Flak VS Kinetic Armor for Indoor fights? Survivability? Does someone who has used both at least 20% Flak and 4% Kinetic see a difference in overall survivability in large indoor fights? Rockets kill me a lot and partial grenade blasts and explosives take chunks of health here and there and its hard to tell what would benefit more, Obviously when facing just small arms the Kinetic is great, but say after 100 battles how many times did explosives play more of a roll? Just seeking opinion's as I am certing another faction max and do not have a ton of spare certs to try both. I can say 4% Kinetic is pretty decent and noticeable so according to numbers you go from 80% small arms resist to 84% which ends up being like 20% improvement.
for indoor fights like biolabs and tech plants, kinetic armour hands down. If you find yourself dying to rockets alot inside you're doing something wrong, though c4 can be hard to avoid from a skilled user (and fairly easy to avoid from anyone else). Thankfully skilled users are extremely rare, so you can usually operate with impunity. Grenades should also be a nonfactor, as they're quite easy to avoid... except for concussion grenades, which obviously eat maxes for breakfast. 95%+ of the damage I take in indoor fights as a max is from small arms, I'm not sure why flak armor would be considered in these circumstances.
I realize its an odd question. I did go straight for Kinetic early on. It could be because I am also considering it offensively, I would say defensively definitely Kinetic 100%. I do manage to avoid C-4 and grenades and mow down the LA or Eng/Medic who tries it a great deal, but the HA rocket does get me at times more than I would like admit. And I am not dying often directly due to grenades or C-4 but I do catch some splash damge here and there. I would say more when using MAX AI offensively say in Tech or Bio. I already find Kinetic more useful as Max AA as I avoid most incoming air explosions and it is usually some stray enemies that are shooting at me with small arms. So I guess its more when you are trying to push that you end up more susceptible to the HA's rockets in particular. Am I the only one? Because I definitely survive the small arms (probably due to the kinetic) and always try to stay at full health but its the rockets that get me in the end. Here is one scenario. You have the NC maxes in Bio around the corner at the landing pad opening, the distance is far enough as you go in for a drop in damage for the NC Max and possible shot misses, but the hail of explosives as you try to get in is huge, rockets everytime. Making it really hard to get through the door. Think uncoordinated attempt.
I just finished my Kinetic Armor 5 cert the other night, and although I don't have any statistical data, I can tell you that I've seen a substantial improvement in how durable I am at indoor fights and fighting infantry in general. I find myself in most battles taking damage from small arms rather than explosions. Although, if I get killed quick it's always going to be from C4 or an NC hacksaw MAX, but other than that I'm personally happy with the investment into completing Kinetic Armor. In my opinion every bit helps, and when I have good engineers backing me up along with Kinetic, I can stay engaged in a fight for long periods at a time. Answering the question about pushing and being susceptible to HA's rockets, I hate having my MAX in the open without supporting infantry, because of those types of attacks.
Wish I could redo the heading. lol. Can Flak Armor be more of a benefit on the offensive in some situations for the big bases, and not just for AV/AA. Overall I do believe and agree Kinetic is superior for most indoor battles, and even 4% was very noticeable.
I'd say they're situational. If you're going AA and you know you have infantry back up, go for flak as you will be dealing with Zephyrs and rocket pods. I have lvl 4 kinetic and lvl 3 flak so...
I certed into full flak armor first just for my burster load-out but it works well in larger infantry fights. Lately I've found a lot of heavies have purchased the decimator and whip it out every chance they get. It isn't terribly hard to dodge missiles but the closer they are the more likely it is you'll take one to the face. My advice would be to ask yourself how many times you've died to explosives versus gunfire and you'll get a general answer. Feel free to cert both however, if the course of the battle changes you can always run to a terminal to switch out your armor.
