[Suggestion] Engineers "need" better ways to kill

Discussion in 'Engineer' started by Sir Sovereign, May 5, 2017.

  1. Sir Sovereign

    The best way to get certs and to advance through the game is by playing objectives and killing, and no one likes to play a game where their favorite way of playing is basically nerfed for the simple fact that it's a "support class"

    Both the engineer and light assault class have kind of been left behind over the years for terms of actual playability, enjoyment, and effectiveness. Light assault has always had mobility as it's excuse to be dumbed down from other classes, which isn't fair either, but engineers main excuse has been that they cannot have stronger weapons (reason why the archer makes zero sense) because of the fact that they can refill their own ammo any number of times and the turrets.

    It is a very effective class for defending positions and supporting the team with the shield, turrets when you're locking down a position, and repairing vehicles, but when it comes to actually killing or defending themselves, the engineer has to rely on superior skill. An engineer versus any other class on paper loses every time. So my question is, why don't we have more battle/scout rifles for the engineer and light assault class? Why can't the two lighter classes use, say, NS or NSX weapons from the other classes to give more versability?

    Is your answer because the Engineer can refill their own ammo?

    Honestly all the talk of weapons being "OP" in the hands of an engi for the simple fact that he can drop himself ammo is now moot. Every single class can now use an implant that refills their ammo every 30-120 seconds, making engineers the least effective at killing besides with turrets. Honestly both the engineers and the Light assaults now need a weapon that competes with rifles and LMGS. The fact that LMGs have low spread over time, have much higher bullet velocities than carbines, and do far more dps is kind of crazy in terms of balance.. it makes more sense because the barrel is longer, but both of the light classes need something.
    • Up x 1
  2. Eternaloptimist

    When I play engie I find the most consistent and fun way to gain certs is actually to scatter ammo packs wherever I go whilst fighting.

    Repairing also generates certs if you don't mind missing out a bit on shooting at other people but in terms of fighting, killing vehicles gives you the biggest individual reward IIRC. Tank mines are the way to go for that (and they are good for Maxes as well) although some engies will run C4. But for a steady stream of certs resupply and repair is the thing that does it for me.

    As to personal weapons, carbines are my favourite infantry primary and well up to the job of killing other infantry. There is such a versatile range of carbines to play with too..........big hitting slow firing ones, awesomely acurate burst ones and high RoF CQC ones. There's even an NSX one but I don't like it much myself. The gamble is equipping the right one for the job before you know what the fight is going to turn into.

    But the Blackhand sidearm gives you a pocket BR if you want something for medium range hitting power..

    I honestly don't feel that I need better tools when I play engie.

    With LA I find the same as with HA - not much else to do except shoot at things - and they are a CQC class type after all, so a bit less versatile at all ranges than the HA. But then the flying CoF on carbines has made them great "pop up and shoot" bad boys in addition to the old thing of being able to toss C4 or 'nades over walls. The main reason I play them is for their Parkour ability in base fights.

    Apart from base fights I usually only get anywhere duelling with other LAs or hunting infils in the hills and mountains myself. Too many vehicles with radar nowadays for my liking......................in fact that, plus HE spam and AP tank gun sniping is the bane of my (oftern short) existence anywhere outside a base.

    The Rocklet is a fun gun but I find it a bit situational in my hands. Nice to have something though. LA was definitely missing something not having anything in that slot.
  3. Den

    I'm too busy spray painting allied tanks and MAXes, throwing ammo boxes, firing Detect Bolts from my crossbow, setting up a turret and hoping I'm not immediately sniped, or plinking tanks with my Archer to shoot other soldiers. We have enough guys bunching up at chokepoints and dancing around one another trying to get their bullet to land the last hit.

    Engineer feels fine overall, besides being the least effective infantry fighter since he doesn't have an in-combat focused survival abilities like self-heal, armor, cloak, jetpack... and the carbine doesn't really feel like the "Engineer" kind of weapon. That is to say, I only really use the close quarters carbine when moving inside of tight bases, but most of the time I never need to take a shot; everyone else is in front of me and I'm on MAX repair duty.

