G-AMS & Vehicles Spawn Needs Greater Restrictions

The 15s timer to spawn timer into undeployed AMS & G-AMS is way too short and needs to be 5 minutes. You know what this feels like, it feels likes BF4's horrible spawn system were your squad is constantly spawning on the squad leader and popping out of no where.

This is a horrible mechanic to begin with, because the vehicles do not have to commit to a location & deploy for troops to spawn in. It may seem trivial, but this mechanic really takes away tactical decisions of deploying or not deploying & dumbs the game down.

The 15s respawn timer is also incredibly to short, while I am not a fan of allowing troops to spawn into an undeployed vehicle allowing them to do it every 15s is a horrendous idea. This needs to be changed to at least 5min.

5 minutes is ridiculous. You might as well just take it out of the game completely at that rate.

The flip side of this argument is that Squad Spawning should get preference. This game is built around organized team play and should encourage it in every way. By that mode of thinking, squad spawning in vehicles should get priority and empire spawning at deployed AMSs should get a longer spawn time. I'd like to see spawn times look like this:

Empire Spawn at base: 10 seconds
Squad Spawn on vehicle: 15 seconds
Empire Spawn at AMS: 20 seconds
Squad Spawn on Beacon: 30 seconds (max certed)

This tips spawn bias towards defenders, then organized squads, and finally zerg spawns.

There's nothing wrong with squad AMSs being able to spawn on the run. You say it takes away tactical choices, but it actually adds to the choices. now you have the additional decision to have a stationary target that spews reinforcements or have a mobile spawn with a very limited number of players to spawn.

This is a TEAM game.

I rarely agree with you, but this I wholeheartedly stand by.

What this does is creates metagame for air that doesn't involve farming ground forces. It's the necessity we've been asking for since beta, without the air>ground (we've been missing since GU01 ). Any reduction in its potency is simply a reduction in the point of air existing.

I don't think it should be changed at all, save for PERHAPS one thing... Ammo.

I'm not a 'bring back NTUs' PS1 vet, but I -am- a 'let's keep changing the pace of a fight' kinda person. I think you should be able to do, say, 60 (arbitrary; 600? I don't know how much these things are used!) spawns on a squad gal (5 spawns per person) before it needs to hit up an air pad for 'ammo'. This would add a logistics tail to the infantry dominance we currently have, and introduce interesting possibilities to strike Galaxies away from their friendly AA (if they're supporting a zerg, they're likely to be untouchable otherwise).

Thoughts?

Make it share a cooldown with the squad beacon (including equivalent duration). Think that's reasonable.

We went from the G-AMS having no spawn abilities to it allowing squad members to respawn on it every 15s, having it placed on the same timer we used to have for squad deploy is far from ridicules.

I understand this is a team game, what I think you are not realizing it that this is incredibly OP. I have a 10K Cert Galaxy and I am a member of an outfit that has some of the best players in this game. It is going to take ALOT of firepower & manpower to dislodge us, from a target we decide to take.

As for squads spawning into AMS, there are no additional tactics, it reduces to just one tactic which is every one goes HA every one hops out and suicide rushes the enemy as I drive my Sunderer evasively, keeping pressure on our attacker and as my infantry squad kill and die, they spawn back into my sunderer jump out and keep suicide rushing the enemy until we defeat them. We don't need medics, because as the heavies die they just spawn back into the sunderer, rinse and repeat. Roll with 2 Proxy repair sunderers and 2 squads and this is going to be absolutely devastating, why role MBT, Lightnings or anything else?

I am not going to be getting into some of the other grossly OP tactics this opens up, because I really hope this gets changed before these tactics get out, but this is easily the absolute biggest change to this game in a year and its potential for abuse is HUGE and new players or those that aren't running in organized veteran squads are going to get rolled with little to no chance. Sure other veteran organized squads are going to be able to cope, but everyone else is going to be cannon fodder.

But you are mistaken, this makes it even worse. Galaxies are absolute beasts at suppressing infantry, coupled with the fact that they are also very good at defending themselves against Air and now they can position themselves over the points of interest and drop troops continuously on a 15s timer is a real game changer and not for the better.

The only change that will restrain this mechanic is require the squad leader to be in the Galaxy & put it on the same timer as we currently have for squad deploy. That way the squad leader can hop out put down a beacon, then get back in. Then his squad can use either the Beacon or the Galaxy, but 5 min timer for both.

