[Suggestion] Heavy Assault is OP and needs a *big* change

1) It doesn't create problems. A LMG doesn't magically become worse because it moves at 0.5x ADS speed.

If you take 0.75 ADS off all the LMG's that have it without touching anything else on the weapons, it will not be the end of days.

If you notice in the Data the reason why the Orion is lower is because it gets phased out for the BG overtime.


2) SMG's on the HA class doesn't help the class or give anything to it & Balance wise it just odd for the HA class to have them.

3) Have you ever got killed by a G2A lock on RL in a Bio-lab? Thats ******* stupid & you know it.



These are balance concerns, valid ones aswell.

Those .75 have that aspect as part of their design simple removal does not work for balancing as you're redesigning the weapon this it needs reevaluated. So you can't simply go "oh it's .50 now" because that's a break in the weapon due to its design originally expecting that be it in other stats or cost.

The only real reason to use SMG on HA is because you can't afford a CQC LMG yet, and you're paying for it by losing range effectiveness, mag size, damage or whatever else between SMG and LMG.

As for RL so? Does dying to an AV grenade in a biolab as infantry mean they shouldn't be able to be thrown unless a max or vehicle is around?
That doesn't mean anything, how's getting smacked by a dumb fire only and different? Either way you were dead given if you'd die to a lock on you'd die to a dumb fire. Only thing you'd not die to is a single striker rocket. That does not make the lock on unbalanced it speaks more to how freaking powerful rocket primary play is against infantry targets in general and that isn't the fault of lock ons.

TR & NC's LMG's don't have 0.75 ADS and for 3 years they have been doing just fine.

An Orion,SVA-88 or BG isn't going to suddenly become "trash" without 0.75 ADS.

To imply that would imply 0.75 ADS matters, which apparently it "doesn't matter". But it "doesn't matter" to a point where every time its brought up about how it matters, its instantly responded to by saying "It doesn't matter".

Also the 0.75 ADS removal would happen to the NS-15M aswell.

So we are agreeing they really serve no positive point in being on the HA class.

Read the fire modes sometime.

Lock on = no dumbfire,lock on only.

Single shot = Dumbfire.


Also I'm talking about giving the ES G2A & G2G lock ons slightly better velocity(Increasing it to 125 m/s for both) in exchanged for removing the ability to dumb fire them.

Nothing in this game is so OP that skill alone cant beat it. Any average HA will die to an above average skilled player. All you need is an infiltrator and a knife and its HA for dinner if your good.

I used to play HA exclusively but by god they are boring as hell. Its like playing a tank in a raid, taunt hit, taunt hit, stare out the window...yawn. Most of the really good gamplay vids I have watched have been either Infil, Medic or LA. Especially LA.

Your sig is epic.

Now we know what vince looks like when he's getting head.

Remove medic guns because they are healers

Remove engie guns because they are rep slaves



No thank you.

Above average skilled players being much rarer than average skilled players, and typically running heavy assault because that's how they became above average skilled in the first place. Your argument - moot.

Here's the problem with the heavy assault versus everyone else:

It has an ability that can directly impact combat. The shield is useful IN combat. The LMG has TONS of ammo, and it certainly isn't junk ADS. Hipfire is the only drawback. The LA and Infil have pre-combat advantages, but when the bullets start flying, neither of these advantages are worth a $#!%. The heavy shield is akin to the LA having on-ground-moving hip fire accuracy while flying, and the Infil firing while still cloaked. These two factors would even the odds considerably, but the Engineer and Medic would still be left without any decent options, and people don't play support roles with the expectation of getting wrecked just because they picked support roles - Engineers have fun things to do beyond repairing and shooting. The Medic does not. The latter is the least used class for a reason.

In short, being a support class IS NOT a justifaction to render them incompetent in combat, and the HA being "built for killing" is not a justification for making it the defacto best at the job - that's so f***ing stupid from a design standpoint the guy that decided it was okay would and should never get a job at any other development studio worth it's salt. The game is dying, a large part of the reason why is most likely at the HA's feet. Everyone's only running around as one.

Sadly, reducing the heavy shield to just something that soaks damage without allowing the user to fire simply encourages the behavior of using it to run away. Instead, the shield should cap movement at 40-50% of base movement speed and deny jumping. In other words - sprinting does them no good with the shield active, and they can't hop into the air and pop a medkit without losing momentum (not that they could, because the shield is active.) They can just twerk in place looking pathetic. This should render the shield a purely offensive only tool instead of some cheap K/D preservation tool so that, y'know... THE HA IS USED AS DESIGNED (according to all of the extremely biased, HA oriented players.) Also, to prevent the obvious player counter that would be deactivating the shield just before a jump then activating it again before landing, have it cost a little energy with each activation. Let them burn out real quick.

Now, the other classes bring nothing over the HA to the fight except maybe hip fire accuracy. Hipfire is great on a carbine... rifles not so much. In fact, rifles are crap. They are not god send guns. Pure HA's that haven't spent more than 24 hours as a medic think they're god send guns - they're not. They're carbines with slightly less recoil, one tier less damage fall off, and worse enough CoF to make hipfire a crap shoot even with a laser. Some exceptions exist, but DGC made sure recoil control was a royal PITA to keep them hip-fire only guns.

