For every engagement that involves an attack or defense, I've gotta say I've never wanted an engineer unless I was a max (and even then I just ran NAR so pbbth) or two rare occasions that I didn't find an ENEMY ammo pack. Here's the thing, I play engie, a lot, people don't often come to me for ammo, the fights end far before you really need your entire supply, look at the saw, the carv, the orion, unless you're holding a point yourself against 10 dudes+ you just don't need ammo, even with the lighter infantry I've only needed to find an enemy pack, but that's the thing: Why should I be rewarded by the enemy when I'm the one pushing them? Another thing: Engie just lacks synergy with the rest of the squad, the only time you ever felt like you were helping is when you put down a turret for cover (not to stand on because it's a deathtrap) and even then all you've managed to do is put up a meter of inconvenient space in a hallway (yay for hardlight barriers coming soon), soon this will be something else but what more can you really do as an engie? You provide ammo, that your team will often not be using because the base often will flip (small bases) and people will simply hold the point to be wiped and not need ammo at all or they hold and not need ammo at all. Last thing: Carbines, why does engie share a gun type with another class that does better with it? Sure ya mag dump, ya lose a lot of ammo with the carbine but this is almost never a hindrance to a good light assault and engie will almost never need to use all of his ammunition to even make use of the ammo pack. I'd like to see that ammo packs from enemies do not resupply friendlies unless hacked or something, ammo counts dropped by one mag or two just so that people would think about ammo belt or maybe needing another engie in the squad for a push or SOMETHING that makes engie more....fit for infantry combat. Food for thought?
This role was meant for a game we don't have. There's rarely a need for ammo packs because people rarely live long enough to use up their ammo, and they can just re-spawn and be right back in the fight if they do run dry. For ammo to matter you'd need longer firefights and less ability to re-spawn and be right back in the fight. Engineers are mostly just for vehicle crews, but even then, vehicles are so disposable you see plenty of pilots running LA and tankers using HAs. It's all a mess. Maybe they'll get it right in Planetside 3. OK, back to Arma 3. Have fun with your C4 fairies and 300m render distance.
If you're dieing before you run out of ammo, than you're playing PS2 wrong but I'm sure that your opponents are thanking you for the easy certs.
i think engies are one of the best point holders in the choke-point "peeking around corners and firing rockets" situation you have sticky nades which are hilariously effective if you stick someone as they peak around the corner and then retreat back to their allies. your tool slot has either: an automated turret that acts as a bullet sponge for enemies to target, an alarm system and also supplementary damage. my spitfire has proven invaluable in point defence for me. or a turret you control that offers an indestructible shield covering the majority of the front, LMG damage, pin-point accuracy and 0 recoil. several of these covering an entrance can completely lock it down. you have betties/proxies/claymores to place at the entrances. and yes, you can resupply your allies. if i know we'll be defending a point i'll always equip my spitfire/sticky/betties engie!
I can't follow OPs argument. I play a lot of engie and there is huge synergy with my team: I earn massive xp from the volume of ammo that gets used after I supply it (I go to them, they don't come to me - those little ammo icons above their heads are a magnet to me). Max repairs is also a big part of my work. Carbines are exceptionally good personal defence weapons......and for when you actually take part in the figthing in between repairing and resupplying (which is frequently possible or necessary in base fights) . SMGs and shotties are a bit too limited to close range whereas carbines come in types suitable to all ranges - and I'd take a burst carbine over a BR any day. Other than that, what about: AI and AT mines? I've done a lot of kills putting them in places where enemies are trying to flank my unit or to Max crash a choke point. Auto turret sentries (Spitfire) very handy for noticing LAs swooping in and guarding cap points, spawn sundies etc.- other turrets?......occasionally useful Sticky 'nade - more powerful than frag, goes where you put it and can be carried back home by your enemies if you can stick it to them. All in all, the range of things engies can do make them exceptionally handy for a unit to have around and if they are not then I think the engie is not playing the right way.
Liewec pretty much hit the nail on the head. Sticky grenades are really good for clearing stalemates at doors/hallways/staircases that often happen in point holds. Spitfires are great to have to prevent strange angle flanking attempts without actually having to have a person watching that entrance. Say a two story double stack building. Put a Spitfire in the middle of the staircase leading to the roof. Bam. Just prevented a shotgun light assault from wiping your point hold without having to have actual people on the roof at risk of being lolpodded and otherwise horribly hurt by air. Nothing slams the brakes on a max crash like a well placed minefield. Also at places like tech plants and amp stations, mines at the entrance to the vehicle bay are a great way to ensure no last ditch defending sunderer gets a spawn point set up. Made even more effective now that drivers can't Q spot the mines through gate shields. Ammo resupply is important for non LMG primaries but even more important for things like rocket/rocklet ammo and what is basically an endless supply of recon darts. Anyone who has ever spawned into a base covered in enemy recon darts knows how effective and demoralizing it is. And of course the repair tool is crucial to keeping friendly MAXes in the fight. All in all I think engineers have enough utility to be useful in infantry play and will have even more so once the deployable cover goes live. Quick edit: Kinda agree on the carbine part. I get that it makes sense lore wise seeing as the engineer is supposed to be the vehicle driver class and vehicle crews generally speaking carry shorter weapons so that they won't clip on anything in case said crew has to quickly dismount. Makes sense lore wise, gameplay wise it kinda sucks because other than something like the ACX11, carbines are gimped at longer ranges. Even the so called dedicated mid-long range carbines are outperformed at said ranges by all rounders or even cqc ARs and LMGs. Access to assault rifles or even scout rifles I think would be a nice addition to the engi arsenal.
