Haven't Infiltrators Suffered Enough?

I actually have quite a few problems with the original post, I'll respond to the ones I'm iffy or against, and some that I'm glad were pointed out. Hope to see a response.

I never actually saw this as an issue. If anything, I felt it was balancing in that RIGHT direction. If we're talking about how you should be able to one shot kill anyone in the head no matter what, then shouldn't EVERY weapon be able to do that? Think logically here. Also, this gives people a chance to survive, and I see nothing wrong with that. I've been on both the receiving and giving sides of one hit kill mechanics.

Here's one I'm glad you mention, I can really tell when enemies do a double-take on me when invisible. Such an increasing problem with those who know the difference. Can't sneak around anymore, I'm always spotted, ALWAYS, I either have to out maneuver and escape or try my best at killing them. Which doesn't always work of course.

Considering Infiltrators aren't the only ones with AP mines, I wonder why you believe such a disadvantage is given to them. Visibility issues? Honestly, you might be placing them in the wrong areas.

Nothing wrong with firing again, never had a problem with that. The man it took two shots (which rarely happens, typically not a head shot in the first place) never knows. It would always be someone who sees the tracer. And rather then quoting your tracer bit, I think that tracers can be ridiculous. I would like it if it were an attachment of sorts though as sometimes in certain environments I can't see where the bullet is going.

My Lightning has it, too bad for any infiltrators really. I don't see the problem. But the Recon dart is a pretty bad tool and I wish I could just un equip it since I use it pretty much zero percent of the time. Might fire it off just for the heck of it though.

Balancing. Snipers, when done right, are an extremely dangerous opponent. It's best that it remains this way. Considering it's realistic in the first place. (Don't give me that it's all futuristic stuff, physics still apply!)
To add to this already considerable list, let's take a look at a few of the new implants;

Very little people use EMP grenades, probably because they're just not useful. And I don't see anything wrong with this implant since, well, people don't use EMP grenades enough for it to justify EMP Shielding's use. And taking into account the other implants being much better, so why even bother? Unless you can do more then one implant at once.

Or, it can benefit the infiltrator! Oh wow, no way!

I still feel, after my months of playing, that the Infiltrator is at one its most balanced points. Just remove/fix what I mentioned, or agreed with.

And that's all I have to say. Thank you for taking your time to read my response.

Right, lets begin. If you can't see the difference between a weapon that fires one bullet every few seconds and a weapon that fires many bullets every second, well I don't see any way to help you bar extensive re-education.

There are exactly two classes that use AP mines - infiltrators and engineers. Engineers also have C4 (capable of vehicle destruction and more reliable at killing infantry at objectives), and tank mines. Basically, out of all the classes we are the only class that actually relies on them - engineers can always switch to something else (most use C4 because of its dual capability) and the other classes don't use AP mines. Therefore, do you see now why this is actually far more problematic for infiltrator than any other class?

I had an argument with Astraka in another thread that was pretty detailed - him in support of the usefulness of the recon dart when scout radar was in play, and me (amongst others) finding it redundant. However, all participants in said argument still understood that the recon dart is pretty damn good and is not "bad" in any way (the cert cost to upgrade, however...). The only feature that makes it redundant (to the participants on the same side of the argument as myself) is that scout radar does the same job to the same effectiveness; not the fact that the recon dart is bad because it simply is not.

Snipers in real life rarely encounter sway - we'll get to that in a moment, but lets look at when and how they do encounter it when they do. Sway is caused by uncontrolled movement of the gun (and thus the scope). Guns are fairly heavy, especially sniper rifles, which means they actually require a fair bit of force to move significantly. This can be caused by nerves or a rocky platform - but it is actually not all that noticeable in the hands of a trainer sniper unless they are fatigued. Sway can also be caused by breathing (especially heavily); but this sway is simply up-down, up-down. There is no "figure of eight" sway in real life.

Now, lets look at why all that hardly matters - snipers rarely try to hold sniper rifles steady with their arms. Any decent sniper knows to use something that is inherently stable to lean the gun on. This could be a stand of some kind (fold-able bipods, etc), could be a decent sized rock, could be their knee supported by the floor.

