Faction bias. Can we all help each other.

This was a post in the test server forums but really sums up what I was thinking too.
Its really hard to have conversations on the board because people don't seem to see the other side of the argument or are completely oblivious to the qualities of a weapon that make it good.

Basically rate of fire is king in fights under 40 metres. This is true and has been true for a very long time (when it comes to normal weapons like lmg's, carbines etc). The other important stat in cqc and under 30 to 40 metres is controllability and damage. Some players prefer more damage and less controllability and others vise versa.
After 40 metres low rof lmgs, carbines etc can overtake high rof weapons because you have longer time to see where your shots are going and generally accuracy is more important than raw rof and damage.

Most of the combat in this game that is important takes place under 40 metres. Hence why all the higer rof weapons (700 rof plus) have always been more popular, statistically better and generally agreed as the go to for every empire.
That's why infils and others use smg's in close and not semi auto sniper rifles, pretty easy to understand.
So I just wanted to have some good threads without so much faction bias.
Imho balance is as close in ps2 as it has ever been and every empire has cqc oriented weapons and longe range options.
Nc has more long range options imho, tr has more short and vs has more of a equal number of each.
asking for weapons to be op (lynx at 906 rof at 143 bullet damage) is counter intuitive and hurts the game overall.
So lets try to understand the other empires first and stop trying to imbalance the game and not seeing the potential of weapons by being blind to its positives.

I like the lynx as is I play almost nothing but TR i made a nc way back when played for about a month bored me to tears lol "god tanks and all" but i agree leave my lynx alone i do insanely well with it check my kill board 70% of it just lynx char same as my forum name on connery i almost wanna quit over this change tbh i have smgs i don't want another.

The higher ROF weapons are historically more popular because the vast majority of default weapons are higher ROF.

I use low ROF guns exclusively in CQC, and used to use the 7F exclusively, and it is my experience that there is no better CQC gun than the SAW.

I'm really happy with the NC arsenal (and NC Arsenal) right now and don't think it needs any changes. The most blistering pace I can generally stand is 600rpm, and if I'm feeling especially naughty I'll bust out my Cyclone I seem to do fine in CQC.

Just wait until you see what the Bandit is going to be doing to people in close-mid distances

I am glad low rof works for you Epic, but you are a outlier, statistically most people prefer high rof in cqc. There is always people who like different playstyles but generally in every fps I have ever played rof was and is king for most people in close.

Those people are the worst. Sadly, I am not one to talk because I might end up looking like a hypocrite :|

But seriously, It's a game not a war. We can all be friends here... right?

Dmg is nothing relative to rof in CQC... Really? Perhaps your face hasn't been introduced to Mr. Shotgun. I think the bias comes more from a lack of understanding what the pros and cons are supposed to be with the various faction specific stuff from both the players and devs.

I think it's more down to a lot more defaults are high ROF, so that's what they get used to. 167/600 isn't exactly blistering but I've seen a lot of legit great players just fall in love with a Gauss Rifle/Mercenary with a laser.

Anyway in CQC guns are just that thing you use to prep somebody for a knifing so any old gun will do

yeah it would be nice to have polite conversations but people get so wrapped up in their own faction they never seem to see the other side of the fence.
Seriously a lot of people just need to switch factions to the one that suits them.
Want more cqc choice and rof-got tr
Want more 40 metres plus choices go nc
Want the god mode Orion go vs......I joke I joke

Friendship is measured by someone's weapon RoF.

I don't think defaults being high rof means anything, most nc agree the gd7f is king in close compared to the mercenary, most nc choose the 750 or 800 rpm ar's in close etc etc.
Would anyone use a smg at 500 rof and 200 damage in close, I doubt it.
Why wont infils use a sniper rifle in close? because the more rof u have the easier it is to see your rounds making contact, the easier it is to adjust for lag and their is less penalty for missing shots.

