Ground based AA is far too strong vs ESF

I am sure this has been brought up before but for me one Emerald, static AA and MAXX AA is too strong of a hard counter vs ESF. I am really trying to enjoy flying my scythe but my average life expectancy is a few minutes at best. I am not a bad pilot either.

Any AA in the game is not strong enough. The developers have always said that all ground-based AA is a deterrent, and they are.
If you start with your ESF right on top of a Skyguard/AA turret/Burster MAX, you can always get away with ESF intact.
AA in this game sacrifices everything. They stop being good against infantry and tanks. The only thing they are good at is shooting aircraft.
Aircraft on the other hand can be good against other aircraft, infantry and all vehicles with one loadout. Personally I prefer to hunt down Skyguards and Burster MAX's when I come across them... in ESF. As NC I need to get real close to the MAX's with my airhammer, surprise them and blow them away. I've seen Banshee wielders who could melt MAX's from long ranges. A rocketpod or Hornets go a loooooong way against Skyguards. You notice where they are (you get hit by flak), you repair up, circle around (easy with fast ESF) and fire your rockets into the back of them. You can just about OHK you... while they still can't kill you if you just run away. Or you fire your nosecannon/wait for your weapons to have been reloaded and finish the job, which you usually have time for as they try to flee and fire in a panick, missing half their shots.

Whenever AA starts shooting, try to get away. know where cover on the ground makes you harder to hit, swerve randomly from side to side to avoid the flak rounds. If you just high-tail it with afterburner you usually survive just as well.

I'm a great pilot against ground, a bad pilot against air. But to die to flak I need to look for it, go there and then stick around too long. That takes more than just a few minutes.

AA needs to be as strong as now or stronger due to the overwhelming power air brings. Want less AA? Lower the power level of air vs. ground.

"Good" being used in the loosest sense possible, in the same way a bucket of water is "good" at putting out the 1906 San Francisco fire.

This is excellent advice, and it's important to remember that ESFs are not supersonic high-altitude fighters. Given the flight ceiling and reduced speed (not to mention things like hovering), they're more like attack helicopters than jet fighters.

There are two options for avoiding ground AA. The first is to fly really high up. At that range (in most places) you're out of SAM range and flak weapons have too large a CoF to consistently hit you. The second option is to fly really low, using a nap-of-the-earth approach. Just like tanks and infantry, aircraft must use available cover to stay alive.



Flying in the middle zone, too high to use cover and too low to avoid shots, is what gets most pilots killed by AA fire. That and moving in predictable straight lines.

So.. you want air to be completely uncontested?

get into static AA turret, kill at least 5 ESFs then post your feedback

You've just got to learn how to avoid it, really any pilot that dies to AA in PS2 is doing something wrong - usually it is being fixate on a kill (ok fair enough sometimes you'll get unlucky in getting hit by a lock-on and flying over a ridge straight into a Skyguards sights or something - but everyone get unlucky and dies sometimes).

OP
as a grunt.....I could not disagree with you more
If you have no way to get inside a building aircraft can seem to kill you ANYTIME they want to.
The only thing that consistently kills aircraft ..is other aircraft.
Flack turrets......Skyguard are at best effective in pushing aircraft away from their area.Heck tanks with Skyguard are hunted just because they have that modification.

You may want to reconsider that.

You should only die to flak if you are A) stupid or B) over committed to getting a kill

Moin

FLAK is fine. G2A lock-ons should have their initial lock-on range nerfed to 300m, apart from that AA is completly fine.

G2A lockon launcher are even worse at AA.
I don´t know the exact TTK but considering lockon-time, travel time and especially rockets just hitting the ground/wall directly after firing (stupid rocket physics) or flying directly into a mountain it´s a lot longer then just using the LMG.

As far as I know you need 3 hits with the Annihilator (or Nemesis) to kill an ESF as long as fire sup is not used.

And since the rocket "exit physics" went mental, you have to expose yourself to every enemy because you need an extreme angle to get the rocket on the right way. Even then, when ESF pilots fly low it will usually hit the bottom or any mountain near that.

I´m not saying they are completely useless but if you nerf the lockon range you could also use the beamer.

AA is in as good a place as it will ever be. Since AA can start attacking the aircraft before the ground unit even renders, the aircraft needs to be able to get away unless he gets too ambitious. So it can't be any stronger. If AA were less effective than it is, aircraft would stomp all over ground units with impunity, so it can't be any weaker. Some people feel this is already the case, but they're usually thinking of small fights where almost no one has access to AA tools or defending when heavily outnumbered.