Regardless, the point being made is that this mechanic adds a lot of randomness to the system rather than skill. It artificially lowers the effectiveness of snipers across the board. Yet, if you look at the statistics snipers fare poorly compared to any other class in the game.

I used to think the same, but this is wrong. The problem with nanoweave is not that it can stop headshots, but at the ridiculous short ranges it can do it. If it stopped headshots from like, ~100m then I would see it as fair, but right now NW5 can tank a headshot from like 40-50m which is ridiculous, a bolt action can only fire once per second.

bullethose: 10 bullets/sec, quick ADS full auto spray right off the bat, corrections on the fly, bodyshots are plenty fine
bolt action: 1 bullet every 2seconds, scope delay, sway, microsway even while holding breath, 20x smaller target you need to put your crosshair on before firing.

Snipers in general lack utility and suck *** and the issue with nanoweave makes them suck *** even harder as it forces them well into the full auto spray kingdom where they are shredded to pieces in 0.5s. Nanoweave also means 3 bodyshots with TTK north of 4s and that's assuming rapid perfectly accurate fire.
In other words no, snipers are underpowered and infs as a class trail all other classes hard in xp gains, somewhere around 0.7 of global average.

All other instagib options are easy mode 'hit any part of the body' all while having no artificial aiming obstacles. It's even easier to snipe moving people with prowler or AV base turret than with sniper weapon while not being at risk of being headshotted yourself by a countersniper.

happens quite frequently - in the worst case nanoweave will block you at 30m and if you happen to be close-midrange sniper you will be bumrushed rather sooner than later or shredded by full auto spray.

recon dart is awesome but you have to sink 1780c in it >_<

funny how physics also say 5inch sniper rounds not only destroy heads but also brick walls and bullets in general travel 2x faster using 20th century tech. Then there is common sense saying sniping is about hitting ONCE but hard.
Sniper rifles in this game are not hitscan AWP from counterstrike and they are overnerfed (rapid dmg falloff, nanoweave). Why can't we pierce light vehicles and ESFs to kill drivers/pilots like in BF3?

benefit with harsh penalty. Inf simply has to know what happens around him due to the squishiness and cloak of questionable quality. Unreliable darts = sadface.

Hi there, Dino. I'm glad you mentioned a lot of these points, hopefully it will give me a chance to prove to you and to others why these things really are issues that unbalance the Infiltrator as a whole.

Since this will probably be a long post, I won't reply to the things that you've agreed with me on. This isn't because I want to ignore what you have to say, it's just to save time and space.

Nanoweave unbalances the Sniper (I say sniper instead of Infiltrator because we're talking about BASRs here) for two reasons:

Firstly, bolt action sniper rifles are balanced around killing their target on the first shot. Plenty of different factors go into this balance. Let's take a look at some of the weapon stats first.


Muzzle Velocity

Muzzle velocity on most BASRs is between 500m/s and 600m/s, but for the sake of the argument I'll pull stats from the Parallax, which is the VS top tier BASR.

The Parallax has a muzzle velocity of just 650m/s. I use the word 'just' because this isn't much faster than most LMGs. The NS-15M has a muzzle velocity of 640m/s and can be upgraded with High Velocity Ammunition, further increasing projectile speed to outrun even the Parallax. The Parallax, on the other hand, only has one upgrade that effects muzzle velocity - the Suppressor, which decreases both projectile speed and damage over distance.

Logically speaking, BASRs should have the highest projectile speed of all infantry weapons in any game, however this isn't true for the majority of these weapons. Slow projectile speed means that - in addition to targets being able to move out of the way after you pull the trigger but before the shot reaches them, which is incredibly annoying. - leading a target for a followup shot becomes difficult, so it's important to hit their head the first time to make sure you get the kill.


Ammo Pool

Unupgraded, the ammunition pool for the Parallax is 40 bullets. Obviously, this means that the highest kill streak a sniper can go on, without using their sidearm or AP mines, is 40 kills. This makes every single one of those bullets precious, but every sniper, regardless of skill level, misses a few times in a deployment. Based on my observations on the battle field, I'd say that a sniper of average skill misses about 10 out of their 40 shots, so the highest body count the average sniper can achieve in a single deployment is 30. If half of these remaining bullets find their way to the head of a player using Nanoweave armor, that number tanks to 15.

