[Vehicle] G20 Vulcan-H Needs A Nerf !

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by ChUnKiFieR, Jun 26, 2020.

  1. ChUnKiFieR

    A BIG HUGE EFFIN BUMP. FIX THIS ****!
  2. MD_Geist

    The vulcan has been nerfed on three occasions already. Lets talk about capping all NC small arms at 167 damage like everyone else instead.
  3. Atorum

    In order to destroy Vanguard while shooting at its rear all the time it takes Vulcan 13 seconds, it takes Mjolnir 7 seconds to take out Prowler in same situation.
  4. Demigan

    Ah yes and the Gauss SAW at full auto will also have 100% accuracy with just headshots within its minimum damage range all the time! Who cares about simple things like ease of use, effective range and ACTUAL PERFORMANCE:
    https://voidwell.com/ps2/oracle?sta...02900&startDate=2016-07-07&endDate=2020-07-24

    Check those statistics. The Mjolnir might have a theoretical lower TTK, but practically its a worse weapon, which you can easily see in how the Vulcan is superior in each and every way.

    Here's another with all Harasser AV weapons selected. Notice how the Vulcan has several times more users, lower BR users, more vehicle kills per hour, more vehicle kills per unique and in general is superior in each and every way to any other Harasser AV weapons by a mile and a half:
    https://voidwell.com/ps2/oracle?sta...02900&startDate=2016-07-07&endDate=2020-06-28


    Lets do a thought experiment:
    TR and NC both get a 100 damage, 500 ROF weapon. Both arw going to get buffed once: They now deal 200 damage and have a ROF of 900.

    Obviously thats pretty OP. So they are going to nerf it:
    NC gets nerfed once to a 200 damage 400 ROF weapon, abysmal stats.
    The TR version gets nerfed a whopping 10 times! By removing 10 ROF each time, meaning it still is a massively OP 200 damage 800 ROF weapon.

    Now if I asked you which weapon would be OP, your reaction would be "not TR! Its been nerfed 10 times already!". But it doesnt matter how many nerfs its gotten, what matters is how good it is. And looking at these performance stats:
    https://voidwell.com/ps2/oracle?sta...02900&startDate=2016-07-07&endDate=2020-06-28

    The Vulcan is clearly, head-and-shoulders OP. Its a literal 2 to 3x more performance on most days compared to any of the other weapons in just about every single metric you can find. If the Vulcan isnt OP then no weapon has ever been OP.
    • Up x 4
  5. ChUnKiFieR

  6. MD_Geist

    It's over represented because the only reason to play TR is the BRRT weapons, which is a rule of cool choice, not a practical one. The statistics only reflect that and nothing more. Common man, that's basic ****. A majority sample is always going to be ones over represented in every category and citing it to try and support your argument is either just plain stupid or outright dishonest. Further shame on you for using ignorant new players like your personal army to support the idea.

    How about try to foster a positive atmosphere for your faction and organize instead, rather than supporting more of the rampant whining that drove this game into the ground? Maybe the NC will finally become real boys instead of a bunch of heavy and infil crutching tryhards that can't be bothered to open the map once in a while.
  7. Demigan

    What, you've got so little that you are already trying to discredit me instead of trying to come up with some factual data to prove your point? I have to believe that you checked the characters of people who liked my posts? Even if no one had liked them, facts remain facts. You cant say "ah but people on the TR do not like those facts so they must be false". Thats literal ignorance.

    Talking about factual data, the NC is about big damage and shotguns, which is the rule of cool choice so the Mjolnir is used in great numbe... wait no the Mjolnir is barely used and doesnt have half the performance of the Vulcan.
    Ok then shotguns must be used the most on the shotgun faction! Just check how many more shotguns the NC uses!
    https://voidwell.com/ps2/oracle?sta...75083&startDate=2016-07-07&endDate=2020-07-28

    Wait, the NC doesnt use a significantly more amount of shotguns? Where dem "rule of cool" at? How come the NC isnt even more powerful due to this rule of cool with the exact same weapons? Because thats what you've been saying: rule of cool and what the faction is about skew the stats causing it to look like its OP. But if thats the case why does it ONLY apply to the Vulcan and not things like the TR handheld chaingun?

