I'm looking for folks who have put more than a few certs down on both. I'm an AA tank Engineer. I like the speed of my Lightning, the fact that I can get out and repair her myself, and the fact that it's hard for infantry to cause me much grief unless I'm stupid or they're lucky. Is there a compelling reason that a MAX (which I've only dabbled in and don't have a single cert in) would be any more effective at the job of getting aircraft to the ground in flaming heaps of death? I'm hoping for actual experience, not theory. Just a curious tank wondering if he's dumping certs down the wrong rabbit hole! Thanks all in advance. /salute
AA MAXes are pretty durable and seem to cause a lot more damage than the Skyguard. Lightnings are much larger targets than MAXes as well. A lot of people are saying that the Skyguard needs some superior stuff; I'm inclined to agree. As it stands, however, the Skyguard Lightning does have some advantages. Most notably, it is able to keep up with an armoured column, unlike a MAX player who is tied to a Sunderer for transport. It's impossible to get run over by friendly tanks in a Skyguard Lightning. If your Skyguard Lightning is wrecked, you're generally able to bail out and be the gunner for another tank or play as good old fashioned Engineer for a while; AA MAXes are exclusively AA and should not try to fight anything on the ground. As aforementioned though, AA MAXes are pretty much the staple of ground based AA next to the stationary turrets. There're also several experience issues with playing AA...I prefer to keep out of that sort of controversy and complaining and whatnot.
Yep, I'm aware of the current state of AA in the game, and yep--I'd like to steer clear of thread creep on that as well-on that we're completely in agreement. Good pro / con list there. Thank you!
I haven't used a Skyguard ever, but from being shot by one they do quite a bit of devastating damage to aircraft if you can land your hits. They can certainly move faster on their own than a max can as well as eat more damage, but they are also bigger targets. From the few times I've been shot down by them I think I can safely say one skyguard will out DPS a max if both are landing all of their hits (however, and I hate to throw some theorizing at you, I've seen videos of skyguards being used, and it looks like they have a rather poor drop off and/or velocity for a weapon that requires you to aim better than you would need to with Burster Flak cannons). Now AA MAX I play quite a bit, and I'm rather fond of the MAX unit itself. I had written a whole paragraph about what I think of it and what the obvious differences are to a Skyguard, but I think I'll just break it down into lists (And this is primarily comparing some obvious differences between a MAX AA and a Lightning AA). MAX PRO: -Can go where any infantry can go, including on top of some buildings. -Smaller target -Can switch loadouts at an infantry terminal when AA stops being necessary -Can resupply from an engineer or infantry terminal -Can spawn at any base MAX CON: -Slower than a Lightning tank -Requires other engineers to repair -All infantry weapons are dangerous to an AA max (flak bursters are useless against infantry) I'm having a hard time of thinking of more CONs, though to be honest the few I've listed make all the difference. A skyguard lightning can be much more independent due to being able to repair it yourself, and its ability to travel so fast. A max will generally need other infantry supporting it, and a Sunderer to take it places outside of the base it spawned from (in a reasonable amount of time anyway). I didn't mention Armor because I really think its about equal for the two depending on your upgrades. I've got 3 ranks into Flak armor for my Max and 2 dumbfire rocket direct hits are needed to kill me, and its about the same for a vanilla lightning, possibly more if equivalent ranks were put into armor.
Outstanding writeup, Beartornado. Thank you! Though I would kill to be able to head to a "garage" and switch loadouts without dumping my current tank!
A 'garage' feature would be useful. As it stands you are forced to be Anti-Air until the lightning timer runs out, this alone is why I would not recommend the Skyguard turret. There is also the whole infantry render distance thing, so you will be invisible to the pilots a lot of the time.
