[Vehicle] Harassers don't need new weapons

Not to poke at anyone, or put fuel on the fire. But to all of you claiming the harasser is to durable and powerful. How much time have you actually spent driving the harasser? The composite armor has been drastically nerfed since release. It's jump seat repair effectiveness was cut by like 70%. And it's damage from small arms fire was increased. It literally takes 5 guys with any gun about ten seconds to kill a fully armored harasser if they don't miss much. One AV mine and fifteen rounds, dead harasser. 1 mbt round and 2 saron/enforcer hits and your on fire and running or got blown up because that random sniper took a potshot you didn't stop to repair. 5 hits or so from an enforcer/halberd/saron is enough, and the range on those is easily 4x that of the vulcan. 2-3 av turret rounds, or 2 av engi turret rounds equals, smoldering harasser. 2 clips from a stock lightning or 3-4 ap shots, equals dead harasser. A sky guard can kill you in a single clip if accurate. A fury flash will kill me in about 4 seconds. One c4 and its all over.

And I fail to see how giving the VS and NC a "Vulcan" style weapon will change anything. It is not just the weapon, it is also the player manning it. I feel that many of the people complaining about dieing to the "Unfair/over powered" Vulcan, would have died anyway if the rolls were reversed. The Vulcan is not an "I win" weapon. It doesn't begin to do full damage until a second or two after the trigger is pressed. A good tanker will have swung his turret and placed a round before the weapon has begun to do full damage. An even better tanker or harasser crew will use the advantage that facing a Vulcan gives them and stay at range. If your outside of fifty or so meters, basically the range of the thermal scope on the Vulcan, it will do drastically reduced damaged. Also with the reload of it, combined with the wind up, there is a several second period where you are dealing none to little dps, during almost every fight, unless your battling a lighter armor vehicle in which you have a chance in killing with a single clip, IF THE MAJORITY OF SHOTS HIT ON THE REAR of the vehicle, you can one clip some light armor vehicles like lightnings and harassers. This isn't exactly easy... And surprise is necessary.

It takes skill, coordination, and communication to be effective in a harasser. I drive mine a lot, usually with a Vulcan as it suits my play style. I enjoy driving through the enemy armor at close range, focusing fire on one of the tanks, boosting out, repairing, and repeating till one of us is dead. I consider myself to be a decent to good harasser driver and I die all the time. If I'm the only target up against multiples, unless they just plain suck, I'm going to die, I'm sure as hell going to try, but I'm aware that I will most likely die. Half the time I'll boost out to repair and land on a mine. Ground locks are a *****, only takes like three, and they ******* follow you.

If you find yourself in an mbt or harasser, getting killed by harassers, maybe don't just say "well we died because they had a Vulcan and we didn't so **** them". Instead maybe think about **** like. Wow, that harasser just managed to get within two feet of my *** and I didn't notice, maybe I should look around every once in a while. Or wow, that weapon is really effective at close range, but is a slingshot at long range, maybe I'll use MY RANGE ADVANTAGE OVER THE VULCAN AND ATTACK FROM OUTSIDE ITS EFFECTIVE RANGE.

If an mbt gets one hit on me from the main cannon, or a saron/enforcer/halberd secondary as I try to close to Vulcan range, I have to peel off then and there or die. If they were a good enough shot to hit me while I was moving fast, at range, there a good enough shot to kill me before I can cause enough dps, period. Even an ap lightning only needs to hit one round before I'm thinking about boosting out, two to three more will kill me, or that heavy right there pulling out a decimator is sure as **** on my mind, because let's face it, there's always a heavy with a ******* decimator behind that rock or tree, ******* always.

I really hate to say it, but maybe you just need to practice with your vehicle/weapon of choice more, or alter your tactics when you engage or are engaged by Vulcans. I mean for ***** sake, the vanguard has the biggest cannon in the game, a secondary weapon/gunner as well, it's on wheels, and has a ******* invulnerability button..... If you can't kill my harasser with all that... I hate to say it, but it's not the Vulcan.... It's you.

But seriously, I mean no offense to anyone with this post, these are just my opinions on the matter. I got a hate tell earlier that put me over the edge and I decided to make this post.

