[Suggestion] Give the Sunderer Scout Radar & Engagement Radar.

It all depends on the standard modes operandi when attacking.
Attackers have vehicle superiority, that is in 95% of the cases a given.
Most bases offer shelter for Sunderers... Shelter from attacks originating from the inside, not the outside. Vehicle superiority means that any Sunderers are quickly destroyed, they are almost undefendable without vehicle superiority. Most bases also do not offer enough space to put more than a few sunderers, and the attackers will quickly have surrounded the base.
I'll name the few bases that do offer the defenders a Sunderer defense option, because the list of bases that do not offer it is too long: AMP stations, Biolabs, Tech plants, very few edge-cases where the attackers need to move through a base rather than around to get to the other side, in these bases it's also not exactly handy to place a sunderer on the other side as the spawn bunker offers the best position for most combat.

Any other base is either too small or too easily circumnavigated to have defender Sunderers.

And as usual, attacking the person instead of the argument is not far with you is it? You pose an obvious question, I give you the obvious answer, then you attack me for it. Good job man!

You do understand that having Scout Radar & Engagement Radar on Sunderers helps defenders right?

Explain that flight of fancy, I just told you exactly and explicitly how it mostly helps the attackers.

A protected defensive sunderer(s) with scout radar can help hold off attackers by giving recon. Defenders could see where the attackers are coming from in a much wider radius then with standard recon tools.

Engagement Radar allows Dual AA sunderers to hold off the Attackers Aircraft.

And as I just explained, defender Sunderers are few and far between, only available in a few bases. So who will this benefit? Well the attackers of course, the attackers will be able to hold off the defenders, allow them to see the defenders coming from a much wider radius then with standard recon tools. And the engagement radar allows dual AA Sunderers from the attackers to hold off aircraft from the defenders.

Because get this: The attackers will always use Sunderers, the defenders rarely ever get to use Sunderers, which means the attackers will always benefit, and the defenders only in a few edge cases.

No issue with them having Engagement Radar but Scout Radar should IMO have a severely limited range of about 50m .. Just enough to inform the Sundy occupants of incoming threats but without lighting up every trooper within a stupidly long range as some of the current versions do ..

People complain about Motion spotters and their small 50m range yet are fine with Scout radar stretching out to 100m on the most commonly used version ...

What server do you play on & when you do play?

I see defensive sunderers all the time. A well placed one can defend a base.

A few flanking ones can kill an assault.


I'm just baffled how you are always so emotional invested on trying to negatively view my threads.

The Flashes scout radar has a max range of 100m.

Which is to far IMO ... And I know they are rarely used but the ESF / Vals 200m version is just idiotic .. So yeah 50m max on a Sundy version is enough and about all that's needed for vehicle protection.

I'm baffled at how you desperately try to defend your weird claims with fantasies. I play on Miller, but that doesn't matter as every server uses the same base layouts.

Here's a "little" list of every base on indar alone that will rarely (if ever) see a defensive Sunderer:
Saurva Data storage
Saurva overflow depot
Saurva South Fortress (although it has options, why use one at all? The spawnroom is a better option in almost every way)
Helios Solar inc
Alkali shipping
Benson Construction
Indar Waste treatment
Camp Connery
NS Salvage yard
Crater firing range
Alkali mining shipment
J908 impact site
Camp waterson
NS refinery
Mao watchtower (sometimes one on the hills)
Mao Southwest gate (although there are options, but again the spawnroom is better than those options)
Mao Southeast gate (sometimes one is located almost on top of the Mao techplant to support it, otherwise none)
Briggs laboratories
Abandoned NS offices
Howling Pass checkpoint (has options, but again the standard spawnbunker outstrips it for the defensive options)
East canyon checkpoint
Galaxy solar plant
The palisade
Ceres Hydroponics
Seabed listening post
Dahaka Southern post (it has options, but each would be farther away and less favorable than the spawnbunker)
Dahakea pump station
Dahaka uplink hub (again it has options, but the spawn bunker is better in any way)
Coramed labs
Indar excavation
Indar Comm Array
West Highlands Checkpoint (although once in a blue moon people will put a Sunderer in the hills)
Allatum Broadcast hub
TI alloys
The Crown has options and it isn't a large facility! Too bad they are actually only used when they are mopping up the remaining attackers and are gearing up to become the attackers themselves.
Zurvan Pump station
Zurvan Storage Yard
Zurvan Network complex
Rust Mesa
Crimson Bluff
Ns Material Storage
Rashnu watchtower, Rashnu Cavern...

Hey, that was what, 90% of the northern half bases of Indar? I'm not going to continue because this is already more than enough proof that defensive Sunderers are a flight of fancy in your mind. There's a few select bases that can hold them, use them, but most bases do not.

And I am not the emotional one. I see some bullmanure, I correct it. It is you that replies with things like how people's estrogen levels are rising, not me. It is you that makes stuff up, not me. The big problem here is not that I am "emotionally invested on trying to negatively view your threads", the problem is that you come up with the biggest bullcrap you can imagine and defend it hand and teeth with fantasy and insults.

For the record, I assume you're ignoring Sunderers planted near Biolab satellite base jumppads on account of that not really being a defensive Sunderer, correct?

A defensive sunderer doesn't always have to be in the base itself.

Also, its really hilarious how you get so worked up for no reason.

Yes and no, those are used to defend the Biolab itself, which is a large facility and does see defensive sunderers, the easiest to name would be the one in the vehicle bay and defensive sunderers at the satellites are of course also used... But a defensive sunderer for the satellite itself? Hardly.

Also, you attacked me personally again. You really are quickly at the end of your rope.
And a defensive sunderer does not have to be in the base itself, however, such defensive sunderers are rare and my list of bases still counts even with those mixed in, simply because they do not offer as much power as you credit them. Sure they can be handy, but in many cases it just puts some infantry far away from the point and out in the open where vehicles will easily crush them.

Defensive sunderers are not rare, they are really common actually.

You never responded to what server(s) you play on.

A sunderer near B or C in 908 helps defend it really well.
For howling Pass, Driving a sunderer into the Northwestern tower provides an extremely good spawn location, perfect for infantry AV, and getting to C. You also deploy right in the East tower touching the Vehicle shield for easy access to B, or jump-padding around the towers.

He said miller at the top of the list post.

Miller?

Oh.......oh.

They get all the benefits already. Invulnerability is a huge one. You can fire rockets, mana turrets, and AA out of them. They don't need anymore. In fact removing their ability to be shot out of would result in an indirect Buff to defense.

Because of the invulnerable but still shoot out of trait.. players stay in them. Why not? You can get kills and exp from there with no risk. But that causes defense to fail, as for each person that spawn room warriors, thats one less Real defender that can immediately redeploy in to help defend.

Spawnrooms are detriments to defense in their current state. Removing them entirely would make base defense easier.

Sunderers have Proximity radar which is the same as Engagement Radar.

Scout Radar is the one that reveals moving-enemy position to everyone in your faction.

I'm assuming that the thought is that Scout radar makes a sundy too defendable.

Prox works for occupants of vehicles (all vehicles in the area), so your Sunday gunners can use it to shoot at enemies in the area ... now to just get someone to sit in those gunner seats....

Just a little correction: The Sunderer(s) deployed in the garage are not used to defend the biolab, at least not since a very old update moved the garage teleporter from the outside of the SCU room to the safety of the spawn room.

Those are cert-farming Sunderers these days, and they serve no practical purpose to the team whatsoever unless they also have the ammo resupply kit (which makes them actually useful to the defenders, especially when the attackers are besieging the garage and barring defender vehicles from the ammo towers).