Well, i have kinetic fully certed, I have to say it really help on Biolabs, and all indoor encounter. It should be buffed to 15% imho, but it isnt the subject. Someone said that if we die from rockets, I am doing something wrong, I would say otherwise : On Miller, when I put my suit on, ALL HEAVYS ARE ROCKETING ME! I am almost jocking, but it is true. It is rocketfest, and I die more from rockets than bullets (I have Kinetic AND an engineer repairing me) So Heavy and C4 users are kamikazing, because they know we will run over their bodys in the next few seconds if they allow our MAXXES to live. That said, I dont think i will be using FLAK over Kinetic, because for 1 Rocket, there is 10 guys who shooting at me with small weapons.
Kinetic is your best choice for AI in most situations. If you are serious about MAX play, you will spec both Kinetic and Flak. If you play AV and AA too, then make flak your first priority.
Thanks, its good to know I am not the only one getting the kamikaze annihilators, its obvious they do not care about dying as long as they get a hit on you. The longer you survive and rack up kills the more likely this tactic gets used on you. The C-4 carriers regardless of class are far easier to stop (I always watch over my head too) as is the kamikaze engineer-mine drop. The reason I was asking is currently I have no subscription for increased cert gain and I am trying to cert up both opposing Maxes and really have to choose carefully. I went straight for kinetic on VS, but because I also play other classes I did not have the certs to try both. I did do the triple sc but that went to VS weapons as I did not spend my certs on them. So I was trying to decide which armor to cert on the other Maxes as I doubt I will play enough to cert both types on each. Also since the double xp is done I am currently having the slowest cert gain, mostly due to the fact my certs came more from battles and large amounts of kills vs the defenseless base cap which nets far less even with the occasional boring spawn kills. I also do not Lib. So thank you for the input. I will do a subscription to help with the certs when I find employment, lol. Really I have the time to play (and forum) because I am out of work, but my cash flow is very tight, savings goes quickly paying bills with no job. Back to rewriting my resume and job surfing...................
Depends a lot on the scale imo and the role. I fight the biggest battles I can get to and that means a crap ton of explosive spamming from every direction and too many LAs to not die from C4. Don't forget that many people gladly suicide to get a Max kill. Technically, against infantry we are front fighters taking a lot of damage from both weapons and explosive. However, while small arms can be somewhat negated by positioning and a good engineer with tool 6, the rockets in the face will mow you down in seconds especially with the abundance of noobs playing the faceroll HA with the broken OP Decimators. Then there is the 2 other roles which are anti-vehicle and anti-air which require Flak armor for sure. Also I find kinetic to be too small of a upgrade I mean 5%... Anyway overall I really find Flak to be better than kinetic in most situations.
I am curious how 4% that is 80-84% is a 20% reduction? sounds like 4% more to me. I am also curious how 5% at lvl 5 is a big difference. If you have 2000hp that is an effective 100hp difference and you can notice it? Its more likely better engineer with certed gun that is butt plugging you. (my MAX will still 2 shot you ) I can tell you flak armor for me is the biggest noticeable difference. I survive the lib/ESF trying to kill me as burster, i survive 4grenades(2ticks left), 2 rockets in the face(2ticks left) , prox mines are about like grenades. I notice these, i can not tell the difference when i am wearing kinectic 4 an consider it a waste, still hoping for them to at least double it.
OK it's obviously time to break out the basic math. A MAX has 80% resistance to small arms fire, that means 20% of the damage gets through. The additional 1% means one from 20. 1 = 5% of 20, are you still with me? Good. So assuming MAX units have 2000 health, rank 4 kinetic armour gives you an effective 2400 health vs. small arms fire, up to a maximum of 2500 at rank 5. Which, I'm sure you'll agree, is quite significant. However, narrowing it down to merely a health number is less relevant, relative to regular infantry, and not very helpful. Seeing as how 20% gets in by default, that makes 2000 health equate to an effective 10000 (with 0 resist) health vs small arms fire.. Needless to say, 25% resistance bonus is a buttload.
It's because you're an NC MAX... Anyone and their mother will try to take you out with any means available to them. TR MAX units are close behind you, but VS MAX units are laughable. TR repeaters can outgun us...