Also, I'm not claiming that any of these time to kill numbers or damage/repair values are actually accurate, they are just the numbers I've reached based on experience, and I feel they are fairly accurate, at least enough for arguments sake.

Also, open invitation to anyone. Roll a tr on us west server and I'll pull you Vulcan harassers all day and drive or gun for you so you can see just how not easy it is to be effective. But seriously, spend ten or more hours driving a Vulcan harasser and then tell me if you think it's still to durable and overpowered. If you do, that's fine, that's your opinion, I just want to make sure it's an honest opinion based on actual time spent in a Vulcan harasser. And not just based on being killed by them. If you would like to take me up on this offer just send me a pm. Or if you just want to go a harassering I'm usually down.

You do know that the new ES AV weapons are for MBT's AND harassers?

The thing though is that you get to peel off. You can engage and disengage as many times as you want. Until of course you find that "right" time where the tank is looking elsewhere, and then you can proceed to kill the tank.

On the other hand, think of it from the Lightning's point of view. Can a Lightning disengage from a Harasser? Can a Lightning "reroll" the dice until it wins?

No, because the Harasser is much more agile and speedy than a Lightning. If a Lightning is caught in a disadvantageous situation, it cannot get away. It cannot disengage and reengage on advantageous terms.

The Harasser can keep picking fights until it wins.
The Lightning has to keep fighting until it loses.

It's not limited to Harassers though. The same is true of most aircraft, which can usually fly away without dying. Then they repair and come back. They can repeat this ad infinitum until they do find themselves in a situation where they have the upper hand.

This type of "not dying" gameplay is what is at its core quite unfair. Which is also why these "glass cannons" truly have to be glass cannons... where if they are caught in a disadvantageous situation they are pretty much assured death, just as how if they catch their prey in a disadvantageous situation they can easily kill.

It's already like this for harassers vs MBT's & sunderers.

If the tank crew has AI stuff equipped (lol dunno why they would) and are too busy shooting infantry to look around them for harassers they rightly die. If the MBT crew has their AT guns equipped and are looking around for vehicles, it can be extremely tricky to attack them even in a vulcan harasser and you normally have to wait till they are engage by something else to attack.

For sunderer's, if they have 2 manned basilisk's it can be risky or even fatal to get close. If they have 2 manned furys, it depends entirely on 2 things, the aim & prediction abilities of the fury's and the evasion abilities of the driver. 12 fury rounds kill a harasser so with 2 firing at one it becomes alot easier.

The problem is really the lightning. Should 1 person be able to easily win vs 2? It's not as if harassers are aircraft and you can chase them which prevents them stopping to repair, or risking repairing when an enemy is closing in.

I agree, but I think this is already the case. Harassers are quite fragile. And yes, I do move in and out, waiting for an opportunity where I have the upper hand. Otherwise I die. And a lightning can kill a Vulcan harasser before the harasser can kill it, unless it misses a significant number of shots. Dps/armor wise it will win in a toe to toe. Everything has its strengths and weaknesses. You just need to exploit the weakness and you will win. That is a fundamental aspect of strategy.

I guess my gripe is that people consider the harasser to be OP and I disagree. Utilized properly, by a competent crew, it is extremely powerful. As is a liberator or Valkyrie, or MBT, or flash, or ESF, or MAX. I just hate to hear people yelling harasser OP when I really feel it isn't. It's not the harassers fault if you didn't see it coming, it's yours, and if you didn't see it coming and it opens up on you, how is it unreasonable to expect that you die.

The problem though is that Harassers have an "otherwise". Lightnings do not. They just get to barely fight off the Harasser or die.

Even if I were to see a Harasser coming, there's not really much that I can do in a Lightning. Sure I could shoot at it, and if I manage to hit then it will run off. But again, that's temporary, because the Harasser will be back. So I shoot at it again. And it runs off again.

Until one time I will miss. Because that just happens. And in that case, the Harasser won't run off... it will close with and kill me. And I can't run off (except maybe ditch my Lightning and hope I get lost in the smoke of the wreckage).

If a single AP cannon shot (because let's face it, one 100mm AP/HE/HEAT shell ought to destroy a light buggy pretty thoroughly) could kill a Harasser, that would be balanced. So if I saw the Harasser first, then the Harasser would be dead. But if the Harasser saw me first, then I would be dead. That's fair gameplay that truly lets the Harasser shine in a real "glass cannon" role, but also makes it actually vulnerable to dying if it messes up.

