[Suggestion] Fix scopes so HSNV and long range sniper scopes are not the only accurate scopes

If you use the HSNV scope or the long range sniper-rifle-only scopes then you will be given a crosshair that is always centered on the center of the COF.

If you use a vehicle weapon or a turret then you will be given a crosshair that is always centered on the center of the COF.

If you shoot from the hip then you will be given a crosshair that is not only always centered on the center of the COF but also shows the size of your COF and (almost unbelievably) will turn red when an enemy is in your sights.

If you ADS with anything other than the HSNV or long range sniper rifle scopes then you (1) have to hold down the RMB, (2) will reduce your FOV, (3) will incur a significant movement penalty, and worst of all (4) any movement whatsoever means your crosshair is no longer centered on the center of the COF.

Why would SOE give 100% accurate aiming information, including size of COF AND an easy-mode "shoot when this turns red" indicator to hipfire (where there is no penalty that cannot be reduced with laser sights) but then when you do everything in your power to aim properly (ADS) they not only do not give nearly as much aiming information but the information you are given is actually misleading?

Seriously, hipfire and no matter how fast or wild you run around you will always have 100% accurate aiming information. Turn your head in ADS without the HSNV and you get hosed.

My suggestion, fix this core gameplay issue so that this FPS consistently provides accurate sights.

This is garbage from a realism perspective, garbage from a gameplay perspective and garbage from a consistency perspective.

All I want is a sight that functions as a sight rather than a sight that functions as a distraction from the real information I need (where the center of the screen is located).

I DO NOT want to use a crosshair overlay because this is still distracting and reminds me how garbage the basic core gameplay is in PS2.

Uh it's all about Muzzle velocity and bulletdrop.

No, this is not what I am talking about.

I am talking about the FACT that the center of the COF for any and every weapon in the game is always the exact center of your screen and yet when you ADS with any non-overlay scope (the HSNV and long range sniper rifle scopes are overlays) and turn or move the sight moves away from the center of the screen and thus moves away from the center of your COF and thus all these non-overlay scopes are providing misleading information.

This is why I state that only some of the scopes need fixing (the non-overlay scopes). If I were talking about muzzle velocity or bullet drop (or any other value) then this would affect every scope equally because those are values set by the weapon+projectile.

I am not talking about COF values, recoil or anything like that. I am talking about the fact that SOE has a useless graphic for most scopes that does nothing more than trick your brain into thinking the center of the COF is somewhere other than where it is really located (dead center screen).

If you want to test this then do the following: 1) equip HSNV scope, 2) ADS, 3) place a peice of tape over the center of the crosshair, 4) draw a crosshair over the HSNV crosshair, 5) select any other scope that is not an overlay, 6) ADS and turn or move, 7) notice how the crosshair of your broken scope moves away from the crosshair you have drawn that still accurately represents the center of the screen and thus the center of the COF, 8) LOL how SOE puts millions of dollars and a year of testing since BETA into a FPS and still has garbage core gameplay mechanics.

The IR/NV and any scope greater than 4x have sway and force you to use the hold 'Shift' key breath mechanic. The FoV of the sniper scopes is very limited, so trying to find a target while rapidly swinging your muzzle is near impossible, the IR/NV was given the sway mechanic to give it a draw back compared to other sights. The sway is annoying enough for me to pretty give up using the IR/NV unless it's dark or there is a lot of smoke being used. Also the graphic changes to the IR/NV scope have so it is no longer the go to scope, as discerning target in the scope is not as clear cut as it was before the massive (and needed nerfs to the IR/NV scope).

At ranges where the other scopes and sights are effective the offset while moving is really not noticeable unless you are quickly transitioning great distances, in which you would expect there to be a pretty significant accuracy penalty even while ADS. This is the case with RL firearms as well. I do fine with the 1x and 2x reflex scopes.

But the game engine can't handle this.

Relflex Scopes don't align with the center of the screen, AKA your bullets don't hit where you're pointing. FIX IT SOE.