I completely disagree. It doesn't make it worse. It necessitates air support to counter their air power, whilst neither are the great offender on the ground. This is what air has been needing since GU01; if you reduce it to squad deploy levels, it represents absolutely no additional value as a target or as a squad member, both removing there finally being an air-based metagame, and the extra utility that people have been asking for for the Galaxy since launch.

I honestly haven't used the ability in a long time, but can you still drop pod onto your squad leader? If so, what purpose is squad deploy in a Galaxy if I can just spawn on my squad leader for exactly the same effect, and just as frequently? Quality of life because I spawn in the vehicle instead of a drop pod so I can use it if I'm late getting back to the warpgate? Big whoop. Back to there being no reason for air to exist.

I have an almost 100% battle gal, and can fly indefinitely if I've dropped my troops, as there's simply no reason to waste your ESF taking me on unless I start ramming. Now there is; I actually present a threat to the only objective that matters; territory.

You over estimate the survivability of AMSs and Gals. Being mobile and evasive will help to keep them alive, but it's not a panacea. Last night we had a HUGE wave of TR attack Eisa Tech, and they must have brought at least 20 AMSs. All died, most before ever being deployed. All had prowlers, lightnings, and support sundys backing them up. I got a front row seat from my phalanx turret. Waves of them were destroyed by the defending tanks long before they got close enough to start dropping off troops.

Coordinated team tactics should be OP. They should be the most OP thing in the game. Anything that increases the power of coordinated teams is a good thing. Look at the same tactic you are so worried about being carried out by a "Random Squad". On guy gets a sundy and starts circling a base. As squad members die, they respawn and immediately jump out of the sundy and go running into the base one or two at a time. They will be cut down just as easily as if they were coming from an AMS. Last night the VS were trying to make the Galaxies a viable deployment method, but we were hammering them with AA and AV fire from the tech plant and they were getting very little loiter time over the drop zone.

You're right in that the devs have given us players a powerful tool, but it still requires discipline to use. You take the same squad sundy (or galaxy) and have squad members hold in the vehicle until they have enough to make a fire team before disembarking and only then does this tool begin to shine.

I find it ironic that I am currently without an Outfit and you are in an organized Outfit and we're on the sides of this issue that we are. It makes little sense for you to be arguing against something that increases you organizations effectiveness on the battlefield. This is a new paradigm and Outfits will need to adapt to it. Gone are the days when sending suicide bombers to blow one or two stationary AMSs would staunch the flow of attackers. Now you're just going to have to get out ther eand run those AMSs down.

The Galaxy with the ability to spawn a squad members every 15s is an incredible force multiplier, especially for veteran groups that are working together on TS. The big issue is in small / Medium sized fights and/or at smaller outposts. The Galaxy completely by passes any ground choke points or defense points, it also is one of the best vehicles in this game to suppress ground troops.

So I am going to be able to by pass any natural or defensive barriers, place myself in a superior position over or around a base, easily drop 9 ground troops on the target while retaining 2 gunners to either suppress enemy infantry or Air attacks all the while, if those ground troops are killed they are only out of the fight for 15s till they can respawn back in my Galaxy, which because of the spawn mechanic is probably closer and in better position, then the defenders which are probably farther away from the point of interest and need to contended with my 10 rounds bulldogs pounding them on the ground.

The only legitimate threat I have is if they abandon the ground fight and bring in multiple ESF and liberators to contend with me, which is what is going to be needed, since not only are my dual maxed Walkers going to crush any other air vehicle in a 1 vs 1 fight, I am also going to have ground troops underneath me with Lock-on rockets to help.

Thus one squad in a Galaxy in which they can spawn in ever 15s is going to require at least that number if not 2x as many defenders coordinating to stop this attack.

My gripe is that the 15s spawn timer is too quick. A 5 minute timer is more then reasonable and it would not take away from the "air meta" game people think this is going to create. When in actuality, the game is going to shift from a ground zerg based game to an Air zerg based game. And let me tell you a ground zerg is much easier to content with then an Air zerg.

I dont see anywhere why its an issue and i have read your opinion which is just that opinion with nothing else.

A moving sundy or hovering gal is a pretty juicy target in this game. Its been one day and so far, I have played battle gal with coordinated players and randoms. I have flown reaver against air squads and played as tanks and AA rocket infantry against people like INI. I have had no issues like you claim and i play on a bloody great server with amazing population.