    Oh, because maybe just maybe your "rule of cool and what the faction is about" is just some random thing that popped into your head to justify your obviously OP toy that sees more usage and more success than any other Harasser weapon in the game? Yeah that sounds about right. Dont insult me or the people who like what I say to try and get your point across. Try facts and arguments next time, you might look less like an deliberate ignoramus if you do.
    • Up x 2
  8. MD_Geist

    I actually play the game instead of complaining about it. I could walk into your house, show you on your own computer, to make you witness with your own two stupid eyeballs how a G20 vulcan performs when you're the one using it and you'd still cling to cherry picked statistics that don't actually mean anything on a faction where unlike yours, the vast majority of its unique weapons are just plain worse than the generic options. (Or you could watch a recent video of it, but I doubt you're that interested in genuinely analyzing the weapon.)

    Meanwhile NC enjoys more best in class weapons than the VS and TR combined, but no one really gives enough of a ****, myself included, to make long winded posts about it. The game is a parodied shadow of its former self, with cretins like you just waiting to indoctrinate what few new players it gets into your tradition of whinge that killed it in the first place.
  9. Demigan

    Ah its cherry-picked stats now. If its cherry-picked than you can find us stats that prove its not OP right?
    Unfortunately I gave you a site that lists a lot of data and its not as if the Vulcan is surpasses in ANY of those. So if "every single stat points to the Vulcan being superior" is cherry-picking I want to hear your definition of cherry-picking. Although its likely "if I disagree with you then you've cherry-picked" based on the evidence so far.

    Also you make the claim that the TR's unique weapons are on the whole worse, but can you actually prove that? Because you are making unsubstantiated claims and then turning around that all data provided has to be cherry-picked because you dont like it and it doesnt really help a healthy discussion. In fact its insulting that you belittle the work of others while not providing your own.
    Same for the NC having the most best-in-class weapons. Use Voidwell and it shouldnt be hard to prove right? Or are you just going to scream "BUT O THINK THIS IS TRUE SO THAT HAS TO BE THE TRUTH AND EVERYTHING ELSE IS A LIE"?

    If we are going to talk about cretins who ruin the game, how about we talk about people that protect extremely OP weapons in their ignorance? Or those same people hypocritically claiming things to convince (indoctrinate) new and old people that their obviously OP weapon is A-OK based on faith that you say the truth and your own inability to use the Vulcan (proven by your claim that if you came by my house that suddenly I would get worse with a Vulcan Harasser when you "show it" to me). In the meantime I dont ask you to believe me bases on faith or subjective experiences from a bad player, I ask you to look at the performance statistics that prove without a doubt that the Vulcan is OP.

    But hey, you are just going to insult me again arent you? Because you are defending something you cant defend and your only option is hope you can make me look bad.
    • Up x 1
  10. MD_Geist

    You keep writing all this 'hurrdurr poopoopeepee' about a weapon that might be (debatably) overpowered in harasser duels, a single insignificant aspect of the game absolutely no one cares about but the annoying weirdos who don't do anything but pull harassers. Which would not only impact the already comical performance of the bipolar mess that is the prowler, but set a precedent that would demand many NC weapons also be nerfed. (Namely the vortek rotary, undisputed king of the skies even dalton liberators fear.) That's all assuming you are correct, which you aren't, because the vulcan is not easy to use on a harasser.

    It requires a significant amount of leading with the velocity and trajectory of limpwristedly thrown paper airplanes, with a spread that prevents utilizing its full damage outside of near point blank range. The only advantage it has in the scenario in question is it would at least be able to do a little damage even if your aim is really inconsistent, preventing autorepair from triggering with sustained target contact. Which doesn't even factor into it unless said target is crewed by idiots who were going to lose to begin with relying on that. I really don't think I'm the one here with misguidedly destructive and dishonest intentions.