15 kills is, let's face it, a little on the lacking side in terms of killing power. Snipers are designed to function away from the front lines, so we rarely have access to ammo packs or terminals once we run out of bullets. Sniping punishes impatient players by taking away a kill in the form of a wasted bullet, which is fair. However, Nanoweave takes this mechanic and uses it to punish patient snipers by taking away a kill, even though the sniper did everything right.


Fire Rate

The Parallax is listed as capable of firing 353 RPM, but realistically most snipers will be lucky if they can fire more than 2 rounds in a minute. Most other weapons in the game have a fire rate of twice this number and can realistically put out that much damage per minute, which means Nanoweave doesn't effect their performance as much. Snipers, on the other hand, can't fire blindly. We have to wait for an opening to take our shot, and this takes time (My kills/min for my Parallax is 0.4)



BASRs are given a OHK on headshot mechanic for a reason; they fire slow, aren't given much in the way of ammunition, and have a higher skill floor than any other infantry weapon in the game. But balancing around the OHK mechanic doesn't stop with the weapon stats alone.

Infiltrators always have, and likely always will have 100 fewer shield points than every other class. It takes far less to kill us than the other classes, which means that to reach our fullest potential as snipers we have to stay hidden.

A very large part of this comes from killing on the first shot, because the only witness to where that shot came from was your target, who is now face down in a pool of his own blood. Nanoweave doesn't just provide a chance to survive, it provides them with a chance to find the sniper who took the shot. This has a severe impact on our ability to stay hidden, and there are several videos out there that show a sniper headshotting a Nanoweave player who then turns around and begins shooting at the sniper's location.

This is made worse if the sniper in question doesn't use a suppressor. Going loud is, in my opinion, one of the worst things a sniper can do for themselves. The blip on the enemy's mini map is bad enough, but the sound of unsuppressed BASRs is unique to every faction and can be heard from a significant distance. This makes it extremely easy to echo locate snipers, and once you get close enough to see them appear on the mini map it's game over for the sniper.
The only way this is balanced is through the OHK mechanic. Again, Nanoweave disrupts this balance. In the real world there is a two shot rule to sniping; one shot and the enemy knows a sniper is in the area, two shots and the enemy knows exactly where the sniper is. This is no less true for unsuppressed snipers in Planetside 2.

Contributing to the ease of echo locating snipers is the sound of our cloak. In my experience, I can hear an enemy sniper cloak from as far as 90 meters away. Yes, at that range it is impossible to hear over the roar and din of battle, but snipers are rarely found on the front lines and chances are it's a bit quieter where they're at. Even if they use a suppressor, most snipers toggle their cloak from time to time. Personally I do it after every single shot and while I'm reloading. I know the sound of my cloak has gotten me killed before, especially when I'm behind enemy lines. So, when our primary method of staying hidden is also, in the most bizarre of paradoxes, a large contributor to giving us away, what do we have to make up for it? Our OHK mechanic, of course.


I could probably find more reasons why sniping is balanced around OHKs, but this is already going to be a long post so I'll leave it at that and move on to the second reason that Nanoweave is an issue.

Ultimately, it's not as much about taking our OHKs away as it is about the functionality of Nanoweave. Sniping takes patience, skill, and a little luck to pull off in any kind of significant way. What does Nanoweave take? Certs. That's it, just certs. You cert it up, slap it on and go. It is a hard passive counter to an active skill based mechanic. What this means is that no matter how skilled the sniper is, and no matter how terrible the target is, Nanoweave will always save him from being OHKed on a headshot. Always. No matter what.

This is not true for any other class vs Nanoweave; if a player with Nanoweave goes toe to toe with a player with any other suit upgrade, and the Nanoweave player shoots entirely at the chest while his enemy puts every round into his head, the Nanoweave player will die every single time.

