ESFs are not direct counters to liberators. So what is?

The fact remains that even if a single pilot can standoffishly peck away at a lib with his nosegun from 400m, he still has to empty 4 mags or more to kill it, which results in plenty of time for the lib to escape, or other forces in play to destroy the ESF.

As for the "One person shouldn't be able to counter a 2/3 vehicle" Lightnings can counter sunderers which can potentially be 8/8 vehicles, where is your god now?
Realistically speaking though you can pull a lightning, MBT, hell even a flash with fury to counter many of the other vehicles in play on the ground and they are all valid counters against one another with proper equipment and circumstance. Hell an engineer with AV mines is a proper counter against any ground vehicle and he doesn't even need to pull a vehicle.

Most of these things with the right equipment can kill their intended target so quickly, that the first reaction of the target MUST be to escape or find cover or it will be destroyed. Liberators on the other hand have plenty of time to react to anything you can throw at them.

Saying ESF's counter libs is like saying HA's counter ESF's. Anything they have takes far too long to kill the target and gives it ample time to escape or counter-attack.

IDK about you, but I have an AP lightning and I run like for my mama when I see a dual basilisk sundy. They shred me to pieces in seconds. Also, I used to play with an outfit and there we would go "battle bus" to take care of enemy tanks. We had 9 ZOE comets,2 engineers that would gun, and 1 medic would drive. We once took on 3 prowlers and came out victorious.

Actually just the other day a TR group tried a bangbus convoy with 8 or so sundies certed with repair and various turrets, all of which were manned. But they got torn apart in moments by infantry, my lightning (Viper) and a vanny. They tried to stay at a standoffish range and simply couldnt take the DPS as we focused whoever was smoking down first.

Don't get me wrong, a full up bangbus can be a terror with dual furies and a handful of troops to repair the sundy and destroy oncomers, but there are still plenty of counters.

Throwing in my 2 cents...

The lib is meant to be a bomber, slow, heavy, not very agile, shoots at ground targets. Hell, they even put guns on the front AND back to help give it protection from ESFs. Problem is, libs are so agile they can flip belly up, take a shot, and flip back over and keep going. In some cases with only one person in the damn vehicle. That is beyond what a bomber craft should be capable of.

The problem here isn't the concept of "direct counter" its about a vehicle being designed for a very specific role. Take the MAX for example. In any significant fight a MAX cannot survive without logistic support from both medics and engineers. I believe that should also extend to Libs needing ESF's for protection from enemy ESF's. However, that's not currently the case a lib is currently perfectly capable of defending itself from ESF's using a turret designed to kill ground targets.

We don't KNOW what the Lib was meant for. But, looking at the weapons and abilities SOE gave it, we CAN logically presume that it wasn't meant to be a slow, heavy, not very agile bomber. If it was they would have designed it drastically differently.

It's a gunship, not a bomber.

just like the other ESF.

IRL gunships tend to be very slow and not maneuver well, most of them are in fact started out as re purposed cargo planes. in the age of jets gunships are generally the only planes still using propellers. none of these hover.



the rest that fall under the gunship category are helicopters which aren't even remotely fast enough to fight any sort of plane.

http://1.bp.************/-hK74r5SVFVU/T4pZxDf6RWI/AAAAAAAAADE/KTq6bEHPTaE/s1600/68545.jpg

pick one.

That feel when people try to use real life comparisons for Planetside 2. I'm not even dignifying this with a real response.

Forumside, don't ever change.

you are trying to abuse a real life defined word. if you want me to stop then stop hiding behind your screwed up definition of the word "gunship", and make real arguments.

if i really wanted to go after the IRL argument i would have simply said that ESF need to go about 10x faster than they currently do and a single lock on missile should run the risk of blowing out the engines, instruments, or flight surfaces of any aircraft it hits and the same should also be true for flak.

No, I'm trying to say that nowhere in the description of the Liberator does it say it's a "bomber" it's defined as a "gunship".

http://planetside.wikia.com/wiki/Liberator
"The Liberator is a three man gunship"

I'd say ESFs are a good enough counter to libs.
It's like MBT vs lightning, if they go 1v1, the lightning may win, but only if he is a very skilled tanker and is much better than the MBT crew. But if you put 2 lightning against the MBT, the MBT will almost always loose.

Same with liberators, one ESF can take even skilled liberator crews by himself. And if you go 3v1 with esfs against a lib crew, they're going to die very quickly.
All this applies until you find a liberator with an AA loadout (shredder, walker, tankbuster).... then you're dead.

and "gunship" is a clearly defined military word that i was clarifying for you. as defined by slow planes with large guns that lack heavily in agility or helicopters that have very high agility but are far too slow to participate in air combat.

Yes, and Flak in military terms is a timed explosive round that blows up at a pre-determined height not based on proximity to aircraft but games that are sci-fi don't have to give a crap about what real world things are. They work around what makes a fun game.

actually most flak has a magnetic proximity fuse that goes off whenever it approaches an aircraft, kind of like a flying ship mine. the proximity flak fuses were developed in WW2 from what i understand.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proximity_fuze

so your argument falls flat on it's face there too.


yes fun should be the primary concern so words like "gunship" should be irrelevant and if people would have more fun with something that drops bombs then that is what we should go for.

LOGIC TRAPS ARE FUN!

Hmm, that's cool, I'd never actually seen those, only knew about the ones set to explode at pre-determined heights. Regardless though, the fact is. Very few things in PS2 function like they do in real life.


Do you think people would have more fun dropping bombs from flight ceiling? Because people complain about libs doing that already and they're not even good at it. That sounds incredibly boring to me personally. But, many people DID ask SOE for dumb bombs on the Liberator in the update and they didn't give them to us. So... I think that should answer your question about whether SOE intended the Liberator to be a bomber.

Well, were they actually a good outfit that knew what they were doing? Were they all blockade or 1 ammo, 2 blockade, and the rest repair. Did they have "peeka-boo" maxes inside the vehicles? There are actually many elements that make a good battlebus.

No and I don't think I'll ever see 8 bangbus's with that kind of coordination with the exception of the inter-server/clan fights. That's rediculous, what do you think this game is, MLG pro?

I could see ONE or maybe two with that kind of coordination, realistically. But several? No they just took 8 or so sundies with enough to at least gun them all and rolled out in a convoy that remained within repair range.

my squad has done that a few times before, but we only had one MAX, the other two were heavy assaults (myself included), also we only had around 6 to 8 people (our outfit is a very small group of people who know each other IRL). we were able to drop a healthy sunderer in less than 5 seconds.

I've seen 5 myself. All loaded up and fighting. It was a rare occurrence. But, I also witnessed 250 guys drop from 25 gals from all different outfits on Dahaka AMP. I think after we dropped, the server lasted 7 minutes before crashing.

And nothing's more fun than being in killed in a fighter by a weapon designed to take out tanks. That **** is SUPER HAPPY FUN TIMES all the way right there