Fix the nc max

This stems from a fundamental misunderstanding of Cone of Fire mechanics.
The numbers you highlighted are the starting CoF values. But while a conventional gun fires a bullet inside that cone, a shotgun merely places an ephemeral 'centerpoint' in that position. The actual pellets are then spread around that point, based on the shotgun's spread value. So your assumption of dealing 300 damage to a single target at 18m with buckshot is not realistic. You'd be lucky to reliably hit 1 or 2 pellets at that range.

why don't we give shotguns to other maxes? I wonder how vocal NCs outcry would be

does an emp nade take out the NC MAX shield???

Naaah, screw shotguns! I want flamers like those were given to TR Flash. They friggin melt MAXes!

OMG if it would shut you all up, do it!

Equally if we gave you ONLY shotguns what would YOU do? /eyeroll

No.

Heck I'm surprised EMP grenades don't take down vehicle barriers they are so OP.

Put 12 of them on every choke point with medic and engy support and easily hold point rooms?

And you can't do that with TR/VS maxes?

I mean if you can't that's ok. I know outfits that can though. As I mentioned earlier TR was the first ones I saw perfect this.

Pretty much what I already do on NC. Slugs4lyfe. Criminally underrated and everyone seem to be completely taken by surprise. Also, it is the one setup which is by far the best defence against the RL HA. A couple of sluggers supported by engineers have both the range and alpha damage to end people as they peek corners. If you have a mix of them you've got a very scary combination, one which neither TR/VS can replicate.

My personal favourite are the Grinders since with slugs + ex mags since it gives you 12 shots per arm and that's a lot of hurt. With slugs I don't really care for the Mattocks since the added accuracy with slugs isn't worth it as opposed to using Mattocks with buckshot, of course... Buuuut even with buckshot I prefer the bigger mags over accuracy.

That said, VS/TR can obviously make good use of their MAX units since instead of alpha, shock and awe you go for sustainable fire with respectable DPS. An obvious statement but there it is.

Hm. Just never blown away by the slugs on any of the MAX guns.

I know people swear by the Mattocks with slugs but I've never been impressed. You can get a fairly tight CoF on the first shot, and repeat it if you give things time to settle. In practice it's rare you're afforded the time to do the reset and really need the max rate of fire you can get. Net result is damge just gets a different flavor of RNG and never really get any increased range.

My exception is the Hacksaws. Yes, I know I'm weird but hear me out. I use slugs on the hacksaws because they tend to be used "messy" in ultra close combat. I find I can fire with more abandon if I'm using slugs as the shots at that ultra close range go exactly where I want, and I don't end up with "overspray" damage to friendlies.

The only way I can get any decent range from an NC Max is usually with a Gorgon on one hand, and a shotgun on the other. Typically a hacksaw which can work solo if someone gets in point blank range. Falcons maybe? heh, who am I kidding. The rumors are true... NC MAXes have no range.

Aiming high-chest has a way of working in your favour. Both slugs are likely to hit and it seem to yield a good amount of headshots.
The longer out you get the more efficient it becomes to aim center mass. Remove the shotgun-mentality and use it as a very big semi-auto rifle and the AEGIS shield synergies very well with it. There is an element of RNG but that's something I manage with the larger mags of the Grinder and how I aim.

The usefulness of Hacksaws are kinda meh since it is so CQC focused + I relied on the now removed MAX charge when using them. I'd only ever consider buckshot when I know I'm walking into an area of "CQC" combat. Even then I think the Grinders are superior since you're arriving with 2x12 shots of brutality and you don't really need the extreme DPS of the Hacksaws.

What ranges are we talking about here? I mean you CAN use VS/TR MAX units at longer range but their usefulness is questionable.

Probably the range I find to be the worst sore spot is the rough distance from top of big stairs to doors 1-3 in the power house building. When I say "long range" for an AI max, that's kinda what I'm talking about.

NC Maxes are just really pathetic here. They can move down to the landing 1/2 down the big stairs to help some. The TR and VS Maxes shine at that range. Even the small stair really. Firing from there has a spread that consumes most of the doorway. NC Maxes absolutely shine back by the double backs, but kinda suck anywhere else in that building.