Snipers, on the other hand, get one shot, not thirty, and that one shot will be blocked by Nanoweave every time. This, in my opinion, is where the core of the problem truly lies. Nanoweave throws off our class by ignoring the mechanic that makes Sniping balanced, but it's even worse that it's a passive item that requires no active skill to use on the part of the player. That means that it has no downside, no weakness that snipers can exploit to regain our effectiveness. It's a hard counter, and the only thing snipers can do about it is move in closer, which is exactly the opposite of the point of playing a sniper in the first place.

Technically you're right that Infiltrators aren't the only class with AP mines, but there is only one other class in the game with access to them. The Engineer. That's right. The class that has access to C4, tank mines and med kits. Before the AP mine nerf I rarely saw Engineers sacrificing their other utilities for AP mines, and I never see it now. This makes the AP mine nerf more direct to Infiltrators than anyone else, because the only other class who can use them has a plethora of other, better options.

Additionally, AP mines are the Infiltrator's only offensive utility, where every other class has C4 as their only offensive utility. The old adage of 'The best defense is a good offense' goes double for Infiltrators and their AP mines. They're not just dropped at random for free kills, they're placed carefully to cover a sniper's back so that no one can sneak up on them without triggering it. They're placed to lure other players into a trap. They're placed behind turrets so that when the turret is hacked and the operator pops out, he lands right on the mine to prevent him from retaliating.

AP mines are an important part of the Infiltrator's game play, no matter if you use an SMG, BASR or scout rifle. The AP mine nerf(s) have made it so that carrying med kits is often a better idea than taking AP mines these days. Make no mistake, it has directly hurt our performance more than any other class.

The problem isn't that you have to fire again, the problem is that anyone who is attentive to damage feedback can instantly narrow down the location of the Infiltrator. At this point even if you do get another shot off on him, even if he does die, he still gets a second confirmation via second damage feedback of where the Infiltrator is. If he really wants to, when he redeploys it wouldn't be hard for him to take the knowledge that he gained in his previous life and hunt the Infiltrator down. This happens to me a great deal of the time, and as I've said before the Infiltrator is a class that's balanced around remaining hidden. Improved damage feedback is an attack on that balance.

On the subject of tracers, I think that a tweak is in order. Either every other shot fired should be a tracer, or one shot per clip should be a tracer. As it is right now every shot is a tracer, which is ridiculous, especially at night.

Scout Radar isn't just a problem because it takes away the Infiltrator's utility tool and gives it to everyone, it's a problem for Infiltrators and especially snipers because of how spammable it is and because it detects stationary targets.

As a sniper if someone shoots a recon dart at my location I freeze up. I don't move, because I know that by not moving I stay off that radar. However, this doesn't save me from another passive, effortless cert sink. I have found so many amazing hiding places in this game, but all it takes is one lightning or one ESF with scout radar passing near me to light me up for their whole faction to see. At that point there's nothing I can do but die, since I have no way of knowing until I'm being shot at that someone's scout radar is lighting me up.

The randomized scope sway isn't so bad, but the increased scope shake is horrendous. Previously if there was a vehicle parked ten or so meters away that was getting hit by rockets a sniper's scope wouldn't be as effected by it. Now it bounces around like a kid in a bouncy castle, making seeing, let alone taking shots, ridiculously impossible.

The worst part of this is it's triggered by something that doesn't effect snipers at all. If an MBT pulls up ten meters next to me and starts getting hammered by rockets that's his problem, it shouldn't be mine as well just because he's in proximity to me.



Now, as for the implant responses. Keep in mind that these implants have been scrapped, so the following debate is, well, pointless.

The current usefulness of the EMP grenade wasn't the issue. What would have happened in the future if EMP grenades got a buff? Everyone would have switched to this implant, which would have completely negated that buff and kept EMP grenades in a state of uselessness.

Sensor Shield is something that I believe should still make it into the game, but NOT in the way it was proposed before. I believe it should provide immunity to Scout Radar only, but Infiltrator radar tools would still detect players using this Implant. The reason is it would help to add balance to the Scout Radar vs Recon Dart issue. Right now scout radar is better in so many ways. If there was an implant that had an impact on scout radar but not recon darts, that would go a long way to bringing the Infiltrator's utility slot back in line with that of the other classes.