    I'm not sure what my intentions are here really. After seven years of listening to NC whining like spoiled children every time their hundred kill spree gets interrupted its just reflexive.
  11. Demigan

    What have we had so far? All the stats are cherry-picked, its a faction rule-of-cool favorite and now its suddenly "it might be OP against Harassers, whataboutism about NC weaponry and you arent correct".
    But you havent proven I am not correct. If you were then you could prove it. But your previous claims clash with each other. If its the faction rule-of-cool favorite as an explanation than that explanation is because there IS something going on with the Vulcan.
    Also about your claim for the Vortek:
    https://voidwell.com/ps2/oracle?sta...,4911&startDate=2019-09-18&endDate=2019-11-03
    https://voidwell.com/ps2/oracle?sta...,4911&startDate=2019-10-05&endDate=2019-11-20

    Funny how it isnt overperforming compared to the others. So once again you make a baseless claim.

    Unfortunately for you I have already used it in the game even before the Harasser buff and even then the Vulcan Harasser was powerful. Its not throwing paper airplanes, its spread isnt that bad and the point of ease-of-use is the consistency you can get attacking enemies. No Harasser has 100% hits at the rear of tanks, most of the time they Harass, whittling down the health at a bit of range so they are harder to hit. And despite not being made for longer range the Vulcan does excellent exactly because you can be guaranteed to have consistent and good amounts of damage, which is different from then other weapons.

    Also considering each claim you make isnt backed up and all stats I can find keep saying the opposite of your claims, should you really talk about misguided destructive dishonest intentions?

    And more insults rather than facts and arguments! I can do that too! You really are a sad man arent you? The NC might be able to make 100+killstreaks againt you but against anyone above the 25% bellcurve percentile that doesnt apply. And you are just so desperate at keeping that one toy that actually gives you a chance.

    Now can you actually prove anything or are you going to throw more verbal diarhea?
  12. Johannes Kaiser

    Okay, got to intercede here: Played on my TR toon 2 days ago with a guild buddy, he had JUST created the char, my Harrasser has pretty much no certs except for Vulcan. And I am not a good Harry driver, as I always get the short end of the stick from physics and tend to misjudge that. And pointing out AGAIN: my gunner hd absolutely ZERO prior experience with the weapon, and generally not that much in the game as a whole.
    We totally wrecked Vanguards. The one time we got destroyed was when there were other enemy vehicles nearby and we overextended by running between them. Felt contemptively easy, and about as cheap dirty as rollign in manure.
  13. Badman76

    Vulcans are abit op, BUT harassers can tank to much damage, 1 hit with an AP round should atleast set it on fire
  14. MD_Geist

    Boy you sure got me redditman. I bet you'll get all the likes and upvotes. All you actually have that's barely even tangible is some third party data, that as I pointed out for three posts in a row you absolute ******* tool, is skewed because its a popular weapon. Jesus Christ, you find a box of rocks in the desert and parade it around as smugly as humanly possible because you are absolutely certain its the ark of the covenant and the smoking gun to prove Jesus was an alien. You are an incredible moron. I shouldn't have to explain to you that this is an exaggeration and not a direct analogy, but you'll add that to your proud pile of evidence that you're winning anyways because like the vulcan's firing profile, this feels an awful lot like pissing in the wind.

    The only evidence that could be admissible here is actual testing of the weapon, which people have already done and found it doesn't stack up in TTK, the only factor that actually ******* matters in a PC FPS. It shouldn't be a surprise to you that the faction with the worst weapons is primarily played by people who just don't care about min/maxing, so stop attempting to project your tryhardism on me. I do not use harassers, I only pull prowlers when there's mass pulls, because a lone prowler is a free kill for A2G. The other thing you lemmings are always screeching about because you just can't get it through your thick ******* skulls you need to change roles and pull things AS NEEDED to address the situation and can't just godsaw adadadadada all day with some cancer implant combo.

    I didn't know harassers had been buffed by the way, well gee golly holy ******* ****, the VULCAN is the problem here and not harassers eating AP rounds like candy right? It isn't like harassers broke the ******* game by making it impossible to keep sunderers alive outside of zergs until they were adjusted to not be indestructible anymore. I'm tired... So very tired.
  15. Demigan

    Lets see. More insults. More ignorance as that "3rd party data" is created based on the game's own API data which the devs and their own sites also use but presented in different formats. You are also ignorant about why the Vulcan is popular in the first place, while its counterparts on the other factions arent popular or as good. You've failed once again to provide proof for your words, such as that your faction isnt a min/maxing group which is once again based on nothing.
    Also you basically admit that I have more experience on both the receiving end and using end of this weapon.

