Every class should have some form of AA/AV

That is the only way to solve the current dilemma of either changing to a squad of heavies with a couple engineers to deal with tanks, or being obliterated since infantry AA is currently ineffective past a heavily certed MAX.

Not to mention that a sunderer being supported by infantry is HELPLESS vs. a single competent aircraft.

This game is supposed to be about teamwork, not relying on lengthy cooldowns and imbalances.

I am not saying that the heavy should be trivialized, but all classes should have a cert-unlockable ranged option that is ineffective vs. infantry/vehicles, but should deter vehicles/aircraft.

It's especially bad for newer players who feel pushed into aircraft when they might have come for the FPS aspect and not the flying simulator.


I'm not asking for LAs/Engis/Medics to be able to solo vehicles (that aren't too dumb to avoid C4), but do SOME damage as opposed to being completely helpless vs. tanks and aircraft (much more so).

You say this yet you suggest that any class should be able to act as an AA/AT. I fail to see any teamwork in that.

A gross misinterpretation. I never said they should act as AA/AT, but HAVE SOME form of AV/AA, so that groups of ANY class should be able to deal with a single aircraft/tank.

Having SOMETHING does mean being able to counter aircraft/vehicles alone. That's an assumption you're making and not something that was implied by my post.

most do

Heavy Certed Max? What are you talking about? You have to purchase one burster, you don't need anything else, in fact the only upgrades to the bursters are 500 certs each and allow for more ammo capacity.

"all classes should have a cert-unlockable ranged option that is ineffective vs. infantry/vehicles, but should deter vehicles/aircraft."

If it is ineffective how is it going to deter anything? If your AA Maxes are getting killed they need to learn where to stand and your team needs to learn how to repair and protect them as a dual burster AA MAX stands no chance against ground forces.

Classes are different for a reason. Each class does not need an AA answer when EVERYONE can easily jump into a MAX. A MAX with one Burster is ok. With this logic then each class should be able to dump mines, heal, stealth etc.

I'm sorry, but 20 of the best combat medics in the world with the best ARs couldn't down a single ESF with even a modicum of competence.

That's 500 certs, which equates to 15+ hours of playing time for the average Joe for an option that has no other function for something that is potentially on cooldown.

Indeed. The dual burster AA max dies readily and needs repairs by a nearby engi, who is promptly obliterated by a single ESF.

Not everyone can jump into a MAX at any time, at any place.The MAX has a cooldown for a reason... just like aircraft, or do you think that aircraft should be readily dispensable at every location on the map with no cooldown?

And no.. a MAX with only one burster is not much more effective than a few aimbotting infantry.

I think this is true with AV, and perhaps less so with AA.

An infantry-supply LAW would be nice, but would need to be balanced to prevent LAW-spam from replacing grenade spam. Reduce it's AOE to favor only direct hits.

As for AA, I don't know. I hated dying in the field in PS1 to the Mossies and Reavers, but I wasn't overly peeved by it. Running in the open was always a gamble...I suppose the alternative would be having the infantry supply LAW have an impact mode and an airburst mode, with damage either for tanks or AA. That said, pushing AA too extensively might break air, or simply encourage them to rocketpod spam from farther away, which isn't necessarily better...

And what exactly are you gonna give to the infiltrator, LA and CM?

The Engineer is getting deployable AA turrets. So we have now the HA, Engineer and MAX with potent AA weaponary.

Most everyone can use c4 but with the cert cost most people are upgrading things that are more useful all around like their guns, their suit and their class specific tool. It's like 700 damn certs for 2 sticks of c4!

anti-air wise don't underestimate the damage of combined small arms fire to ESFs. Solo I can take a good 25% of a hovering ESF hp in one clip. It's usually enough for them to get the idea and bug out.

Every class DOES have an AA unit available to them.

It's called a MAX AA unit.

Didn't know about the engineer part. That is certainly half the battle, but what HAs currently have is a complete and utter joke. The AA rockets are easily avoidable, but I suppose that's another issue entirely.

Infiltrators, LAs and CMs could be given a cert that gives ammunition that deals more damage to aircraft (or optionally vehicles) at some cost to their effectiveness vs. other infantry.. or it could be a weapon in itself.

The point is that as an infiltator/LA/CM it feels ridiculous to be absolutely ineffective vs. tanks and aircraft. I don't think that those classes should be have the same capability as an engineer/HA to deal with aircraft, but at least SOMETHING would be nice.


A group of units should never feel powerless, that is what I'm arguing. Even if you can't effectively solo or nearly destroy a vehicle, being able to do something and feel like you're contributing is much more rewarding than being able to do NOTHING at all.

That's a class.. the point is being a unit that has already been deployed at a location where you can't readily swap and have nothing at your disposal besides what the good nanomatrix spawned you with.

No no no no no no no no no no

While we're at it, lets give every class a slightly less effective repair gun, healing gun, ammo box, and turret. That way they won't ever have a moment where they feel useless. Actually, let's just get rid of classes and have no differentiation between anything.

Yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes

but seriously.. why?

Are you for real? AA is already running the show...

CM & Inf are the only classes that don't have AT, well spotted Einstein.

Yes, let's let all infantry kill other things without fear of retaliation. Let's give medics HE-AA-Decimator rounds to one-shot vanguards, magriders etc.

Hyperbole makes everything sound ridiculous.

That's the point, Gauss.

Yes, AA is.. because the only effective AA at the moment is A.

I wasn't being hyperbolic, that's exactly what you're suggesting. That we give the defining factor of one class to every other class in a watered down form just to allow them to handle more situations. The merits and negatives of a class based system vs. one that isn't are good to talk about, but I don't think that's what we're talking about here.

Efficacy is defining enough for me.

LAs can fly too, but it doesn't make them galaxies.

With the right weapon and setup, HAs can also snipe with shotguns/battle rifles.

This is a game of numbers. The complete lack of personalization is irrelevant when it comes to specific class design, because classes can be swapped readily (except for MAX due to CD etc.)


Assuming my suggested change(s) were implemented: People would still swap to HA to deal with tanks. The only difference would be that a group (sufficiently large number) holding a position with only one HA and other classes would be able to deal effectively with a single vehicle/aircraft.

Furthermore.. besides the best AA/AV among non-CD infantry, the HA already has his shield.. so.. basta

So you want Aircraft to be even more useless