The engineer is very important, don't be fooled. Ammo packs laid in good spots (encourages suppesive fire, and is all-around help) Repairs as needed Mines (slows enamy, protects sundies, protects possible flanking routes- imagine if everyone placed mines in front of seemingly unstoppable enemy advances) AI Mana turrets hold choke points and firm up advances AT Mana turret is good compliment to anti-vehicle efforts Sticky Grenade Good weapons Yes, the excuses and lowest common denominator arguments will flow per forumside. Don't be led astray by folks looking the game to play them instead of vice-versa. For a person that wants to own their game experience and contribute to the team, the engineer is plenty good.
Of course, if you think stock ammuntion is too plentiful, I have no problem suggesting that we cut all infantry weapon ammo pools of more than 100 rounds in half.
I'd bet 99.9% of lives are lost before they run out of primary ammo. And I honestly think they're playing Planetside right, at least how the devs built this game to be. Spawn, kill, die, spawn, kill die... no downtime, no maneuvering, constant action. If anything, you're playing it wrong, which is sad.
It's not that I run out of ammo, I do that, it's just I've never needed to bother with a friendly engie, I always just redeploy because the fight is over or I just pick up enemy ammo. I find it stupid that I can shoot for the entire fight and never bother for an engie, I find it stupid that you can resupply from enemy engies even when factions have different ammo types, for the vanu the directive weapons never need ammo. Turrets are meh compared to a heavy, a heavy with headshots can almost always win against an engie turret with headshots and thanks to the way clientside works, I can just keep repeeking a corner to deck an engie, his turret is meaningless to me because I know how to headshot him better. Also not mentioning the turret can be shot in the middle with a rocket to kill it outright, so using it as peekable cover is better than it actually being a turret, simply being a shield is more important than being a turret. As soon as hardlight comes in, the turret will be obsolete. And mines.....meh... I generally never notice them, not in a I lose to it way, it's just no one is ever killing me after I nearly die or they det at the wrong time. My max always uses EoD hud anyways so I just avoid mines, the last time I died to a mine is when I was in a tank and thats mostly because I had racer and I couldn't stop hard enough (which I also find dumb). Plus if they put down several at a time I just throw one emp and they're all dead. But the thing is infil can also put mines down and has better abilities, sure not tank mines but if there was a max every single fight (which there isn't) I'd consider engie much more useful, but he's not.
What's an Engineer? Just kidding lol. Ye, engineers are ****. I once dreamed of maining one, then when I realised that they're basically a free kill for Infils/HA's which are pretty much everywhere I dropped that class like an ugly baby. I switch every now and then to repair the sundy, or that MAX that stood around spamming "I need repairs" but that's about as much use as they deserve outside of vehicles.
The Engineer is a very versatile defensive and offensive class. Ammo Packs: The Engineer can keep a push alive, and just as easily keep a defensive position equipped. The amount of points a single Engineer can get with fully upgraded pack. Dropping two pack can cover a large area. Turrets: The Engineers turrets are extremely powerful, the MANA Series give the Engineer a portable defense against Infantry and Vehicles. A good Engineer can hold down a hallway by himself with a AI Turret, and with some support can crush a Vehicle Zerg with his AV MANA. The Spitfire is a good defense and supplemental damage. Put it on a Biolab pad and it will help you shred enemies as they use the Pads. Repair Tool: Self-Explanatory. Repairing Vehicles and MAX is Key to keeping your team in the fight. Explosives: Likewise a well equipped Engineer can break a Siege with the amount of Explosives he carries. Mines, both AI and AV for stopping rushes, and the Engineer can carry enough C4 to destroy a Fully Armored Blockade Sundie. Not to mention a couple of clustered Tanks. Even their weapons are useful, Carbines/SMGs/Shotguns, make the Engineer very deadly at close range. And the BR and Archer give them some long range power, especially against MAX. Granted a LA or Heavy does have the advantage in a fight against the Engineer. But a good Engineer can hold his own.
Ultimate Point Hold Engineer loadout: Spitfire Turret (or stock AI turret) Sticky Nade Archer with stock 4x scope and laser sight Decent backup weapon (i.e. Emissary / Commissioner) Mines (or C4) Flack Armor - or more mines / C4 Seriously, this is such a useful class. Yon don't need a ton of them - 2 / squad - but combined with an infil with darts and heavies spamming doorways with their rocket launchers, you can lay down huge suppressive fire and the spitfire turret helps to disables the LA w/ C4 back door surprise. Combine that with the Archer which you can almost hip fire to thwart Max crashes and you have a very valuable team member. Archer with AI turret is really, really powerful for point hold: you're not going to get a lot of kills, but you have a shield which you can hide behind and swap back and forth to as required: Archer for Maxes, AI turret for general infantry.
Would be nice if my repair gun cert offered FASTER repairs and not more capacity I would like to have mines / spitfires / c4 / grenade launcher (like thumper PS1) default and only available to engy (maybe let LA keep c4 as well) We are a utility class yet the only thing we really do is give out ammo to poor heavies that wandered too far from the 1 of 10 sundies around a biolab fight with an abundance of enemy armor targets around. Turrets are useless for how weak they are... give me an area denial weapon please... support functionality!!!
