End work on Lattice now before any more effort is wasted.

Discussion in 'Test Server: Discussion' started by FrankManic, May 2, 2013.

  1. UberBonisseur

    We didn't have the proper UI at the time.
    And capture times were significantly faster

    Also, at the risk of repeating myself:
    Global redeployment, when, where ?
    • Up x 1
  2. Eugenitor

    We had global redeployment. It didn't fit the "most restrictive options possible" design idea, so they took it out.
    • Up x 3
  3. Aesir

    And for what is the Galaxy than? If you allow everybody to spawn everywhere, you do not need transport at all. Only spawn points.

    Vehicles other than the Sundy would be pointless, because Infantry can redeploy within 15 sec where ever they want to be!

    I think the system should be limited to Warpgate, closest outpost/Tower, closest Main Base, closest AMS.

    This actually would allow to make the ideal setup for big pop differences as a bonus for the outnumbered empire, by giving them more wider range options because of the population difference. And maybe even limiting the number of options for the zerging empire.

    Spawns are the liveblood of battles, you cut the spawns you cut a portion of their numbers.
  4. VSMars

    Another idea for the general redesign/simplification (...since we're breaking up the strategic flow of the continental battle anyway) I just had:


    That would all the conquerable territory on Indar. If you have those nine facilities (sandy yellow circles) and the three strongholds (red stars), you have the continent.

    Rules of the game:

    * The strongholds are just that: Purely military facilities. Taking them requires good planning and superior timing, a lot of luck, or extreme resource and manpower usage. They make taking The Crown and Scarred Mesa look like a stroll up a small hill on a sunny Sunday afternoon. On the other hand, they provide no resources and need to be linked to your warp gate to allow for spawning of heavy hardware.

    * There are a bunch (5 in facility regions, 3 in warpgate regions, for a total of 54) other small bases (not very defensible) and military outposts (slightly more defensible) in each territory which you can conquer; they provide convenient spawn and resupply points, add a bit to your resources if you also control the corresponding facility but don't count for anything else. In particular, capturing them gives no XP.

    * You can only attack bases in a territory where you either control the facility or stronghold, or where you control an adjacent one such.

    * If you ever lose such an adjacency, all the small bases go neutral within a few minutes.

    There we go. Big juicy targets for the simple-minded players to fight for. Fortified installations for your heroic last stands and underhanded strategies. Small points of interest for small fights and infiltration work. Clear, easy to read, easy to understand and symmetrical region system.
    • Up x 3
  5. UberBonisseur

    I've heard this argument times and times again.

    No matter how you try to promote vehicles, I'll just use /suicide 3 times in a row because it only takes 45 seconds as opposed to 2 minutes using vehicles. It will always be faster.

    I'll use a Galaxy when my AMP station is full of enemies and getting out from the spawn is a dead end.
    Because I can drop on the roof and resecure this ****.

    And where were you when Instant action killed the last Gal Taxi ?

    The redeployment system is poorly done, period.
    It picks bases arbitrarily based on location rather than area
    Never lets you redeploy on bases under attack/capture
    Reinforcements needed LOVES sending you into big (allied) zergs

    And I'm sick to see lattice coming in order of priority before a decent redeployment system especially when it uses "ghost capping" as a scapegoat.

    Enable global deployment and ghost capping will cease to exist.
    • Up x 3
  6. Aesir

    Which should not be the chase, you should not be able to do this in my opinion. I rather have them limit the number of possible spawn locations, especially the number of available Sundy spawn options.

    Spawn hopping should not be encouraged, if they intended this, than why did they remove global spawning in beta? Meaning it's clearly not intended to be available.

    If we would stay with the HEX system, yes global respawning with other system to encourage players to actually respond to ghosts ... yes would work and improve the HEX system.

    For the Lattice system the exact opposite needs to be the chase. Less options, no hoping, at best only between 2 lanes, and only if you are at a pop disadvantage.

    Transport Vehicles need a real reason to be there, if they do not get that they need to be re-purposed into something else. The Sundy already has that option because of the AMS and other utility like repair or rearm. The Galaxy right now is a pure Transport Vehicle or FLAK taunt.
  7. Caelun Niveus

    A recent time I found myself defending against a ghost cap, it was me (alone) against one guy in a Reaver. Eventually, another reaver showed up and one more ally showed up. When we finally killed them, that was it. Three minutes trying to kill two people and done. It was an annoying chore, not a fight. And it would have been over faster if they didn't have vehicles.

    The last time I did that it was me alone against a single Heavy Assault who immediately took up camping the spawn-room door. Hardly "all-out combat".

    And the squad I was auto-joined to, who was working an assault at the biolab one hex over (more than close enough to spawn between), didn't even notice or send anyone to deal with the base until the territory flipped. If I'm the only person who is trying to defend the base while a whole platoon is zerging that close by, over then global redeployment would probably make ghost-capping worse. People would either jump across the map to the biggest farm or jump away from a farm to the most undefended region and start capping.

    Maybe, but the problem is the maps are too big for the players. For the hex system to work, we would need full continents all the time, with equal troop distribution across all the "front-lines". But of course then when most the player base goes to sleep someone would stay up and flip all of Indar one color.

    Maybe the return of the Galaxy Gunship? Still, I think especially for what this game is trying to be transports should be more viable. Even if it's just dragging an outfit from one lane to another. Perhaps the problem is that death lacks penalty; cost players infantry resource every time they died so that suiciding to redeploy cripples you in the long run.
    • Up x 2
  8. VSMars

    Wait ... it was a 1 vs. 1 on your base and you lost?!?

    Unless that guy was cheating the whole way through, I don't understand how that's even possible.