Are you saying that a carv is as good as a slow firing lmg like the gausss saw at 70 metres? Cause trust me it isn't.
I suppose their is people who like low rof in close but its definitely not the norm. In counterstrike, battlefield or any other game either.

the real sad part about this i like the lynx and even it's made better "god help you guys if it is" its just gonna get nerfed after a cash grab and no one wins. well no one but SoE on their wallet. Lynx is fine as is please leave it alone. please?

I hear the Bandit is not much different from the AF19.

Which just reinforces my point

It's basically an AF19 that trades 40m+ accuracy for 0.75x ADS speed and much, much better attachments. The reason I think it's going to be best in class of the new guns is that the tradeoffs are minor to non-existent (that's a rare range for a carbine, and it's still good at it if burst fired anyway) for huge buffs in SPA/adv laser access and being one of two 0.75x 167 damage weapon in the game along with the Cyclone, both NC.

It's pretty much all the best stuff about two of our best guns (the Merc and the Cyclone) combined into one gun, with a real-world dps that's in between the two. That is to say, in between two guns that have really nice dps.

Barring any last second Railjackings on SOE's part, the Bandit is going to be a monster.

Cougar beat it, NC is not happy.
Cougar beat new VS carbine, VS is not happy.
Monster is beaten, oh snap..

More combat needs to happen at long range (excluding snipers doing their usual). The problem is: vehicles get too easily involved, and ruin any form of long range firefight.

How about looking at yourself in the mirror and doing something useful - like making suggestions on how to actually make whatever is coming out for your faction better?

It seems the NC are mostly incapable of this level of thought and discussion, and just want to derail other factions instead of trying to improve theirs.

So you think ROF is important, well then, shall we make the new NC carbine a higher ROF 143 damage tier weapon instead? Its not like the NC have much in the way of carbines that have ROF except for the lone GD-7F.

Just go do it already - tell SOE how to improve what they're building for you, instead of whining about other factions!

NO! NERF TR!!!!!!

NAAOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!

Think you better check yourself on bias and hypocrisy before preaching to us. Bullet damage obviously matters or this wouldn't be an issue would it? Especially when bullet damage is also linked with a lot of other statistics in general.

You're very conveniently leaving out stats for accuracy. High RoF doesn't mean a lot if it makes your shots whiff, not to mention how important headshots can be for reducing your TTK especially against more durable targets such as shielded heavies and/or high nano-players. Higher bullet damage guns in general have better accuracy in PS2 - not to be confused with better handling, but they are more precise and their recoil is more controllable than the higher horizontal 143/125 damage guns.

Yes, higher RoF tends to have lower TTK which is certainly very valuable for close ranges. Yes, infantry combat is a bit claustrophobic in PS2 due to poor base design and vehicle spam. I can certainly admit that.

But while the quantity of close/mid/long range weapons matters to some extent for diversity, having a bunch of close range guns doesn't mean TR is superior at close range. They just aren't, and now that the Lynx has been nerfed in CQC they may be the worst CQC faction overall.

TR is not the CQC dominator right now - that is NC. GD-7F is the strongest close range carbine, Jackhammer is the strongest shotgun, Cyclone/Blitz are at least equal to VS's options and definitely better than TR's.

And then there's the NC MAX. Yeah...

NC has the most biolab alert wins, TR the least. What does that tell you about close range combat? Sure, pop factors in to some degree, but TR is way way behind. MAX units is a big part of it but our infantry weapons are just highly overrated by NC for close ranges. The only thing NC should be jealous of TR for close range is maybe the MSW-R, and the Orion is simply better anyway.

The VS are also getting a superior Jaguar, the by-far most popular / envied by other factions carbine now just pales in comparison to the more accurate, higher velocity, faster reload version on VS. And no, soft point, 10 more bullets, and 18 more RoF definitely aren't worth the differences.

This...
I would love more long rang combat, it's so fun when it happens.

The good old Indar Excavation-Quartz Ridge, Saerro Listening Post-Echo Valley Substation-Glacier Station days. I hope the devs realize that the fight in between the bases should be as fun as the fight at the bases.