Fix the Vanguard it's the worst tank

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Demigan, Aug 16, 2020.

  1. Demigan

    The other two tanks have their own threads so I thought I'd stick up for the Vanguard.

    • It can tank more shots by default.
    • It's ability makes it tank more shots.
    • It has 25m/s more projectile velocity for all it's main guns compared to it's counterparts.
    • It's the thinnest tank from the front.
    • It's combination of speed, acceleration and mobility make it the slowest tank on the battlefield unless you are going in a straight line for long periods of time.
    • Higher damage per shot is meaningless if you can't leverage it somehow.
    • It's the longest tank.
    • It's ES topguns are bland or horrible.
    • The Lightning is better (obligatory reference as both other threads say this as well).
    • It's got the lowest skill ceiling.
    • The only time it's main advantage helps the tank is when it's getting hit, rather than when the pilot does something good.
    A few suggestions to make the Vanguard more enjoyable to play (and fight against):
    • The Vanguard isn't the best at any type of mobility. Give it the best reverse-speed and acceleration.
      • As an additional option, give the Vanguard more weight and horsepower, allowing it to push other vehicles out of the way or damage them while ramming.
    • Almost nobody likes the shield. Remove it and give something other in return.
      • The concept art shown at the end has some idea's. Close-in air-burst munitions, a deploy-mode where it becomes an artillery piece (could work like a dialed down Flail), 20mm auto-canons in control of the driver to deal with light vehicles (Harassers, ESF) and infantry, reactive tracks that can deploy digging flaps for more grip on terrain.
    • The main gun is a railgun, use that! Allow the Vanguard to charge it's main gun for higher damage per shot, higher velocity and the ability to penetrate vehicles and infantry at the cost of DPS if you charge it up.
    • According to the lore the NC are about experimental gadgets and weaponry, not just shotguns and big calibers. Add some things that lean into that!
      • Give them a short-ranged electric whip to deal with enemy armor at close range, overuse could cause the whip to ground itself into the Vanguard and cause it damage instead.
      • Allow the Vanguard to alter it's ammunition on-the-fly. It would still be AP/HEAT/HESH but how the shell acts would be different. For example you can switch the shell to Canister, making your gun a large shotgun that preserves the original shell's traits. HESH would have the most explosive power per pellet and AP the least, but AP would have the highest velocity etc.
      • Allow the Vanguard to teleport, using Nanites to disassemble and assemble again somewhere else. As experimental technology the Vanguard loses health upon each use (let's say 1000 health) as it's not put together correctly. The accuracy of the teleportation isn't perfect, so the Vanguard will teleport in a circle of a few meters along the ground of the targeted area, 0,5m off the ground (to ensure you don't fall through the map). Teleportation would naturally not be instant and would use sounds and minimap icons to alert VS and TR of nearby teleportation. Probably best as LOS teleportation.
      • Laser guided shells could help with accuracy, with the shells having a small ability to move left or right as it flies.
      • A concussive shell for support duties could work wonders. Deals little damage to vehicles but does cause a concussive effect even on people inside one. Also has an AOE to concuss infantry with. Does sacrifice one normal shot for this one.
    Just make the Vanguard better, it's the worst performing MBT right now.
    • Up x 4
  2. Liewec123

    I do like the idea of increasing horsepower and letting it push stuff,
    Its supposed to be slow and strong, so it should be able to boss stuff around!

    I have vanguard buff ideas too!
    At the end of the month (29th to be exact!) It will be a year since Wrel gave magriders free magburner,
    and TR recieved their niche but useful shield (and NC got a massively inferior version of auto repair)

    On that day vanguard became the only MBT without an inherent ability,
    All magriders have magburner, all Prowlers have anchor

    So on the 29th i'll be posting a suggestion (on reddit where a dev might actually read it.)
    To not only change the utterly trash Numbnutz Reactor, but also make it default!

    So let's make numbnutz better and default!

    A few ideas:

    Regenerative shield
    Rather than a delay before repair kicks in, it is constant (obviously healing for much less per second)

    Meaty shield
    Rather than replacing health the shield is simply added ontop and increases over time after a delay
    when not taking damage (like sunderer shield) up to 2000

    Brawler shield
    The shield replaces 50% of the tanks health, delay before repair begins is much shorter (2/3 secs)

    Combat shield
    The shield recharges by 25% of damage done with the main gun
    Hit a tank with the 850 damage AP round? Get 212 shield

    Vanguard shield
    The shield is reworked entirely, it now activates a free Vanguard Shield when the tank reaches 30% health
    (doesn't stack with regular vanguard shield, has 1.5 min cooldown)
    • Up x 2
  3. Demigan

    You can also use a health regen based on a Capacitor: Instead of X health per second regenerated, the shield will simply instantly refill itself after X seconds. This can either be X seconds in combat or X seconds out of combat.