The stuff you claim is happening, just isn't. It might do but so far I'm just not seeing it. I lie in fact. INI pulled 10 or so mozzies last night at TI alloys with a gal. Within 2 minutes their whole airforce was grounded due to mass lock ons and bursters and they were doing the Sunderer/foot attack. Now if their sunderer was driving about it wouldn't have made a single bit of difference except less random infantry helping them and we couldve killed them more easily via locks ons instead of fighting through their force to c4. I think you need to wait a week or so because currently your opinion isn't translating to actual gameplay.

to be frank you seem like a drama queen. Give it a while before prancer sizing about shouting "FIRE" in an effeminate voice ok?

5 minutes would be ridiculous. I could pull a new Galaxy in that time frame. Might as well have everyone jump from the Galaxy and let it crash. It would be the one-hit-wonder it was prior to the patch.

Its not like its dropping endless MAX suits. It generally drops only 9 guys all at one or individuals over time.

5min spawn timer?

Not a fan at all tbh. I would like to play the game when i open it

Whilst this WILL make lives more valued for and people will look out more, this is waaay too much. The average life of a player is probably 40seconds

Dumbs the game down? Welcome to Lattice and SOE making code changes because people whine about dying to too many tanks and shotguns.

DUMBING down is a part of PS2, like ketchup and hotdogs. AMS spawning timer update isn't going to help with the bigger problems.

And you under estimate the survivability of the Galaxy and the Sunderer and I think we are on opposite sides of this argument, because I am in an coordinated veteran outfit and I understand exactly what type of damage we are going to be able to do with these new mechanics on these vehicle platforms, because we were absolutely devastating with them before this change. Now, it is going to take even more players to take us out.

I am all for promoting Team play, but allowing troops to spawn into these vehicles without having to stop and deploy and allowing it to happen every 15s is way overboard and coordinated veteran outfits are going to be that much more devastating especially against those that are just pugging it. A 5 minute respawn timer is more then reasonable, it promotes team play and keeping together as a group, but it is no where near as OP as allowing groups to spawn virtually anywhere from any direction every 15s.

Lattice didn't dumb the game down, it was much dumber with the HEX, because their was only offensive tactics and virtually no defensive tactics. Allowing squads to deploy on these vehicles with little to no restrictions is a huge mistake.

I think 30-45 seconds on the squad vehicle would be appropriate but then again a bit limiting for the galaxy because of how exposed it is. On the other hand I think the sunderer having undeployed spawn is completely OP at amp stations where there is still the single point system. This allows an endless spawn of a squad(s) as long as they can keep the sundie(s) alive. It's nice not to have to abide by the rules of those stupid non-deploy areas but there needs to be a line drawn somewhere.

OK, we will see. I remember what it was like in Beta and while this is slightly more restricted since it is squad only, but when you guys realize how incredible difficult these mechanics are going to be to defend against, since they are such force multipliers, then you will understand my concerns.

As I stated before the biggest issue is going to be in the small and mid sized engagements. But this is a real game changer and as you stated it is my opinion and I believe this going to be a real nightmare, from my past experience with the G-AMS, my playing last night, we already came up with many new tactics that are going to be next to impossible to counter with out over whelming coordinated responses. We will be fine as will most of the veteran coordinated outfits, but everyone else is going to get demolished.

That's the most sensible thing to do.

It was meant to allow squadmates who just logged on to join their squad in the transport vehicle. And at some point Higby decided his G-AMS was the best thing since sliced bread and reintroduced it anyway

As others have said, same timer as a beacon would be a good start.

Also, no spawning in no deploy zones. You know, because that was such an issue the devs implemented a barrier to it. Sometimes you really have to wonder if they're just throwing darts at a board.

Thats my #1 reason I dont like BF4. There is no defined front and people are just spawning all over the place. Almost all of my deaths in that game are from either spawning on an ally who just got ambushed or spawning and getting shot in the back by sneak-n-spawn. Its a simple fact that a lone soldier can get places an entire team may fail to reach due to the 'visbility' and higher profile of 6 men running somewhere as opposed to one guy taking his time to properly flank. An entire team should not be able to just appear on the one guy, ever. Its a terrible spawn mechanic and the main reason I greatly dislike playing BF4.