I would trade BS unrealistic "gun bob" for "scope sway" any day of the week. With scope sway your crosshair is a crosshair.

Try this. Hold your arms in front of you like you are ADS with a firearm. Now, turn or walk at a comfortable pace and see if you can maintain your hands steady in your vision- if you cannot you may want to see a physician. The issue is that, yes, your gun may be moving but if properly held and you're not running around then you should have no problem maintaining a clean sight picture because the gun should NOT move relative to your head. The problem with "gun bob" is that the gun moves but your head does not and that is unrealistic. Moreover, how are we to claim you have no problem moving around with a scope pressed up to your face (the HSNV and long range sniper rifle scope) but do have problems with the very scopes that are specifically designed to allow for accurate firing in these exact situations. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reflector_sight

It sounds like you are mentioning all these drawbacks to IR/NV and long range sniper rifles but where are the drawbacks to firing from the hip? The absolutely least accurate way to fire a firearm is from the hip while moving and yet this is the best way to shoot in PS2 if you want loads of accurate (and entirely fictional) information. Firing from the hip while moving as fast as you can and you have 1) a perfectly stable crosshair centered on the center of your COF that also tells you 2) the size of your COF AND 3) TURNS RED WHEN AN ENEMY IS IN YOUR SIGHTS!

Also, I believe that they added the scope sway to the IR/NV scope because until then it was simply hands down the best scope since it was the only one that worked properly. So, rather than fix the broken scopes SOE tries to **** the only one that works. I really doubt this was intentional as it really reeks of the kind of thing that results when the people who work on the mechanics do not have a lot of communication with the people who work on graphics. To be fair, the mechanics are fine (all weapons always center the COF on center screen) it is the graphics that are garbage.

Pros for hip fire:
1) Fastest movement possible
2) Can equip sights that reduce COF accuracy penalty
3) Largest FOV
4) 100% accurate crosshairs
5) Able to tell the size of your COF
6) CROSSHAIRS LIGHT UP TO TELL YOU WHEN TO SHOOT

Cons for hip fire:
1) slightly larger COF (can be reduced with upgrades)

Pros for using non-overlay scopes:
1) Zoom (not including 1x reflex) from 2x-4x

Cons for using non-overlay scopes:
1) Slowest movement
2) No upgrades that improve ADS accuracy values
3) Reduced FOV
4) Misleading crosshairs
5) Removes HUD info for size of COF
6) Removes HUD info for when to shoot
7) Scope graphics further obscure FOV

If you like your cheap broken game that is fine, personally I cannot continue enjoying the game now that I am aware of this garbage.

Personally, I would really appreciate some feedback from a SOE rep regarding this nonsense. If this is something they plan to address then great, I will wait until they fix it to play again. If this is something they have no plans to address, I would like to know now so I can quit for good.

There is a movement animation that affects the first bullet, but the second bullet and every other bullet after that one actually comes from the reflex sight. aka, they're accurate under sustained fire.

OP - Please stop making a big deal of this, you will ruin this game and embarass its players.

Have you tried using a peice of tape and marking a reticle at dead center screen?

If you were to try this you would realize that the only reason you think it only affects the first bullet is because A) you stop moving after firing the first bullet, B) you are tricked into thinking this is the case because of COF values that make all projectiles less accurate during sustained fire, or C) both A and B.

All projectiles always have the COF centered on center screen no matter what you are doing or what the graphics display. Ergo, anytime your sight is not centered on center screen your sight is misleading.

Worse than this is that the graphics+mechanics are inconsistent in that not all ways of firing are subject to the same misleading information. Laughably, when moving and firing from the hip (arguably one of the most inaccurate ways to fire a weapon) you are given 100% accurate information regarding the center of the COF and its size along with easy-mode "shoot when this turns red" nonsense.