You are correct, one armor piercing, explosive round would pretty much destroy a truck/buggy. As a single bullet would pretty much destroy a human beings chest cavity. And if we play by that logic, ten rounds or so from the Vulcan would be enough to shred through the cockpit of a tank and destroy you with shrapnel and ricochets. Let's not forget, they are armor piercing as well.

But this is not reality, it's planetside, and one shooting a potential three kill vehicle just would not be balanced, it already happens with mines.

And the Lightning pilot can stay in a group for protection, no one forces you to venture out solo. And if you do, you will get harassed, that is exactly what the vehicle was designed for. And if you manage to hit them and scare them off. Maybe maneuver into a ravine to force there approach and lay some mines for there return. Or jump out, set up your engie turret in the direction they will approach, right next to your already directed lightning barrel and wait. Hit em once with the engi turret when they have committed, then jump in the lightning and finish em off real quick. There are always options. But not every vehicle should be able to beat every vehicle. Especially when said vehicle was designed for the purpose of killing solo vehicles...

If you know, the Vulcan was larger than the Harasser itself:



Really something as puny as the 30mm Vulcan has no hope against a MBT.

The Harasser isn't a combat vehicle though... it's a hybrid transport, with a primary mission of moving infantry.

You are trying to use a vehicle that is 50% transport in order to go up against a vehicle that is 100% combat... what do you think should happen?

There are some vehicles that are transports and are not meant for combat. These would be the Flash, Harasser, Sunderer, Valkyrie, and Galaxy. Their weapons should pretty much be for largely self-defense, or at best supporting fire to the actual assault elements. But PS2 handholds the operators of these vehicles by buffing the health and armour of transports immensely, where a Galaxy can take more AP rounds than tanks and Sunderers are often beefier from certain directions than MBTs!

What? I think you are trying to base your roles off how similar vehicles would function in reality, when this game is based on anything but. All those vehicles have plenty of combat utility, and were designed and intended to perform that way. Wraith Flash, Battle Bus, Battle Gal... These things didn't happen because players found a way to use these vehicles outside their intended use, they were meant to be used that way from the very start.

The Harasser isn't a combat vehicle... Thanks, I needed a good lol. Its a mobile, light armored hit-and-runner, and an incredibly poor vehicle at transporting enough troops to be combat effective at a given location safely.

No matter what happens......Halberd All the way!

xSalt - do you play on Emerald at all?

Hey, I didn't say it. Came from the official patch notes when the Harasser was introduced.

Of course there were never meant to be used in that way from the beginning... for example, the Battle Bus concept was a by product of trying to make spawns more durable. They even messed up on Blockade Armour for the longest time, where the rear armour was unusually high.

Players of course capitalize on these design mistakes, which is why you have Bulldog Galaxies farming spawns instead of acting as fragile C-130s.

Somebody have the actual DPS stats for this statement?
A Vulcan behind a Lightning.. that lightning is dead in a few seconds.

A Lightning behind a harasser.. ? Even with AP rounds, the lightning needs 3 shots (is that correct?)
That would be about 9 seconds? How much damage does the Vulcan put out in those 9 seconds ?

I'm not sure that most players can win in a Lightning, against a Vulcan harasser.. I don't think that's an even fight.

AP Lightning TTK against Harasser (100% Accuracy)
AP cannon- 1,600 damage every 3 seconds
Harasser- 2,500 HP, 39% natural armour, 4% AP resistance
TTK- 936.96 damage per shot, 3 STK, 6 second TTK

Vulcan Harasser TTK against Lightning (10m, rear, 100% Accuracy)
Vulcan H- 167 damage, 13.3 shots per second, 90 round belt, 2.5 second reload
Lightning- 3,000 HP, 32% rear armour, 55% APMG resistance
TTK- 51.102 damage per shot, 59 STK, 4.4 second TTK

If you look at the average accuracies (AP Lightning 52%, Vulcan 42.7%), then TTKs still don't favour the Lightning:

AP Lightning TTK against Harasser (52% damage adjustment)
TTK- 487.2192 damage per shot, 6 STK, 15 second TTK

Vulcan Harasser TTK against Lightning (42.7% damage adjustment)
TTK- 21.821 damage per shot, 138 STK, 12.85 second TTK

Thx Colonel.. that's what I thought. Vulcan Harasser is OP. And, if I understand it correctly, all faction Harassers will receive this kind of fire power in the Sept update?
I guess I will have to mothball my tanks and buy a Harasser!