A lot of dedicated Infiltrators would tell you that the class is at one of its lowest, most unbalanced points right now. With the Infiltrator update right around the corner we hope that a lot of these issues will be at least given a band-aid, if not completely fixed. For example, the Straight Bolt attachment might go a long way to providing a suitable counter to Nanoweave. It depends on the drawback they give it. As for the other issues facing the class, we'll just have to wait and see.

P.S. - I apologize to everyone in this thread for the wall of text. Hopefully it isn't too hard to read through.

Alright my turn. If I didn't respond to something, it's for sake of saving space.

I don't see what you're trying to say. Other then over-complicating sniping. Despite its already existing complication I don't see why you're saying this. I'm a well able sniper.

So far, in my three datas. Each one specializing in one class. I have Medic, Infiltrator, and Engineer. The Infiltrator is significantly the most rewarding. By far.

I don't see your point. Again, any gun could or should make a one hit kill head shot. In a realistic setting.

I always thought the same thing when I saw an... ESF. Which I assume is light aircraft. I'm not familiar with Planetside 2 acronyms.

I don't see how the difference is relevant. Unless we were speaking of the in-game weapons. Which I was not. Maybe you need re-education in reading.

You did mention supports and bipods. That is exactly how they keep it steady. You aren't supposed to use a sniper rifle really any other way. Only using arms will obviously have its effects. I don't see your point, it seems more as a contradiction.

With these huge posts, totally understandable. I'm trying to save space with all these responses! Like ahead, the following I'm just going to shorten to your introductory sentence.

Well yes, I very much understand the need for one hit kills. I would like it very much. But I also see nothing wrong with the highest level nano weave saving one from it. It is expensive, not many invest in it to my knowledge.

Firstly, bolt action sniper rifles are balanced around killing their target on the first shot. Plenty of different factors go into this balance. Let's take a look at some of the weapon stats first.

The ammo issue is something I've dealt with. I began stationing myself around allied Sunderers, at a reasonable distance to avoid enemy contact at close range, or rooftops and near-by hills of an ally controlled objective. I keep myself at least within 500m of a building or place I can resupply. Be it the equipment thing (not sure what you'd call it) or an ammo pack an engineer laid down.

Staying hidden I don't think I've had much problems. It was only if I began to be a little more infiltrator then sniper that things got fuzzy. A problem some snipers I've seen have. Moving position at the right time can change the outcome of your life. And I don't mean moving from rock to rock, but across roads, buildings, and really anything more then 100m.

I haven't experienced a lot of what other people have as an infiltrator, which is quite odd. I wonder how my play style may differ. I'm no master, I just question the issues at hand.

This is where power creep comes into play. Certs never stop coming at you in Planetside 2, so once you reach a point where you have nothing better to spend certs on, the 1000 cert dump for Nanoweave 5 doesn't seem like so much. Anyone with Nanoweave 4 will eventually have Nanoweave 5, but unfortunately Nanoweave 5 isn't the only rank that prevents OHKs on headshots.

Nanoweave 2 gives a non-Infiltrator user an EHP of 1125. After damage fall off (which happens at 100 meters for top tier BASRs, 75 meters for the rest) all BASRs deal 1100 damage on headshots. Nanoweave ranks 1 through 4 are very inexpensive and easy to obtain, and the higher the rank of Nanoweave on your target, the closer you have to be to punch through it.

I use the Parallax primarily, and I love my Suppressor. Unfortunately, this means that to kill a target with Nanoweave 5, I have to be within 50 meters to make it a OHK. The Parallax was sold on long range killing power, but at 50 meters every infantry weapon in the game but shotguns are more effective.

Play style definitely matters, as certain issues impact certain play styles considerably more than others. You may not see some things as an issue due to how you play the Infiltrator, which is quite alright. I'm not here to tell you how to play and your style is as legitimate as any other.

I am curious, though. How do you play the Infiltrator exactly?

Gonna have to cut some out again, I'm sure there are readers that are like "This is too much! I can't read anymore!"

Interesting, I never really considered power creep and that definitely puts things in a different light for me. I think I might look through the game updates again.