    Otherwise I have the Battle Rifle, fighting at mid to long range in more of a marksman/overwatch firing role to make up for being the weakest in toe-to-toe shootouts. It feels like the Assault Rifle class of weapon would be better suited for the Engineer as he is more likely to be engaging in the fight when at mid range rather than close range (up close, he's likely focused on repairing a MAX).

    One change I would like to see would be a simple little quality of life tweak - since the Engineer can already resupply himself, just give him unlimited reserve ammo or an inherit high-speed Ammo Printer. Engy could keep his two ammo boxes where they'd be best used by others rather than dropping them for himself.
  4. Eternaloptimist

    Well, there is the hardlight shield (and dropping a turret will give some cover in a pinch). Engie has same armour options as LA and tbh the jetpack just makes you stand out in actual combat............good for getting into a firing postiion but even then you tend to be the only one in the immediate vicinity.

    I totally respect the fact that people like to play engie their own way and that it might not involve face to face infantry combat. But they aren't really all that disadvantaged (especially not if they also run regen implant for self heal over time).
  5. DeadlyOmen

    A team without engineers around won't do well. Don't underestimate the power of the support class.
    • Up x 1
  6. OldMaster80

    Imo when you play Engineer you have to forget your stats. Engineers are less efficient at killing than HA (no shield, no LMGs) and LA (less flanking), but they trade this for a huge versatility.

    You have to think yourself like swiss army knife.
    For instance I have 4 main loadouts at the moment:

    Assault Line: Jaguar, Max Nanowave, Sticky Grenades, Medikits, Deployable Barrier or AI Mana, T4-AMP.
    Tink (defensive loadout): Auto-shotgun, Max Nanowave, Frag Grenades, Claymores, 4 Spitfire, Regeneration implant.
    The Tricky (good when enemies hide in a room): Trac-S with smoke grenade launcher and NV scope, Grenade Bandolier, 4 Frag grenades, Claymores. That's fun, you smoke them like fish, and they throw grenades inside the room.
    Anti-Max: Archer, Commissioner, Shield Regen, Sticky grenades, AV turret, AV mines, Regeneration implant.
  7. TR5L4Y3R

    "We have enough guys bunching up at chokepoints and dancing around one another trying to get their bullet to land the last hit."
    and there is this games biggest problem wenn it comes to gaining xp through combat ..
    they should just go detterence on EVERYTHING ..
    as for engineer killpotential? it has plenty enough imo ..
    its survivability sucks though when it comes to manning deployed turrets ...
  8. Problem Officer

    It's a new Engineer implant that lets them build rocket engines onto Sundies!
  9. NikolaiLev

    Considering engineer is THE vehicle crewman class and already has tons of tools at his disposal (tank mines, proxy mines, mana AI, mana AV, hardlight barrier, spitfires AND a basically no cooldown infinite ammo pack that works FAR faster than ammo printer, which most people don't have due to how grindy the implant system is.)

    Frankly, the engineer has too many things. I'd suggest they lose carbines and the archer be moved to Infiltrator but, well, threads like these would just get my lynched. Infiltrators have it rough too; outside of hacking terminals and spamming recon darts and EMP grenades (which are rightfully being nerfed) they're a pretty crummy class. Light scout rifles are just bootleg assault rifles and the Vandal is basically the only viable option right now for people who are actually playing in a teamwork platoon.

    Oh, and the engi gets a repair tool, making him NECESSARY for max crashes, one of the most potent tactics in the game. And he has to choose between so few of them. C4, repair tool, AND mana AV (which is also good at killing infantry, which is, thank god, being nerfed next patch).

    Also, since when is killing the best way to get XP? That's bologna unless you're a super leet NS-15 heavy with maxed adrenaline shield. The best way is to, you know play engi and medic to rack up support XP, or go ant farming.

