on total kills is bad, simply because infantry is easier accessible and for most of the weapons named either costless or are used when you are sure you get some kills. Tanks also have to spent a lot more time fighting other tanks, do a lot more driving around and repairing and in the meantime 90% of the infantry will spawn and be fighting&dying in less than 30 seconds. It's not as if tanks do not score much much more total in vehicle kills than infantry.
This is one of the reasons why we should update KD and put stats like vehicle destruction in the spotlight, as people will get a wrong idea of the actual worth of things like kills and vehicle kills. When I take out 5 tanks, 2 Sunderers and get 1 kill... It doesn't feel as good as getting 8 kills in one good run, as the focus of most stats is on kills rather than overloading generators, taking points and destroying vehicles.


But I don't think that HE should be an assist weapon. I don't think that HE has a place in the game at all, it's just too bland and doesn't bring anything more to the table but whines. HE should be replaced by new AI weapons, preferably ES one's.

HE does have a place. Its the Anti Infantry tank cannon.

And people "whine" because of the mentality that modern FPS have taught people, Which is Infantry = Rambos.

So of course they get mad if anything kills them or what kills them isn't HONURUBU.

Vehicles actually DON'T have huge impacts on bases or Sit at massive ranges bombarding into bases.

I take it you really don't use tanks....................

You're right, I missed a word.

In any case, I think splash can be fine, the problem is we've seen it as lethal splash, and now non-existent splash.

The easier solution is just leave it broken or remove it (useless weapons are preferable to broken OP).... but there's a sweet spot if they care to find it.

It'd be bland. It'd be boring, but there's a place for it.

Not sure what they'd do as empire specific.

Honestly, I'd just like to see them add CoAx.... if you can see the enemy and you can hit them, with several bullets, then sure you deserve the kill (Or you could just AP snipe them of course... but that reloads, so coax is mostly for between reloads, or to preserve ammo when running low)

So simple.

Old HE though? hah. Frack no. These nutbags have lost it if they think that's comin back

Someone disagrees, THEY MUST NOT USE TANKS (or really, isn't just 100% in agreement.... He's the only one being reasonable here)

Infallible logic right there

Keep it classy Screen

You have been playing a different game than I have since Beta then .. Or are looking back with Rose tinted glasses ...

HE was nerfed for very good reasons .. One of those reasons was it's ability and it's impact on base / building interiors ( Not entirely HE's fault but base design ) ..

I mean they changed a whole continents bases and added walls to them because of vehicles impact on bases

If they want to "fix" infantry getting farmed, then they should Remove A point out of all Towers.

Also Bad base design + choke points + a massive scale game + PLAYER STUPIDITY/LEMMING SYNDROME makes anything seem "OP".

The Recent HE & HEAT nerfs were not needed, since they were not over preforming and post RR the pull rates never changed.

Reasonable? I can tell he lacks experience in certain areas.

So that's fewer players pulling the same amount ?

Since pops have dropped since the RR ..

No, that means that even post RR the Tank counts have never changed.

Also keep in mind tanks are usually fighting other vehicles now.


I really wish you would understand how HE & HEAT tanks played a role in the combat ecosystem & vehicle-infantry combat relationships.