My faction is NC and I've of course used the NC14 Bolt Driver, and later purchased (with certs) the LM4 Longshot. I don't really like the Longshot, but that's for another discussion. Mini wall-o-text:

I play the role of a sniper, as per my weapon choice. I focus on gun proficiency, I have not used a single cert for anything other then my sniper rifle. I play with my brother, whom also has an infiltrator specific account, but on the opposing team and he finds me a difficult to find sniper. Despite the low amount of time I can use my cloak, since I haven't certed it at all, it becomes a very tactical and precisely timed operation when moving place to place. And when it comes to moving place to place, I don't stay still very often unless I find that the enemies don't have any attention in the vicinity of my resting area.

I also run with a 12x scope at all times, no suppressor unless I am a lone soldier in an area with reasonably fatal enemy activity. But basically I don't run suppressors for a majority of my play time. I may also pull out my pistol, which is the LA8 Rebel, no suppressor, no attachments. I don't really feel it needs any.

That's all I can think of, you can ask more of my play style as I can't give more of a specific answer without a specific question. Weird how that works for me, but that's off-topic.

So what I'm getting from you is that you're a highly mobile sniper who runs closer to the front lines than most. You don't use a suppressor so you can retain more damage over distance than players who do make use of it, and since you're always moving you are more easily able to deal with Nanoweave, because instead of waiting for your target to come closer you just close the distance yourself if you need to.

I can see how lower levels of Nanoweave probably don't impact your play style very much, especially if you do a lot of sniping under 75 meters. You don't strike me as a particularly long range player, which Nanoweave is the counter to. Forgive me if I'm wrong about that

How am I meant to know if you are talking about real life or in game if you do not state so? Your comment was very general. In addition, your comment was a reply to something that was definitely talking about in game balance - so how else are people meant to take it other than in reference to the in game weapons?

You made a comment about how this is modelled on reality. I made a counter comment about how in reality these weapons are designed around not having sway for various reasons, including using positions that give stability (like the kneel and rest-on-knee position) when artificial supports are not available. For example: http://sniper-rifle.yoll.net/sniperpositions3.htm. My point was that the game model is therefore not an accurate model of reality to begin with (it is more a kin to giving trainees sniper rifles rather than trained soldiers).

You also made the comment about balance. I used the counter point that balance is not being achieved - as the stats show. I'll add now, in case it was not obvious from the context, balance could be achieved by lessening the effects of scope sway - but instead they have been increased (as per usual SOE reasoning!).

The problem stems from the fact that people think infiltrators are snipers.

Balls to the tired notions of the slick headshot sniper operating from deep behind enemy lines. Infiltration is about maximum disruption. I play 90% infiltrator with SMG and occasionally mix it up with Gauss SPR or the LA80.

Nanoweave doesn't come into it when you're unloading a GD-10 into someones headshot hitbox. For the medium -long ranges take those chest shots, leg shots, running shots, LA flying shots. Sniping infiltrators are about fire support/suppression - sitting there waiting for someone to stand still so you can take a breath-hold headshot is so unproductive it hurts. Even if you get the kill - it has still likely not achieved much.

My sincere advice is to get a mid range scout rifle with a suppressor/SMG/Whatever and get in the thick of it, flip their terminals, pull out a MBT and hit them in the rear. Take 2 shots at someone then run away.

TL;DR A Sniper is an infiltrator, an infiltrator is NOT a sniper - go mix it up and discover the profound versatility the infiltrator class has rather than focusing on such a bland (and yet of course valid) playstyle.

P.S As a regular abuser of; the recon dart is OP.

Not everyone likes playing the same way. There are some who exclusively play hardcore infiltration, others who play as a hardcore sniper and a whole bunch who fall somewhere in the middle. There's really no point in saying that one play style is better than the others, since what it comes down to for many people is personal preference.

For example, I have always enjoyed sniping in FPS games, but my common complaint was that the maps are typically too small for me to operate at the distances that I enjoy. I have been waiting for literally years for a game like Planetside 2, and for a few months sniping was exactly what I have always wanted.