    If engineers aren't getting enough XP, make repairing and resupply give more XP. It's that easy.
  10. TR5L4Y3R

    Archers to the friggin cloakers yea no way in hell shall those get it ... nope
    also engineers losing carbines? you nuts? what shall they defend themselves with?
  11. Eternaloptimist

    Careful my son, the Church of Auraxis is very harsh with people who spread heretical doctrine :).............besides, SMGs and BRs/ScRs are too far to one end of the range spectrum or the other for my liking. I like to play combat (fighting) engineer.

    Or they're not playing effectively. I find it impossible to avoid making loads of xp from ammo resupply provided I am a) near the shooting and b) running maxed ammo packs. Repairing Maxes is my next biggest thing. I repair vehicles as well, of course, but there is the dual hazard of enemy shelling and friendly roadkilling to contend with, plus (quite often) a distressing lack of enemyy infantry in range to fight with.
  12. Klondor

    Nevermind the deployable ammunition pack, or repair tool, or the Medic's revive and medical applicator. :rolleyes:
    • Up x 1
  13. Maecy

    Is the archer a good engie weapon?
  14. LordKrelas

    You can kill Maxes with 3 body shots, or 2 head shots.
    ESFs in around 3-4, Liberators can picked off slowly but still deals damage, same to tanks.
    Two head-shots kills most infantry.
  15. Tattoon

    Ok so the problem i find with Mines is that they are too easy to avoid, their trigger area is too small and mineguard on vehicles, makes mines a very slow way of gaining certs. Compared to a HA who gets alot of kills by using his personal shield and supperior firepower/survivability. I play engi/support because i like the role of support. But i shouldnt be punished because i pull AMS sundys and keeping the fights going. I am pretty much forced to stay at my sundy to repair and constaly babysit it.
  16. Eternaloptimist

    Yes, there is a knack to placing mines where people won't see them until too late.

    Tank mines are often placed in a triangle formation (for chain explosion kills) and in choke points, dips in the ground or places vehicles will always go (like driving off vehicle spawn pads. seeding the ground floor of a tower that is under attack is fun as some attackers do so like to drive a harasser or Lightning into the bay. The main thing is they are defensive weapons except when engies are also known for dropping mines under a stationary vehicle and setting them off with shooting or a sticky 'nade

    I run AI mines myself and killed four attackerss today so far by dropping them in the corners of the room where one of a Tower cap points is. The knack with AI mines is to put them where planetmans are likely to pause long enough for the mine to trigger.

    I don't do much AMS support myself but have you thought about maxing stealth so you can cloak it and leave it to go join the fight? When I do AMS I tend not to get too close to the fight either, so that enemies can't accidentally stumble upon my Sundy or work out where it is from seeing my allies popping into existence.
    • Up x 2
  17. Tattoon

    Sadly the new implant Sweeper makes the engi / mines even less useful. No matter how well you place them and hide them.
  18. Demigan

    Sadly very few people use it, and as Eternaloptimist said you can easily trick people into running on a mine anyway by placing them in corners of towers for example. The mine is exposed but unexpected so people tend to be focused on taking cover when running into the corner. The unexposedness of the mine also increases the chance that it'll actually hit rather than trigger when the guy just passes some cover.
    • Up x 1
  19. VhynSeven

    AND supporting your allies. Spotting, assist kill experience, air deterence, healing and reviving (Medic), ammo ressuply and repair armor (Engineer).

    As an Engie myself, even if my K/D ratio is low as hell i can make a good income with my tools, even more with the ~1500 certs I gained from lvling up to BR 15. I upgraded my Ammo pack and Repair tool to the max, now all I have to do is find a good fight, drop my Ammo pack, and start repairing every vehicule and MAX I can find. Just with that, I gain experience worth serveral kills, especially when Ribbons drop in.

    K/D isn't eveything in this game, especially for support classes.
    • Up x 1

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