If you think this is fine, that's okay we can disagree. Personally, I do think this is a big deal because IMO it is a garbage way to handle what is arguably the most important aspect of a FPS, where you are aiming. For me, this is such a big deal that I have tried to play since this realization and simply cannot enjoy the game any longer- for months now I thought this was either an issue I was having, one related to some mysterious COF type value, or some kind of clientside issue. Turns out other FPS feel so much better simply because they are because they give you a sight that helps not hurts your accuracy.

How will my pointing out garbage programming on the part of SOE ruin the game exactly? Sorry, if this is ruining the game then it is clearly SOE's fault and not mine. SOE has been ruining this game from the start- remember flinch? Any bright 10 year old could have told you the way they initially implemented the flinch mechanic was garbage, yet it still took over 4 months to fix.

If you think my pointing out this embarrassing implementation on the part of SOE will embarrass its players then perhaps you are right. Personally, I do feel embarrassed that I assumed the reason aiming seemed "loose" was either my fault, intentional due to some COF type value, or unintentional due to clientside type issues. I am embarrassed because after I saw video evidence of this I had to watch twice and then try for myself before I could believe that a FPS would do something so terrible. I am embarrassed because it took so long to realize the core gameplay of this FPS is such garbage.

You think this is no big deal and that is fine. I agree Planetside 2 has fun elements but these are almost entirely due to being the only MMO FPS. The only positive about the game is that it is MMO because the FPS part of the game IMO is garbage and PS2 would be a far better game if they simply cut and paste the FPS mechanics from just about any other FPS game.

This game never touted itself as a military simulator, and the reason they have cut a number of corners is because is an MMO. In order to get things to work in a massive online environment many things have to be over simplified. I would much rather they fixed the issues with hit detection first, as it is a far bigger culprit for missing things in this game than the sighting mechanics.

Giving the game accurate sights in 100% (rather than 50%) of cases would hardly make this game a military simulator.

This is not about cutting corners, in fact it would have probably been easier not to create BS "gun bob" graphics that do nothing but distract from the real information.

This is not about over simplification. In fact, quite the opposite, it is far simpler for every weapon graphic to be the same and every scope graphic to look the same than it is to make some scope graphics looks one way and others look different.

If, by hit detection, you mean the issues with clientside serving then we are talking about apples and oranges in terms of the ease of solving problems here. All I want is a crosshair graphic at the center of the screen.

See, this is the thing- the sighting mechanics are actually fine and work the same way for every single weapon all the time. The center of your COF is always 100% of the time centered on center screen regardless of the graphics.

The problem with the mechanics is not the mechanics per se but that THE GRAPHICS do not match the mechanics in ADS.

Mechanics: "Your COF is always center screen"
Graphics: "Nu-uh, when you use these scopes it moves when you move and when you use these it does not"
Mechanics: "No, you are wrong and bad- every single weapon always 100% of the time is centered on center screen"

Garbage.

I agree that "fixing" hit detection issues should be a priority but that can be left to the techies. All I need is one employee from the graphics department to delete the existing ADS crosshairs and use the information already being used for hipfire to give us functional sights.

I think part of the design aim for PS2 (and for PS1 for that matter) has always been to have a game where having the right weapon is often more important than twitch skill, since a) it's more newb friendly that way and b) the lag due to the number of players means they're never really going to compete with pure smaller scale twitch shooters for skill-based gunplay. This is why we have a COF system that's effectively the same as rolling dice when you shoot - it can randomly plant all the bullets in the target's head, or it can spray round them missing 2/3rds of the rounds.

Following on from this, with respect to hipfire, I think they want hipfire to be a viable close-range setup, rather than a fail for not ADS. So you have to choose between a med range ADS setup or a short range hipfire. I'm not saying at all the game is balanced - in fact tbh you can just use an UBGL 100% of the time at the moment and once you get the hang of landing shots you'll get way more kills than attempting to use bullets at anything other than extreme range (in which case it's not worth bothering to shoot anyway as you'll just light up your position). But I'm pretty sure the intent isn't for ADS to be better than hipfire in all situations.