I have put a substantial amount of certs in Skyguard on my VS toon. Got the Stealth upgrades for anti-lockon, Got the smoke upgrades to break target lock against me, I have the combat upgrade for increased agility. Also have about 900 rounds carried on the weapon.....have not bothered with optics as I noticed it screws my aim right off. I no longer pilot these, as I find them lacking. Pros. 1) Area Coverage....you can scoot about at great speed to get to a firing point and retreat. 2) You can keep with and protect convoys. 3) Small machine is able to hide reasonably well....apart from the gay disco camo. 4) You can carry a lot of ammo, to keep annoying aircraft longer. 5) Drive as an engineer to keep yourself repaired. Cons. 1) You either have to be within travel range of an ammo tower or a AMS ammo truck. 2) You can be spotted a lot earlier and easier than a MAx unit. 3) You are terrain bound, though agile for a vehicle...you are still restricted to certain routes. 4) You can drive well, or you can shoot well....it is very hard to drive and shoot. 5) Obviously you cannot enter base structures. 6) Weapon Accuracy seems to be slightly " off "..I find it far harder to hit with a skyguard than Flak weapons ( at any range ) 7) Your weapon ceiling is not as high as suggested...Liberators at 1000m are immune to you unless you climb a hill. 8) Actual Weapon damage seems quite low to me...I do not care what it says on paper..in actual use, I cause less damage than when I am in a max....less damage, normally results in aircraft getting a kill. 9) Very,Very slow return on xp/kills. MAx Unit. I am now investing heavily in these on all three of my toons. VS,TR,NC on seperate servers. All have identical loadouts and all perform essentialy the same. The reason being is I have never liked a gamestyle that puts personal gain beyond fair play or for the general good of the game, at this present time it is Liberator spamming...in the Old Planetside 1, I specialised in playing an Anti-BFR operative ( Big Fuggin Robot ) that was causing the same problems back then...and effectively lost a large number of players through frustration at the BFRs. I run with Dual Bursters. You either fully specialise as AA or you Do not. A single burster is not much use. I carry as much extra ammo as I can cert. I do not bother with armour upgrades because when you get Lib/Reaver/Mossie spammed it makes bugger all difference. Pros. 1) Agile. You can get into some really impressive nooks and crannies in some unexpected places. 2) Camoflagued. You are small, and when crouched in a shadowed area in rough terrain, you are not an obvious target. 3) You can fight from within structures, and defend bases from gantries etc. 4) You can be repaired by infantry engineers. 5) You can ressuply at terminals, AMS, or Engineer packs. 6) You can walk and shoot with no great effect on accuracy and have a far better 360 degree coverage than the skyguard. 7) I find it very much easier to hit with bursters even at extreme altitude, the burster does appear able to hit high altitude targets better than skyguard. Cons. 1) You are very reliant on ammunition, either need to be near terminals or ammo packs. 2) You are reliant on transport, while no slower than other infantry you need to keep up. 3) When getting Liberator Spammed, you are no more likely to survive than any other unit...if you cannot get out of the door, then you are useless. 3) Dual Burster makes you weak ( but not helpless ) against anything other than aircraft. 4) #### 2 bursters on the same MAx Unit does not enable you to kill an undamaged aircraft outright without reloading.#### ESF....a full clip ( both burster )..you will get them down to about 15%-20%. Liberator....a full clip ( both Burster )...down them to about 70-75% Galaxy....I do not tend to fire at these, anyone brave enough to pilot that it seems almost unfair to target...but you knock them down to 80%. Assuming you are a good shot. 5) Very,Very Poor xp/kill rate. 6) you must rely on other players for healing and repairs...if they can be bothered to help you. Summary. I use MAx Unit all the time now, its effective to a degree( especially compared to skyguard )....but It was never intended to work solo or indeed to have to fight aircraft in some overwhelming numbers as at the moment. Get used to being annoyed when you have ambushed an absolutely attrocious aircraft that was camping while hovering or stationary above you and spamming infantry that cant fight back, for them to either shrug off the damage and kill you ( liberator ) or to press their afterburner and escape, when in all fairness their stupidity should have got them killed.
If you're in a base (or some decent rocks) use a MAX. For a moving force or to harass planes in the countryside, use a lightning.
I'm pretty sure my Dual AA MAX deals more damage than my Skyguard. They need to make the Skyguard do more damage.
I wonder how inaccurate it is, then! I'm constantly destroying the skies in my Skyguard tank. Adjust for speed / distance to target, aim the reticle at the position where the aircraft will *be* by the time your rounds get to it, and then track that forward, adjusting for flight path and speed of the aircraft as it changes. Dead aircraft. It's working really well for me--well, I should say that I'm having a great deal of fun doing it. Maybe it's not "six shots and the target explodes", but I have taken down so very, very many aircraft this way that it's hard to complain about it too much. Draw distance is the main thing I'd like fixed so far...but I play for fun and I don't run the numbers like more dedicated players might.
WTB your magic Skyguard cannon. I find it to be drastically more difficult to hit anything in the Skyguard compared to the Burster MAX due to the cone of fire problems.
This is primarily why I posted in the first place. I was curious about the comparison, as I've never MAXed before. I don't know based on this thread whether I want to spend any certs on finding out just yet. The pluses don't outweigh the minuses of switching yet. I sure enjoy hearing from other AA players, though. New perspectives and all...!