    I lose one vs. a full squad, no questions. I often lose one vs half a squad, though not always. One vs. three they have to get lucky. One vs. one?!? That guy shouldn't stand a chance.
  9. Kumaro

    Alert system empties two continents to fill one where people zerg for about 2 hours and then leave.

    Ghost capping has changed yes but is still there and as annoying as ever.

    Base defences are still the joke of the year in games.

    I was never really for the whole lattice thing but i would like a HeX/lattice hybrid. I want a resource system that has heavy strategical impact on how we play. I want bases the requires leader skills and organised troops to take. I want a system that shows a moving front line. I want bunkers and pillboxes. Trenches and Gillie suits for snipers.
    Want less spawns and more transports.

    This game is WW2 Sci-fi twist without the fancy frontlines and tactics from it. and filled with dumb CoD/e-sport lolers that don't know team work if it so shot them in the *** -w-

    Planetside has potential now we are waiting for that potential to be used.
    This game should be a bit of Arma a bit of The BF games and a big chunk of Sci-fi awesomeness.
    and perhaps a bit extra on designer richness and communication.
    I'm still waiting for some of those blocked turrets to be moved on Esamir and Amerish -w-

    • Up x 1
  10. Aesir

    He does if you do not find and blow up his Sundy, Sundy respawn is a few secs faster than base respawn(should be the other way around).
  11. VSMars

    Sunderers are kinda hard to miss and kinda easy to kill if it's just one guy who's spawning there and you have the initiative. Drop two AT mines, shoot them, BOOM. Repeat with C4 if not successful.
  12. Ronin Oni

    have you played since beta? I have.

    We had near global spawn options then. and gals were the AMS's. The game was terrible and had no battle lines.
  13. UberBonisseur

    I was here in beta, Gal AMS was terrible but all the base in the game were designed around it.

    However, removing global spawn was a mistake; if I remember correctly, the timer was 15 for every base instead of increasing gradually based on distance.

    Later in beta however, the game had MORE strategy than now.
    • Up x 2
  14. SiosDashcR

    This would actually work really well and it's a combination, to some degree, of the lattice and hex system.

    With lesser bases, infantry wouldn't be as so far spread out and ghost capping wouldn't occur because there's only so many bases you can want to go to.

    Only way to fix ghost capping is to reduce the amount of bases or influence points. I'm better with the former as capping around enemies when they're too blind to notice a squad flank, helps cut their supply off.
  15. Ronin Oni

    No it wasn't...

    to easy for large amounts of troops to instantly move across the battlefield.

    There's no logistics in that.

    It's why they removed the multiple choice Instant Action as well. Cause zergfits like Enclave could instantly transport 4km across the battlefield and drop 150 troops right on an enemy offensive

    Redploying every time to move another 1km is 10 seconds redploy timer, then 20 seconds spawn point timer, for 30sec per 1km... You can fly faster than that and even a harasser is good for moving that far that fast.
  16. UberBonisseur

    Once again, nonsense.

    Zergfits can still redeploy wherever they want with multiple /suicides.
    However, it's the lone player which ignores the command who will not redeploy there.

    Outfits do whatever it takes.
    Lonewolves won't do it if they find it tedious.

    I want a single 45 sec redeploy timer in place of 3 /suicides and it would be stupid to oppose that.
    Global redeployment, resecure XP and 2-man control point flip to end ghost capping.

    How hard is that ?
    • Up x 1
  17. Whiteagle

    Yeah, some of us aren't uber MLG twitch gaming gods with liquid nitrogen cooled towers and jiga-bit internet connection, so we have to play SMARTER instead of BETTER.
    • Up x 2
  18. Caelun Niveus

    You assume I have the certs to spend on either mines or C4. Heavy Assault default rockets are my only option.

    He merely had a really good position looking at the spawn room door. I would be in the extreme open, while he had a fence to hide behind (and of course he was to the side of the door, so I couldn't use the shields to my advantage). I forget whether I spent enough time respawning for him to take the base, or if a Sunderer DID show up bringing two more people (the latter baby-sat the sundy and I couldn't out-damage his repairs with rockets). There was that sundy, I just forget if that was before or after this other guy.

    I will also admit to not being the best player in the world.
  19. Aesir

    If we would stay with the Hex system, yes this would be better but the redeploy should have a 1min+ timer atleast. But that's my opinion.

    However, we will most likely get the Lattice system, meaning there should be less spawn options, less redeploying to prevent lane hoping. Unless you are heavily out populated on that Continent as a more impacting bonus for being out populated.

    Redeploy should be a feature for reorganizing to a save place, not instant battle switching, making transport rather useless in an defensive scenario.

    HOWEVER, there should be alert redeploys with a major timer, shared with Instant action, so you can switch once but not nonstop. It's mainly to get lonewolfs to the battle.
  20. FrankManic

    Wow. I can't believe this is still going. Huh. Guess there's more opposition than I thought.

    Well: Lattice is still a bad idea that substitutes Hexs problems for a completely new, equally bad set of problems, strips complexity out of PS2, encourages the worst kind of zerging (PS1 "Defensible Bases" was 45 minutes to 2 hours of running up a stairway trying to throw a grenade before you got mowed down by thirty locked down TR maxes. The only reason it was "Fun" was because there wasn't anything else) and generally takes a complex, interesting game with a lot of potential and reduces it to a glorified arena system

    It exacerbates population imbalance

    It exacerbates the already very high system requirements

    It reduces individual input and importance to nil.

    Hex has problems. Hex is still better than Lattice. Look for ways to fix Hex, don't cut it out entirely and try to slap something even more problematic rudely into it's place.