Heavies and there issues

omg one of these forums right? omg omg so new and a new idea omg omg omg, no for real though can the new company just ban these type forums complaining about heavies because people cant aim and take cover

ITS TIME FOR

MATH

Lets say we have a heavy assault using a CARV and a medic using a Terminus.

Lets say that each person was exactly equal skill level we will calculate bullets to kill for several situations (too lazy to calculate TTK at the moment)

Lets say each class got three headshots and a bodyshot and neither were running nanoweave.

Thats: 4 bullets for the heavy to kill a medic
4 bullets for a medic to break overshield and only do 300 DAMAGE to the heavies REGENERATING BLUE BAR

A 143 damage weapon with only headshots needs 4 bullets to kill against non heavy or non overshielded targets
a 143 damage weapon needs 6 bullets to kill an overshielded heavy

A 167 damage weapon needs three headshots to kill a non overshielded opponent
a 167 damage weapon needs 6 headshots to kill an overshielded heavy

a 200 damage weapon needs 3 headshots to kill a non overshielded tarfet
A 200 damage weapon needs 5 headshots to kill an overshielded target

A 650/700 damage weapon (snipers) needs one headshot to kill a non overshielded heavy.

A sniper needs two to kill an overshielded heavy

A 450 weapon (commie) needs two headshots to kill any target (kind of silly)
One against an infiltrator
a 334 damage weapon neds two headshots to kill non overshielded targets
a 334 damage weapon needs three headshots against an overshielded heavy

Almost double the number on each for bodyshots. Skill has nothing to do with it, if two players of equal skill match and ones not a heavy he will always lose. your shield is a crutch, accept it. youre not good if you play exclusively heavy assault (some rare exceptions apply) youre just relying on almost double HP and the best midrange and even best cqc weapons in the game

Lets say two bad players meet, ones a VS or NC light assault and ones a heavy assauly of any faction. The LA magdumps and misses a lot of his shots and a few hit and he now has to reload. the heavy misses a lot of shots but still has anywhere between 30 and 90 shots left. Your high capacity guns are crutches of the highest degree as you dont have to rely on accuracy as much with your IWINshield and 100 shot guns.

Baddy player is bad

Stay in drugs, don't do school.

Let's just say an infiltrator in some magic land where only 1v1's existed and mattered gets the jump on any class and it has a commissioner pistol. The infiltrator then kills them and they had no chance at all.

Nerf the infiltrator bro.........

That's the way it should be. This isn't freaking CS:GO, 1v1 means jack all in this game, so trying to compare on that basis isn't telling the whole story. Beyond that, each class has roles, stop trying to use every class as a heavy and use the other classes for what they are good for. I am almost exclusively medic in this game, and I have no problem with the way heavies are. They are supposed to be that strong, that's why they are called HEAVIES!
Rock is OP, Paper is Balanced ~ Scissors

This just in! The tough class is tough! More whining after this.

1v1 fights are quite common and yes, should heavies generally win

but heavies if they can react fast enough can easily survive ambushes and 1v2s or even 1v3s, granted the latter two are more dependent of the heavies gunplay

If a HA is surving an ambush or a 1v2 or 3, the problem is most definately NOT with the HA (it is either lag or the other players)

I didn't say they were uncommon, what I said is they mean jack all in this game, which they do. This is an MMO, and if someone is trying to take heavies 1v1 without being a heavy or a max, they are doing it wrong.

I've done that with my medic before, it's not an OP class that causes that, it's players who aren't very good (or were just having a bad run for whatever reason).

Medic: not meant for 1v1, can heal itself infinitely if it survives a battle and has some of the best weapons available in the AR's. Not to mention it's a crucial class for many team-tactics or even keeping uncoordinated assaults and pushes going by reviving any fallen guys, HA or otherwise.

Engineer: also not meant for 1v1, indisputable the highest value class when it comes to using vehicles so having it be good in 1v1 would be rather unfair. Has access to many useful traits, from large amounts of explosives to a variety of turrets that make it a versatile class. With the AI turret in the right spot you can even go toe-to-toe with MAX's (albeit due to MAX's low accuracy compared to other classes).