Pulling a MBT behind enemy lines is just one method of disruption. The way I play my sniper often breaks spawn room camps, because I know which classes to prioritize and which pockets of infantry to hit first. I get such a thrill out of getting somewhere unexpected and unloading all 60 of my shots without being detected, but the most rewarding, most satisfying moments are when I scatter enemy forces and break their formations. Even punching a temporary hole in any given offensive or defensive line is often enough to allow my allies to surge forward, and can change the tide of any battle in our favor.

To me, there's no greater joy than knowing that I just turned a loss into a win, and I did it with the most crippled play style of the most underpowered class in the game.

We agree then. I said it was painfully unproductive (This is a metric on stats - sniping is unproductive).

Doesn't the render issues annoy the hell out of you with infantry popping in and out?

It is - but I didn't advocate soley pulling a MBT.

I'm a little confused, you're either sitting in a spawn room shooting out, or sitting out a spawn room shooting at people in. Either way it encourages camping, you cannot snipe enough people to mitigate XP ***** medic, this is why SOE is not giving a F about nanoweave/headshots - it leads to ridge vs ridge laming.

Then for the love of god try playing the infiltrator differently for just 2 days and you'll be converted. Whilst you're doing an admirable job taking headshots witha bolt driven slow rifle on people standing in plain view at a spawn room. I get a LA friend to attach C4 to my face, kill what I can then get my friend to detonate me whilst I am in a group of 5-6-7-8. That has an impact immeasurably more than "prioritising classes to shoot".

If you enjoy using a crippled playstyle of an (not-quite-true-imo-but-w.e) underpowered class then there isn't a problem of it being crippled.

I've been awake far too long at work so hope you don't find me too abrasive, I have nothing against you or your playstyle - I suppose my overall point is that when your playstyle is so - so focused on a linear 2 dimensional way of how to range, position and take shots then otherwise smallish changes to the game (Which will ofc be common) will always have a large effect on narrow playstyles

Absolutely, but I would rather take shots at people 300 meters away and risk them popping in and out of sight than be forced into a 30-50 meter engagement range.

This is exactly the kind of mentality I capitalize on. If people notice they're getting hit by a sniper of the faction being camped in their spawn room, they assume that the shots are coming from inside.

I never shoot out from the spawn room, and almost always have line of sight that the spawn room campers lack. I'm a little better about my positioning than the predictable locations. In fact, it's not uncommon for people to send me /tells or /yells saying how they're reporting me for hacking because they can't find me and I'm sitting at the top of the leader board. They just assume that I'm inside a wall or something.

Medics are always my first priority in these situations. If there are no medics to revive, everything else falls into line.

I play a well rounded variety of play styles, including ones that rarely if ever involve combat. Conversion will only happen when sniping becomes impossible; until then, no matter how bad it is, it will remain my favorite. It's just my personal preference.

I've done the C4 to the face tactic before. It's great for taking out MAXes, which is something that snipers can't usually do on their own, but it only has a temporary effect on the overall battle unless you're extremely lucky and happen to take out all medics within a 15 meter radius with that blast, otherwise they jump right back up again. (Revive grenades are a powerful thing)

That's what I like about sniping, it allows me to be precise and operate surgically. It isn't a gamble whether or not my target is a high priority medic or a low priority LA, I can tell by looking at them what class they are and how important they are to the situation at hand. Every offense and every defense has a backbone, my job is finding and breaking that backbone. It brings a level of critical thinking to the game that I love.

I don't enjoy using a crippled playstyle, I enjoy the playstyle despite the fact that it's crippled. There is a rather large difference

A lot of people play the sniper in a narrow way. To the majority it's all about the kills, and playing in a way that is low risk, high reward. My playstyle just isn't like that. I could go into detail about every reason why, but I'm fairly tired myself and I don't think a lot of what I say will make sense in this state. In a nutshell, I love it because it's psychological, and I love it because it really forces me to think to live up to my full potential.

The small changes to the game haven't had that much of an impact on my gameplay, but the larger ones have. Nanoweave has had its values doubled (effectively speaking, since players didn't know the true values until people started posting about it on the forums. Until then Flak Armor was the superior choice), which is a large change for all classes. That's the only one that has had a direct impact on my play style.
Scout radar hurts because it can detect me while I'm standing still, making sniping from behind enemy lines more difficult. But since I don't always go behind enemy lines this is a situational problem that is entirely in my control. If I don't want scout radar singling me out, I just move closer to my allies so that my dot blends with theirs.