    Or rather than a shield, let it still count as regular health so Engineers can still repair it. One of the big problems with NumbNutz is how players who try to repair up can be penalized for not being able to repair that last 1000 health of their tank and wait for a normal recharge, while if they took NAR they would have a miniscule window where NumbNutz was superior (we are talking about 500 health difference maximum and diminishing to 0 health superior in a few seconds) but only if they never got the chance to manually repair the tank with their repair gun.
    • Up x 1
  4. Liewec123

    true, its ironic because i think the only purpose of numbnutz was to try to cut down repair time
    by giving the engies a smaller healthpool to repair,
    but that silly little 1000 shield takes a full 20 seconds (without taking any damage) to regenerate!
    making downtime to get the tank back to full much, much longer!

    i do like the idea of keeping it a shield though, and not health, because then we could also run NAR
    and with some of my ideas above (like the shield replacing 50% of the health)
    your shield could be taking hits while NAR is active and repairing
    and when you get out of combat the combination of health and shield both regenerating will be great :)

    i'd like to say that it blows my mind how Numbnutz has stayed in such a useless state for an entire year,
    but honestly, its exactly what i expect from Wrel, magriders got their magburner, thats all that matters!
  5. karlooo

    Hey guys I got another Prowler rework:
    The TR lore says they have top of the line equipment, newest technology and their Prowler is supposed to be the fastest.

    So what if the Prowlers max speed got increased to 120 KPH and had an ability which deploys wings and turns it into a Liberator because they are so technologically advanced.

    OH HAHAHAHA I'm so funny!
  6. karlooo

    No, the TR MBT is perfectly fine. It is necessary to have an Anti-Air / Artillery tank / Main Battle Tank with double 120mm guns. There is no problem with it, it's fine as it is.
  7. Blam320

    How about we give every vehicle in the game a regenerating shield by default like in PS1? On top of that, maybe add vehicle energy capacitors similar to the pre-PlanetSide game Tanarus for using abilities. Then the Nimitz Reactor becomes a tool that enables faster shield recharge and a slow ability capacitor recharge as well.
  8. adamts01

    I think its biggest problem is it's top guns. Why on Earth did they change the way the Enforcer reloads? the MJ needs some serious love in the ease of use department. Let the Cannister be a slower firing Air Hammer maybe?
    • Up x 2
  9. Clone117

    Wouldnt mind seeing that shield active duration time get extended to 20 secs rather than 8.
  10. karlooo

    You know, the Vanguard is a heavy tank, breakthrough tank...The picture even say it:
    Weight: Heavy
    Top Speed: 45 KPH
    Radar Structure: Large
    Handling: Poor
    150mm siege gun

    (In game it has nearly equal speed to the Prowler)

    So why do you want better speed, specifically best reverse speed. Its design is a breakthrough tank, it isn't supposed to just back out.
    If anything the Prowler needs to back out. It's a glass cannon and cause of this its gameplay is basically a dice roll. You go into enemy lines with no knowledge of anything and hope you'll take out at least one enemy armor with you....That's a stupid design!
    The Prowler is an Anti-Air / Artillery Tank / Main Battle Tank....WTF is that!?
  11. Trigga

    Positioning, awareness, tactics, aiming skill and trigger discipline are far far more important to the tank gameplay than any minor imbalance you can find.
  12. Crayv

    Two of those things are superior on one MBT over the others, it can position FAR better than the other two and you have to have much better aim to hit it as it strafes side to side.

    The more similar tanks are the more important the remaining differences are.

    They should give the tanks MAJOR differences. The Vanguard should have 3x more direct damage, splash radius, and reload so it doesn't fire very often but when it does it HURTS. The shield should be a constant regen so it gives it an advantage in prolonged fights.

    Give the Magrider a jump and let it hover down cliffs (won't die from falls and basically impossible to flip). Give it two fire modes for adaptability on the field. It won't win any head on fights but it can gain advantages through terrain and having the right tool for the job via the fire modes.

    TR's should have much faster RoF, be an auto loader so it reloads even while shooting, and be given a burst fire mode like the rocklet rifle. Let it move closer to Harasser speeds so it becomes a nightmare of a hit and run tank.
  13. Demigan

    These all depend on the vehicle you are using. A Lightning is much smaller, lower and is a common-pool vehicle. This all makes it easier to position in some area's by using it's low frame, it's awareness needs to be different than that of say a Magrider who does not have to fear MBT's suddenly attacking you from terrain that only a Magrider can cross and the fact that it's a common-pool vehicle makes it easier to fool the awareness of your enemies who might not realize you are hostile if you are entering the battlefield from "their" territory.

    A Prowler has great acceleration and speed, which makes it's positioning much easier than that of a Vanguard. Awareness also depends on what you can do. A Harasser needs much less awareness of a situation as it has the option to escape if it misjudged a situation, where the Vanguard for example has no such option and needs to be more aware of situations before he enters them.

    The tactics also differ, like a Magrider and Harasser that has much more terrain available to them or the Prowler which has better long-range tactical options and also great mobility to reposition. The Vanguard's main advantage that you could use tactically is it's ability to get hit more often, rather than abilities that when you actively use it will benefit you constantly.

    You are also missing part of the point here: It's not just about balance, although that is a big part of it, it's also about making the Vanguard a more fun tank to play with. Currently it's the least capable of Positioning and tactics as it's the most limited in the mobility department.
    • Up x 1
  14. Trigga

    I agree with everything you said (except for you implication that the lightning is as good as an MBT).

    And i still think the tanks are fine; the van needs no buff, and that the mag / prowler are fine as is.

    Additional point: I dont trust the developers to not completely screw up the vehicle game if they try to mess with it.
    CAI anyone?? Ye, we still havent recovered from that....and never will.

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