Yes, tape + marker dot is how I play, and the walking animation is not something that hurts my gameplay. It never hurt my gameplay before and it doesn't now because I've adapted. This game has very good gunplay, admit it or not, things are more or less very good across the board. Not every game should be aimbot easy to get kills, yet it shouldn't feel like every kill is a mini-boss. This game gets that balance more or less perfect for a modern FPS IMO.

But hipfiring should be aimbot easy-mode "shoot when this turns red"?

Wow, so wait, you use tape+marker to make up for the terrible graphics AND STILL TRY TO DEFEND THEM?

So because you have adapted to garbage implementation then things are okay?

All right, fair enough, but how in asshats name can you call a game balanced "more or less perfectly" when you yourself use tape+marker to compensate?

Wait, is it balanced because you have to use tape+marker and get used to how cheap and stupid that feels, or is it balanced without using the tape+marker?

I'm glad you like your advantage over others and everything being that you have adapted to the garbage this game offers...

Not sure if...

Whatever, hey SOE can I get a response from a rep as to whether the game will always be like this?

Guess that's one of the attributes that made me use primarily hipfire. Together with not actually having an ADS sens slider before and the slower move speed and constricted FOV.

Really hope they'll fix this. Considering they fixed the ADS sens thing, I doubt they will let this slide.

I agree it should be fixed. However make it toggleable in options as some will not like this more stale look. Also this is a very minor thing that 1% of the population will ever notice even after telling everyone about it, so much more needs to be fixed first.

Hence why there is already a FOV and movement penalty when ADS.

So, is hipfire fail to ADS when I am using HSNV? Nope, not by a long shot. Why? The guy hipfiring in CQC is moving much faster and the difference in COF is not only negated just by being in CQC but can also be mitigated by attachments.

Sadly, the people that will notice this the most are the people who are trying to fire accurately. Coincidentally, if you move or turn your head (you know, like when you track a moving target) then the more accurate you are with your crosshair the less likely you are to be aiming at your target. Moreover, weapons with 0 horizontal recoil are more affected by this than those with horizontal recoil because the irony is that a little horizontal recoil can actually help get some of your shots on target.

Also, in theory I do not think they really have to change very much or make the animation more "stale" they just have to treat the crosshairs like actual reflector sights. Furthermore, the current graphics are garbage from a realism perspective- your FOV should move with your body not float stationary while your body moves. In other words, relativistically it is not the gun that should be bobbing but your FOV (you know, more like "scope sway").

I used to be a frequent user of the HS/NV scope until they nerfed it. When i used normal scopes, such as the red dot sight, i've had NO problem hitting targets, only finding them since they were no longer bright white.

I didn't even know the bullets go to the center, rather than the sight, it's that unnoticable.

And that says a lot for someone who uses automatic weapons against snipers from 300 metres and hits almost all the bullets... Without the glorious HS/NC scope which goes up and down...

If you use a high ROF automatic weapon then yeah COF will make the bullets spread around (still centered at center screen though) and you may not notice so much. Also, if you do not move or turn your head while ADS then you're okay, crosshairs are accurate.

I'm not trying to be rude but If I give you a sight that does not aim where the projectiles are going and you still hit your target it is because A) COF or recoil are making up for the difference or B) you are not actually aiming the sights at the target.

What can I say, the projectiles always center on center screen so if the sight is not at center screen and you place the sight on the target you cannot be as accurate as you would be if the sight was on center screen and you place the sight on the target.

Still boggles my mind that this would only be so for some options and not others.

Also boggles my mind how many people seem to support garbage programming. It is as if people are thinking "well sure it should not be this way but c'mon it's only a little garbage". Well, I wish I felt the same but personally it irritates me so much I no longer play and just come here to lobby for SOE to fix this junk.

I use bursts, so my COF is almost always minimal and i shuffle so the enemy cannot hit me...

It still sucks the bullet don't go exactly where you're pointing them at, but i'm just trying to say that the difference is almost unnoticable.