Moin

You're assuming a 1on1 scenario between a HA and an ESF pilot. I know who wins this fight. The problem with G2A lock-ons is that they interfere with A2A combat too much without even giving the pilot a chance to render the source of damage.
Considering how incredibly easy lock-ons are to use and how versatile the launchers are - they can be dumbfired, do a little less damage than the default dumbfires, but have better velocity and optics - I don't think that they need 150m more range than the shooter is rendered for the target. 300m is enough for the initial lock, if the aircraft is further away he can't even render you and most of the time the effective render distance for infantry is a good deal less than 300m.

Of course we could simply remove the dumbfire option for them, but I like versatility more than rock-paper-scissor balance.

Well, you´re right. They interfere with A2A combats.Did you also consider that ESFs interfere with G2G combat? And [everthing] interferes with [everything] in this game? It´s not like we have a combined arms game, is it?

Don´t get me wrong. I don´t want to have AA solutions that make the complete airgame useless. The air deterence role on the most weapons are well balanced in my opinion. I´m just saying that the G2A lockon launchers are the worst of them but that is ok because they don´t cost any resources.

But maybe our interests are not that far away from eachother.
- You don´t want to get hit by random G2A rockets when you are in an intense A2A situation
- I want an infantry weapon that is suitable to scare single aircrafts away that are attacking a base (A2G)

So I could live with a 300m lock on range if there would be some benefit for fighting A2G ESFs. (Maybe shorter lockon time if in a certain range).

Classic "I don't feel like enough of a god" in this game post. Daddy is the #1 stat player in the game, most his kills come from flying ESF's. Just watch any youtube video and you can see people getting 50+ kill streaks on the regular in an ESF. I'd say AA is just fine and you need to work on your pilot skills.

I'd rather say that is a more fitting description of what air does to ground more often than when ground doing it towards air.
Maybe not without rendering but with the terms of the engagement almost solely in the hands of the air.

Decent pilots use the terrain to their advantage as they realise the ESFs aren't planes. It's one of the reasons the aces can get KDRs of 11+ is they know exactly how to use, place, and keep their ESF alive.

Like savants or something.

Well if the pilot is flying in circles overhead a ground battle and ignoring AA while focusing on A2A combat.. then yeah, lock-ons are pretty easy to use.

For most other situations, pilots are able to hit and run before a lock can be achieved. And even when a lock is achieved there's no guarantee it will result in a successful hit. Just yesterday I hit a friendly sunderer with a lock on because it veered off with malicious intent.

Meanwhile back in my gameplay the only AA option that can hope to keep an ESF off you is a Dual-Burster MAX or Skyguard with very good aim and a slow and sluggish ESF pilot. Lock-ons take time to activate and can be actively countered, and as the game get's older many ESF pilots become so versed in how to proceed they will be in, harvesting a couple kills and out long before you can hope to lock on and fire enough times to take the ESF out.

The only option you have to stop a 350 resource ESF is to pull at least one 450 resource MAX, and get in good hits fast and reliably.

Your claims are absurd from my viewpoint and your argument don't hold any water. If you die as fast as you say that's likely because you fly into a heavy concentration of AA due to the strong air force of your own faction, or you are to slow to get out in time while attacking and/or doing so from obvious directions and angles where you are easy to see.

Moin

I'm well aware of the combined arms aspect of the game. I don't complain about skyguards sneaking up on me when I'm in a dogfight; they render for me, they guy in the Lightning has to actively aim at me and lead my movements and thus I can actively try to dodge his shots. As soon as I've broken LoS he can't hurt me anymore. Shaking off a lock-on is a lot harder and less reliable, it doesn't cost any ressources or even effort from the guy using it and he usually doesn't even render for me.

Not only do they cost no ressources, there's little downside in using the G2A launcher as an all-purpose-weapon. It takes 1 more shot to a Vanguards front armor, 9 instead of 8, compared to the default launcher. In return the G2A launcher has way better optics and faster velocity. And as long as you're not the only one on AA duty, the lock-on launcher is quite effective at scaring aircrafts away. It also is so easy to use that even a monkey could use it. You just look at the aircraft and click LMB when the square turns green. I agree that there have to be weapons that can be used even by the worst players to defend themselfes against the "skygods", but in my opinion the lock-on launchers have a bit too much range for their role and the effort you have to put into them.

If you check my stats you'll notice that I've got more kills as infantry than I have with aircrafts. I do know the situation from both sides. I wouldn't comment here and make suggestions if that wasn't the case.
Btw, the lock-on time at short range is already pretty quick and if the aircraft tries to shove it's nosegun down your throat you can always instantly dumbfire.