    And TTK is nowhere near the be-all and end-all. You should know that since you've brought up the accuracy of the weapon a few times already, which is part of the whole ease-of-use thing you fail to grasp.
    The Vulcan Harasser was OP before the Harasser was buffed. The buff just increased the problem. The fact that you didnt know it was buffed once again shows your utter lack of information on the part of the Harasser, disqualifying you once again from having any say at all about it.

    Now I understand you are tired, having several fantasies in a row while insulting me must do that. Go to sleep my toxic man, go to sleep.
    • Up x 1
  16. ChUnKiFieR

    Seriously, you crack me up Demigan.

    There is no smaller a mind than a closed one. Notice how the argument is changed when your point is almost realized? He's been programmed by society to do this with everything he doesn't like in life. It's actually not his fault. He himself doesn't know why he cannot explain his own opposite thinking in a rational manner to himself. So he lashes out in frustration. The last refuge of a lost discussion.
  17. ChUnKiFieR

    I should never feel this way about an enemy's gun. That when I know one is near, to just give up and stand there till they find me because I know I have no chance to win.

    So screw the stats you guys. That's how it is to play against that weapon.
    Stupid posts don't get this many views so I know I'm not alone.

    I'd be curious to see what the rage quit stats are for that gun. Bad for the bottom line DBG!
  18. Peebuddy

    Boy I've made a lot of posts throughout the years on this subject, what I believe it boils down to is a harrasser problem not a vulcan problem. Harrassers don't die, they're hard to hit and can take an absurd amount of AP shots to kill one. Simply reducing the amount of rounds to kill a harrasser by something as little as 1 round would dramatically change the vehicle meta, the TTK on the vulcan would have less value over burst fire weapons.

    Nerf the vehicle, not the gun
  19. MD_Geist

    I'm tired of QQside 2: The Neverending Rebalancening, not of berating you. I'm sorry but you are not a genius prodigy of game balance because you pointed out a trend. You aren't even qualified to comment on it at all. Here is why:

    TTK is the be-all end-all, with per shot damage (another strength monopolized by the NC's weapons) at a close second for reasons I won't get into here because it isn't in question. Factors like recoil (climb, not bloom) and target acquisition are nearly completely irrelevant to an experienced mouse and keyboard user. Very few people have difficulty pointing and clicking on things in general, its why its the dominant form of interface still. The only thing that's difficult to do with a mouse is consistently track and follow a moving target, especially if that requires a great deal of leading. That is why people duck, spam adadada, sprint and flail their mouse around, it just works for survival even against veteran players. The vulcan ironically requires consistent tracking while also accounting for leading by nearly half a widescreen length outside of nearly point blank range.

    If your target suddenly changes direction, you lose damage for every split second you don't perfectly adjust your aim in that direction. You only have to worry about this aim adjustment for a split second with the halberd every time it cycles. Same for the mjolnir and all its boring alternatives that mechanically work the same boring way but with more or less projectiles or some other dumb rehash gimmick. They're fundamentally easier to use to their full potential. I'd be much better served with a halberd on my prowler, in every single situation, including (disgustingly) anti-infantry because its ******edly easy to hit infantry with and is always a one hit kill with a headshot unlike the prowlers main gun for some unfathomable ******* reason. But I like having a vulcan and cavalry charging with it. Not just because the weapon is only useful at close range, but its fun. It goes brrt, like I said.

    When people want me to gun their harasser, I do, I just don't go out of my way to use one. Not many of them actually use vulcans, which makes me question the validity of your THIRD PARTY DATA WEBSITE, because that's what it is regardless of where they claim they collected that data from. It states right on the front page they are in no way affiliated with Daybreak and nothing there is official. I've used the vulcan extensively myself gunning for other diehard tankers and the only situation I felt it performed phenomenally well in was against a magrider rush. A situation prowlers wouldn't normally be able to pull out of with a win and it was because of the vulcans close range superiority.

    TL:DR: You are being outgunned by better players who don't feel the need to pick a faction based on who has better gun stats.
  20. MD_Geist

    It seems like we're in the second coming of the harasserpocalypse and no one gives a **** this time because all thats left are whales and their harassers.

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