All very excellent posts and useful information. Thanks for contributing. Seems mostly Kinetic for overall use, but certain situations aside from the AV/AA role can benefit from flak. I guess its up to how many kamikaze explosives/HA people you are facing. I also worry as time goes on and more people get the highest damage rocket and more get explosives that it may get worse? But that is a guesstimate. The ridiculous thing is someone can spawn a zero resource HA and suicide for a MAX kill. If only death had repercussion, like say no xp or reduced xp for a MAX kill if you die in the attempt. Unfortunately with the patch and Max rendering I will have to get Flak Armor also for any Max AA I decide to field. I stood away from the other Maxes and used trees or buildings for cover and rarely got Libbed or rocketpodded, so I thought I could get away with no flak. But with the new render I do not believe I have a choice now.
You've got 2000 health default, 20% resistance. That means it's worth 10000 0 resistance health comparitively. Because you simply multiply 2000 by 5, as 20% x 5 = 100%. To calculate pure non resistance health with full kinetic armour, which allows only 15% damage through, your 2000 is then equivalent to 15%, 2000 is 15% of 13333.33. Which put like this, is a 33.3% boost! Still think Flak is a better investment?
You are NC, so of course you get rocketed. Rockets from all directions, preferrably simultaneous, so we insta-kill you before you insta-kill us. There is practically no other option! Pretty sure I rocketed you just the other day. I will continue to do so!
Ok i see your pt with 80% default. you get 1% per level, 81,82,83,84,85 kin4-kin5 is still 1% better mitigation (but 6% more bullets) A much easier way to see the difference is below, so order of operations doesn't get in the way. And actually shows how good kinetic really is when not everyone knows the 80% without any. ----------------------- 2000 health gauss saw = 200dmg - 85% = 30damage = 66.666 bullets so = 67 bullets to kill 2000 health gauss saw = 200dmg - 84% = 32damage = 62.5 bullets to kill so = 63 2000 health gauss saw = 200dmg - 83% = 34damage = 58.82 bullets so = 59 2000 health gauss saw = 200dmg - 82% = 36damage = 55.55 bullets so = 56 2000 health gauss saw = 200dmg - 81% = 38damage = 52.63 bullets so = 53 2000 health gauss saw = 200dmg - 80% = 40damage = 50 bullets to kill kin0 to kin5 is a 17 bullet difference not bad but kin4-kin5 is only a 4 bullet difference a lot for the certs of last level. 63 bullets to 67 bullets is a 6% increase over lvl 4 and 0 - 4 = 19% more bullets 0 - 5 = 25% more bullets (actually way better than the 5% title leads you to believe at first glance) used gauss since 200 is easy to calculate
This is mainly a reply to the op, but I put that top one in because it highlights what I think to be the problem. Like I said, if you're dying often to rockets you're doing something wrong, and these highlight what I'm talking about fairly well... Both are examples of using the max in such a way that essentially begs "PLEASE ROCKET ME" because you've broadcasted your location and intent to the enemy, and it's become blatantly obvious that rockets are the way to go. These are not situations you want to put yourself in as a max!! even if you had flak armour, this is bad! You're not a walking tank, you're not there to just indiscriminantly break any line, you need to be smart in your engagements. You have substantial durability, but not enough to stand down an army. Sometimes you cant really avoid this, in which case you basically just need to wait for your moment to strike, which will be after you or your infantry backup have inflicted a significant hole in their defences. Unless you're maintaining momentum, you dont want to broadcast that you're a max with a dedicated engie, keep the engie back and not healing you in combat, the enemy will feel alot less threatened and less likely to go only with rockets. If you don't control the engies, you're just going to have to play it slow and safe, bait their rockets, then counter to the best of your ability. And as for the flight pad battle (from outside to in) just avoid it, that's not a good spot for maxes, use the teleports to strike their less defended and more max friendly locations. The flight pad battles are generally only places for the newer players to fight, they only ever try to hold the line, and have no concept of pushing, so they drag on endlessly. You can accomplish much more from the teleports 99% of the time. The max's weapons dont make them good for defending infantry in a close battle, and dont excel in a drawn out mid-long range battle with little potential for being able to make it to forward cover. If you don't play to your strengths, you get rocketed. If you really dont play to them, you get rocketed alot.