People want to balance the Heavy assault against the other classes? Going with further HA nerfage, DGC can start by taking away all .75x ads from HA, except maybe from the NS-15m (it's eclipsed by ES LMGs otherwise.) Have the LMG act as an even heavier class of weapon, further slowing their movement speed with it equipped (like .9x normal rifles/carbines.) Finally, like with the infiltrator's cloak, medkits do not work with the shield active. That's it, that's all that needs to happen to nerf the medkit-heavy spammers. They can spam medkits and be vulnerable to connected shots, or opt to simply eat damage with their shield, but they can't have both.

But even with these nerfs,. the HA is still at a combat advantage. The other side of the problem is that the carbine and rifle wielders have no built-in advantages beyond hip fire and reload speed - they don't have the extra ammo in the magazine, they don't have extra effective health, they don't have extra speed worth a damn in an exchange of fire, and DGC should really represent that last one.

Dodge incoming fire instead of soaking it.

Give every carbine and rifle .75x ADS without crippling their moving ADS CoF. This extra speed is to represent the lighter armor and weaponry the non-heavies use. The "assault" class weapons (TAR, NS-11a, etc.) go from .75x ADS to .875x ADS. Carbines keep their exceptional hip fire accuracy and only drop a single damage tier by default. Rifles DO NOT drop a damage tier - they are fully effective at any range. Tighten hipfire of assault rifles to be on par with carbines. Hipfire ADADAD is one of the only real counters a non-heavy has versus a heavy. This counter only works if their weapons are accurate enough to actually hit anything with any reliability.

Finally, SMGs have full 1x ADS movement, and their CoF never blooms. Yes, this means the heavy will also have these advantages equipping the SMG, but then they still have to contend with rifles and carbines which are now more effective at all ranges and far more adaptable than either SMGs or LMGs.

An... erm... experimental suggestion might be attaching overheat mechanics to ALL LMGs, forcing more carefully paced bursts and limiting damage output.

Faster ADS speed is a bad thing.

Especially considering how this games infantry has no weight & acceleration/deceleration & inertia.

Not bad suggestions.

Embellishment is deceptive and you're not fooling anyone.

A lot of your post is either false (smg cof never blooms) or hype (Using situational instances and projecting them as absolute). You don't need to bs people and twist things to make people agree with you, that has the opposite effect and it is deceptive.

Fyi 9% of my playtime is spent as heavy.



I do however agree that 0.75% ads could go but only because i'd be happy to see the whiners shut up about it.

Okay.
I'll agree that HAs can have their LMGs nerfed, and their shields removed, therefore losing their ability to beat any other class in a straight up fight, IF...
Medics lose their medtools and healing aura.
Engies lose their repair tools and all their fancy toys.
LAs lose the ability to fly.
Infils lose their cloaking, lose their access to sniper rifles, and gain 100 health.

Game should be balanced then, right?

Head too stronk

I've watched it over and over

This is just wrong lol

Who doesn't like vince though eh?

Can we please get back on topic? This thread is NOT for nerfing heavy assault. This is about changing the role of the heavy assault to improve gameplay. I didn't make this thread to start a debate about the current viability of the class in how the game currently works. There's nothing logically wrong with having a class that is centered around killing as a main class, with other classes supporting it behind. That is the current game design but I just think that the game would be more enjoyable to all if heavy assault were changed to deal and resist damage in different ways.

The topic of this thread is not whether or not heavy assault should be nerfed and how it should be nerfed, this is about whether changing its role would improve the fun factor (Fun factor is valued over other elements) of the game, and how its role should be changed. So please stay on topic and stop trying to derail this.

In answer to your title: OP is not heavy assault and needs a big change.

But seriously, why don't you use HA instead of complaining you lose to it? Honestly, I did not read most of your wall of text, but I read the first few lines, and I agree: HA is better at the jobs it is made for than any other class. BUT, as I say to any new player that I can teach the game too, never get indulged in a single class, you're in a game where you can change your class at a whim, even while still alive, use it to your advantage!

Be HA when you go for head to head combat, be it against vehicles, planes, or infantry.
Be LA when you want to be sneaky about it, and still blow up maxes and vehicles (more efficiently than HA, often).
Be INF when you want to be real sneaky, and use your various tools to create chaos in the enemy lines.
Be MEDIC when you are there to support others, while still being able to destroy most of threats with an excellent CQC arsenal.
Be ENGINEER when you want to use vehicles, or farm resupply exp with ammo packs. Or destroy vehicles.

And mostly, don't complain that a class is OP against another, because it's not: You can always change your class and make the fight balanced again. THINK about a FIGHT instead of going always with the same mindset. Some bases are LA paradise, some its worst nightmare, these are challenges, not punishments.

Complaining that HA is OP is like infantry complaining that tanks are op while running in the middle of the indar desert, without cover of any sort.

Your title..........

Spoons are OP and too accurate at shoveling food into my mouth - forks need to be buffed to compensate
especially the Vanu and their 0.75ADS sporks

The VS would have sporks, wouldn't they?

You just summed up every defense of 0.75 ADS. It's so ridiculous it's amusing how they're still clinging to it despite the very obvious flaw in logic.

Just another boring HA is OP thread. The only thing about them is that they are too self sufficient. They carry too much ammo and have medical kits. Get rid of these, and all classes will be played more because a group of 10 HAs wont be able to do anything anymore.

I'd really like if the heavy have a riot shield/ frontside shield to help his team mates /or a shield only on the front of his lmg who cover the head only. And since it's a heavy he shouldn't run at the same speed and have the best flack armor in passive ability.