That's what I think of most when it comes to range. Everyone knows NC Maxes suck at AI outdoors, but I don't think a lot of TR/VS folks realize how limited their indoor can be as well.

Using slugs would eliminate every obstacle here and the AEGIS shield helps a great deal with survival. The idea, or "meta", that AI NC MAX units suck outside prevents people from realising that investing 300 certs (one for each arm) is more than just worth it. You will kill more, live longer and generally have a much better time in a wider set of situations.

The benefit I draw from NC MAX units is you can choose to specialise. Just like how people switch to AA or AV because when you KNOW that using standard ammo means you are limited in your engagements then why would you double down and continue to use them when there is a more desirable alternative?

Ah, that kinda leads back to my earlier reply. I own slugs for every NC Max weapon that will allow them. I just kinda find they suck.

It just trades one RNG for another.
Previously it was RNG like: You're gonna do damage, but unsure how much.
With slugs it becomes more: You might do full damage or you might do nothing.

You can take a knee and do paced semi-auto fire to minimize the RNG and try to get some range. It's just not all that practical most of the time.

I'm glad you enjoy them though.

In that case, I'd say the lack of range of NC MAX units is self-inflicted and like I wrote there are ways of minimising the effects of that RNG. It isn't really that hard, it is just working it out.

Though random checks at Miller/Emerald on PS2fisu NC MAX units seem to have a jolly good time. Looking good at Cobalt and Connery as well. Someone is using them effectively, regardless if buckshot or slugs are being used. Now if it true NC MAX units have no range this means they are making up for it elsewhere. It is true it is very short term but there is a pattern emerging of NC MAX units getting more kills and better KDR which also means they die less. One common argument, after all, is that is super easy to just C4 a NC MAX.

I don't know if it is statistically significant yet though but it does however point to that the NC MAX is doing very well. It isn't even close to being the dire state propagated by quite a few people (myself included). I even suggested slugs would be a fire mode but in light of this, that would be grossly OP. It would be very interesting to see more recent stats since Dasanfall does not care about nerfs or changes, it just shows us everything lumped together.

That being said, if someone wants to say NC MAX is in trouble now they better have some real data.

Increase the NC Max fire rate (and clip size), decrease the damage per pellet / reduce pellet count, reduce pellet spread

Voila NC max now has range but 0 instagib potential.

You can then tweak the DPS so that each dual weapon now has similar TTK as TR and VS counterparts.

Or conversely rework some of the least used TR and VS Max weapons into short ranged shotgun/flamer/rad weapons that can instagib infantry much like the NC shotguns can

Hm. I think 2 of the 3 Maxes are just fine. ZOE needs overhauled though. Max is otherwise fine but that special ability just plain sucks.

But yeah, NC Maxes are totally F'd on range! But that's ok

They are really strong at close range. The NC Max drivers out there know exactly what the limitations are and only use them in the proper circumstances. They get good KDR with them.

Sure, VS and TR can do it too, it's just much more effective with NC MAXes

Hmmm, I really don't think it is. Have you guys seen TR maxes do this?

What ends up happening: Maxes end up firing 1:1 at folks once the impending breach gets close. But at the beginning of the breach multiple maxes end up firing on the targets coming through the door. What would normally be survibable damage out at distance, suddenly becomes deadly.

With NC Max you don't see this until much closer. They can all mutli-fire a single target and get the same effect... BUT.. they cannot sustain it as they all have the little midget clips.

The TR maxes seem to force multiply much better in groups. Two fring at once gets a kill when it wouldn't before.... at range!!
But the NC maxes can do 2v1 as well. At range has the same effect, but isn't sustainable because of clips. At close range the 2v1 is overkill and again a waste of clip.

Again, I think back to the guys that "invented" it (first I had seen done effectively at least) and they were TR.

If you're still convinced NC is better at it, that's ok I guess. It's close enough that I wouldn't argue it to the ground. I think TR is a bit better myself. VS might actually rock, but I've rarely witnessed them coordinating maxes.

If 1 event during one time reflects the performance of a weapon in it's entirety, I'd call several nerfs to the soldier soaker.

I like how you disregard the pellet spread as if it's not even valid for the argument that this weapon is too effective.