Awareness would have been a huge change to the game, no doubt about that. But since it's the only other thing that would have truly directly impacted my play style and would have been out of my control and it won't be making it into the game it isn't even worth bringing up, not really. I only do so to illustrate how the things that have intruded on my gameplay the most have been major changes. The minor changes are an inconvenience, and coupled with the major ones they can cause problems, but they don't hurt the way I play too much.

For real.... we've had this discussion for months now... and things haven't changed at all.

Is it possible SoE won't ever change this no matter how much we complain?

The majority of the playerbase, including the developers themselves, have no experience playing sniper and goes: "OMG NOOB SNIPER" the moment they get headshotted.

They don't know what a pain in the **** it is to get to that perfect spot, how hard it is to land a headshot on a moving target and seemingly don't realize how easily we are spotted and killed.

All they see is getting one shotted by a sniperrifle without knowing wherefrom, and by default to them means it's overpowered.

Sniper haters can't snipe themselves, therefore hate those who can.

If there is a tiny light of hope on the horizon, it's the buffing of the shield capacitor suit cert thingie. Hopefully this causes abit more variation on the battlefield in regards to the ammount of Nanoweave running around.

True. The shield capacitor suit change I hope is ridiculously strong - it would have absolutely no affect on bolt-action headshots yet would hugely diminish the number of nanoweave users.

Moin

Funny story from yesterday. I was defending Jaegars Fist on Esamir with a bunch of pubbies against a slightly smaller, but well organised outfit squad, mostly BR50+. EVERY guy of these had NW5. I scored 11 headshots with my LA80 (hearing the *clunk*) and got not a single kill with these. In a base fight, mind you. I didn't sit on a hill a few hundred meters away, I was in the damn base! I didn't even use a silencer! NW is broken as hell at the moment and I seriously hope they fix it with the infiltrator GU.

Grüße,
regards,
the Toast

Good post (original psoter).

As for "lone wolf" sniping. They aren't the only one's affected. Sniping within a team is also affected in the same way. Go after a bank of AV or AI engies. *clink* NW5.. *click* NW5.. *click* NW5.. Medic heals them, back at turret. Now, with a OHK a medic has to revive which is a greater risk to the medic and a little more time consuming. Another sniper? *click* NW5... Heavy shooting rockets at your bus? *clink* NW5...

It certainly hasn't helped the perception among a lot of players that "infiltrators are useless."

I used to snipe a lot, now it's about 25% of my inf game because of it's limited use. It's still an okay way to break up defences and soften a line, but no where near what it was and should be. Before one or two snipers could keep a side of a tower clear (for a short to medium time) because people feared stepping out there. Now? Nah.

Now I know the counter already "no one should be able to keep the side of a base/ridge/whatever clear all alone!" That argument can be applied to basically every class in a fashion. No Max should be able to guard a point solo, do we reduce their weapon effectiveness 25% across the board?. No LA should be able to place a spawn beacon so high up, etc.. There are counters to everything. NW5 shouldn't be it, another sniper or going and finding the sniper should be.

I play in teams/squad/outfit basically exclusively, if no one's on I do something else.

You do not take away a class ability without replacing it with something else. It's why people get upset with nerfs. If you take away, you also add.

Besides, all you have to do is watch the infiltrator update video from MLG to know what they know about infs on the dev team. Paraphrased: "with a stalker cloak and infiltrator can get behind an aegis max and blow it up with mines"

-Canno

You don't happen to have a video, do you? We can't shove enough of those in the Dev's faces in my opinion. Eventually they'll have to see it from the sniper's perspective if we give them enough material.

Have you ever considered shooting the Medic? As I've seen argued before, snipers are to take out high priority targets, other say that there are none. Medics are high priority targets and depending on the situation, I go for the medic. If not, usually when they are noticeably unfamiliar with the game, then I keep killing the ones he's/she's reviving to farm because I can. :3