Infiltrator: in a direct 1v1 with equal skill he'll lose, badly. But that's why he's got these awesome abilities so he doesn't have to! SMG infiltrators will attest that Heavies aren't exactly pushovers, but you can mow down a few with a mixture of a bit of luck, timing, enemy tracking and skill. Not to mention that at long-range it might not even need it's stealth and can tear Heavies a new one without them ever having a good chance to fight back. Or the fact that they can steal turrets and not just kill infantry, but destroy some tanks or aircraft, as well as being valuable when tracking hostiles and possible attacks.

LA: in a direct 1v1 with equal skill this guy will lose of just about any other class. He's an engineer without all the gadgets and explosives and every primary weapon he's got available is available to other classes or other classes have better versions available.
Which is why it's good that it's got a jetpack, although that's about where his usefulness begins and ends. Capable of avoiding rough terrain, scaling obstacles, buildings and cover this class is build around taking the best position and gunning enemies down from there. Even standing on a roof will cause most of your body to be invisible while you have their entire body to shoot, as well as giving you the first strike in most situations.

So what does the HA end up with?
If he didn't have a shield to protect him in 1v1, it would suddenly be a close call based on weapon choice, luck and skill difference if you win a 1v1. It's tool is the rocketlauncher, great for AV purposes or 1v1 OHK's (see? doesn't need a shield to win), but seeing that a miss is detrimental to your winning chances and in any other battle than 1v1 you are screwed it's not a wise choice to go running with it alone.
It needs a shield.

I think Heavy shields are completely balanced. The only reason why it should be changed is because people do not like the current system and feel cheated by it. So another system that people do like should be found, while keeping the current balance.
It would be nice if people got a more variable class-choice due to such a change, rather than people going for Heavies most of the time.

Edit:
Heavies and (T)issues (please give some to other classes while they cry)

Looking at it from a PS1 perspective the PS2 HA would probably have a -10% to -15% base movement penalty & no shield, but a significant base toughness/hitpoint boost over all other non-MAX classes.

I don't honestly know if that would be better or worse though.

Why does the HA need to be that class that wins any 1v1 by default? Why can't it just be the class with exclusive access to heavy weapons? And their own unique grenades. And an overshield that helps breach rooms if you turn it on proactively?

Isn't that enough?

If you survive an ambush with a medic either you did something right or he did something wrong. 700 more hp is a larger margin for error than being able to absorb one more bullet thats not from a 167 damage weapon or higher. i was running around as a heavy a bit last night (sva 88, beamer, deci, adrenaline shield, mlgsticks, nanoweave, concs) and i could feel myself getting worse at the game as i moved around. my stats doubled. Personally, i dont care much about stats and i only use my kdr and hsr to tell how well im doing on a session based basis. Proof: https://www.planetside2.com/players/#!/5428275156776991937/weapons

Look at my kills/min on my SVA-GG (gun i was using) and me kills/min on my next highest ranked infantry sanctioned weapons (non sniper non shotgun non max). its almost double. my heavy assault SPM is only beat by medics (obvious reasons) and my light assault (air to ground farmer, not really proud of that)

Im not the best player in the world, but im far from the worst. generally my kuh durr is anywhere between 1.8 and 2.7 from session to session when im not sniping, my kuh durr while playing HA was 3.8-4.3, and i can tell you i didnt magically get better overnight.

I could understand if my stats jumped up slightly, by say 1 kuh durr point, as its to be expected on a class with more hp, but nearly double? Look me in the eye and tell me that a class that can match off against anything and beat off every other class without much effort is balanced. The only things that actually killed me without me ******* up majorly were other heavies when my shield ran dry, maxes that i ran face first into, and the occasional sniper when i was redeploying.

just remove nmg and adrenaline, buff resist. resist isnt as reactive and its proactive. if not remove them, lower hp bonus.