That's what I've been thinking. I have to race to get my Vanguard master directive done!

Thinking about it... a few reasons why Vulcan Harassers simply don't work:

1) Harasser chassis can take far too many hits. 2,500 HP is only 500 HP less than a Lightning.
2) Harasser chassis can resist AP weapons too well. With a 4% resistance to AP shells, the Harasser has better resists than a Lightning (20% vulnerability).
3) Harasser chassis has no "weak spot". It is equally armoured all over so the operators do not have to worry about vulnerability.
4) Harasser chassis is too inexpensive. At 150 nanites you could buy 2 Harassers for the cost of 1 Lightning... and still have nanites left over.
5) Vulcans have too much DPS. If one AP Lightning were to attack another Lightning in the rear, that would have a TTK of 6 seconds... the Vulcan Harasser could do the same job in 4.4 seconds.
6) Vulcans are too easy to use. They're just typical "spray and pray" weapons. Missing with a Vulcan is not very penalizing, whereas missing with an AP Python shot greatly increases TTK.

Reasons why Vulcan Harassers might work:

1) They take 2 people to operate.

Vulcan harasser is OP at ten meters sure, but it is the only AV weapon that I know of that is primarily designed to operate within that >75-100m range, other than the pounder max. What are the time to kills at 25m or 50m or 75m even, ranges I would still consider to be effective range of the Vulcan. I'm honestly curious, not sure if there is a difference or not. But these are definitely within the range of lightning rounds.

And thank you for doing the research. I'm not denying it, like I said, nothing I've stated is hard fact, I did not do the research, just what I have observed in game. According to your research, as far as I can tell, accounting for accuracy, there is a 2.15 second advantage to the Vulcan. Or a 1.6 second favoring at 100% accuracy at the ten meter range. But I also feel it necessary to point out, that if the harasser has closed to within ten meters of the rear of the lightning without being detected. And opens fire at sub ten meter range into the weakest and smallest target area of said lightning, is it so wrong that the harasser should kill the lightning? Use your range advantage, maneuver your body to keep your rear protected while shooting. The turret rotates independently, use that mechanic to your favor. Shoot one way while your tank body faces another. Buy yourself more time in the fight.


And at Oberchingus, I do have a character there from a couple years back when I played for a few months. But upon my return a few weeks ago I switched to Connery in the hopes of a better latency. Why? What's up?

Just wondering if you'd have a different experience fighting folks from Connery. Naturally, there are people who think the Vulcan is OP on all servers, but I from what I can tell, I get the sense that more people on Emerald know it is psychological, and perfectly kill-able just as it has always been.

Latency is amazing on Connery if you're on the West Coast from what I gather. It's hard for me to ignore a 40 ping while I connect from Las Vegas. But my home is on Emerald, where my harasser outfit resides.


So is this thread more about your take on the Vulcan and the harasser being a fragile pop-can, or is it that the upcoming weapons won't change the Joe-Heavy-Assault's perception of the harasser?

So the OP is wondering why a weapon that can 1 clip a MBT, that is used by 4 times the next most popular weapon?

The real question is why its taken DBG so long to balance it out (either by making a version for the NC/VS) or hitting it with the nerf bat from hell (like ZoE, PPA, Banshee).

Ya, I would say that this thread is about me saying the Vulcan harasser is actually balanced. And that Oberchingus is right and it's all psychological/bandwagoning by the masses. This is just my opinion, but I also notice that no one who disagrees with me has posted anything about there time spent in a harasser, with or without a Vulcan. They are fragile, and powerful, no matter what the load out when used smartly and effectively.

And Oberchingus, I wish I could say my latency issues were all behind me since switching to Connery. But every so often the "connection: poor/bad" will pop up in the upper left corner and I'll start warping all over, even though my ping stays under 200 lol. Then after a few minutes it usually clears up.