• Ambush
• Shoot straight
• Use explosives
• Gang up
• Be an HA for a day
• Any combination of the above
• No problem

• Face to face shoot out
• Missing with a lot of shots
• Going 1v1
• throwing ammo packs
• Telling your mum on him
• QQ forum posts
• Problem

In honour of this superb forum tradition of HA(te) posts I will use this weekend's double xp to play every class and d'you know what? I'll be equally average at all of them....as usual but in particular:

• I will rocket, C4 or run away from Maxes
• I will shoot or grenade HAs in the bum before they know I am there and then run away when I am LA
• I will shoot them in the head from 1,000,000 metres when I am sniper
• I will heal, res, supply and repair allies as a constructive alternative to suicide by HA or Max when engineer or medic
• I will pick on weakling HAs when I am in my Max suit
• I will fight everybody when I am HA, especially the weak and the injured
• Then I will go home in time for tea and medals
• It's a jungle out there (and not just on Hossin)

This HA whining is just silly.

If you want to fight toe to toe bring a heavy
If you want to flank, avoid obstacles (fly) and position play LA
If you want to sneak around play infil
If you like support, like healing you play medic (and dam nice gun to boot) or engie to drop ammo or repair vehicles.
If you suck play max (sounds like a lot on forums should be max all the time).

What is great about Planetside2 is you get to play how you want, don't cry for not playing to your strengths or because someone else chose the style better for the situation.

=============================================================================================

*In the past a sniper could 1 hit kill a shielded heavy. Didn't know they changed it. But then why shoot them if shield is up wait for it to drop, it doesn't stay up long and your way off hidden/safe. Sniper rounds ignored shield (maybe was a bug?)

*and i do think 500 is more reasonable than 700 (.3 latency = 3-4rounds from most guns) Get drop on heavy, assume he has godly reflexes, you are still on equal footing(if 500shield) with a better gun when he pops shield. Add in reaction time(.2) etc and most of time shield shouldn't matter anyway.

*if your an engie i suggest stickies, so many whines from HA that i sticky before they kill my engie. and typically i get their friends too.

A few questions there.

Shield-wise the NWG and Ad shields would need to be redesigned to work proactively (currently the Resist Shield is by far the best if you somehow force HA shield to be used proactively - and currently NWG and Ad shield work best, if not reactively, then at least turned on as close to the taking of damage as possible).

Heavy weapons? If you mean Rocket Launchers then maybe, if you mean LMGs, well really speaking ARs are pretty much as good (and arguably better). If you mean actual Heavy Weapons, whilst the Lasher, JH and MCG are good I'm not sure any are that good and are all situational.

HA definately don't win any 1v1 by default, they do win any toe to toe where DPS and time of firing is equal and 100% hits though, although Medics are almost equal (and at anything but toe to toe are probably at least equal with ARs and AOE-heal).

I don't think lowering hitpoints of NWG or Ad shield would really achieve anything, it would either be ineffective (to the current situation - so wouldn't satisfy nerfers) or it would still reduce NWG/Ad shield to pointlessness (which would be basically a daft change).

Remove them or redesign as proactive would be the only real options down that path.

Fair enough, but realistically you barely spend any time as Medic or HA (I dunno if you do on other toons, of course).

And the SVA-88 is a FANTASTIC WEAPON (only the Anchor and Betel are in its league) which IMO synergise best with HA and shield better than anything other than those two mentioned, where as your Orion KPM is much lower.

Also would your SVA-88/GG KPM sustain and be the equal of say you're MKV Surpressed if you had the same number of kills?

So I'm uncertain really what that really proves, other than if you spend 70% of your time as Inf you probably ARE going to get aggravated by HAs (and I think understand your position more now), as they are likely the hardest prey baring MAXs (whether you're using SMG, Sniper Rifle or pistol/knife), and that SMG Infs possibly get less KPM than HAs..... but that doesn't therefore mean they need a nerf.


If you pulled the balance so that SMG Inf were in fact equal toe to toe with HA, game balance would basically be broken IMO.

As my mentor said ,something is OP in this game cause a lot of players use it.Remember when everybody used pump action shotguns with medic 2012.Forum whined about them.In 2012 you never saw a thread about HA op but the shield was the same.Interesting right.
I was- am- and will be a HA.I was when it sucked, i am now ,and will be no matter cause its my style in any game.My friend will be an engi because its his style.
Change the movement penalty if you want .So put it on 50% ,not 25%. Or NMG 75% ,AS 50% and RS 25% or something.

We're going to go ahead and close this. Please feel free to use an existing thread to discuss the Heavy class.