[Discussion] Gladius

Strawman, moving the goalposts.

Contest the validity of my claims regarding the importance of accuracy or accept them.

Gladius stand move ADS: 0.35
Anchor Stand move ADS: 0.35
Gladius: WAAAAH WAAAH CAN'T HIT ANYTHING
Anchor: Perfectly fine
there is no goal post moving.
there is no strawman.
there simply is double standard from NC because you can't do anything else than cry.

Gladius stationary & crouched ADS: 0.35
Anchor stationary & crouched ADS: 0.03
Gladius CoF bloom: 0.07
Anchor CoF bloom: 0.06

Yeah idiot, they're totally the same accuracy.

Now, if you'll not present a legitimate counter argument or point relative to the topic at hand, I'm afraid I'll not be able to humor you any further.

INTENDED range of the Gladius: short
INTENDED range of the Anchor: medium
is the accuracy of the gladius an issue? lol no.
SMGs hit rate at range is governed by super strong horizontal Recoil, not by accuracy. the gladius has the least horizontal recoil of any SMG. The only reason why you are ignoring these facts is because the Gladius isn't "THE SINGLE BEST GUN IN THE GAME" because NC will not stop whining unless they have that.

There's definitely an element of truth to this. In terms of horizontal recoil, the per-shot kick on the gladius is noticeably average to below average, and relative to its rate of fire, it's definitely low recoil. Comparatively speaking, the gladius is a strong contender for most controllable. It's no carbine mind you, nor does it have the spray and pray nature of most other SMG's, but within typical SMG ranges ( and even a bit farther), its high controllability can make it something of a monster. I have been on the receiving end of this enough to know.

After a certian point, the SMG accuracy does come into play ( usually past 45 meters) but this sits noticeably outside of the typical effective range for SMG's.

Also, and I may be wrong on this, but I believe the anchor is not a 200 damage model weapon, so its not a great comparison.

While true the horizontal recoil is fairly low, it's a characteristic shared by the other 200/~500 weapons. Of which it suffers more than any other of its damage pedigree.

However, recoil is only one way of controlling range. The Gladius' range is short, very short, because of the massively intense damage drop and dreadful accuracy. Not only will many more shots miss as range increases, but the number of shots to kill will also increase. For a weapon with a fire rate dependent on accuracy as you know, this becomes a real problem. Controllability isn't all that important in my mind, not when there are more predominant factors inhibiting the range.

Ought to play around with it in the VR, hopefully you'll see what I mean.

Aye, Anchor is a 167/600 gun. Pruddy is just referencing a past conversation between the two of us which I alluded to.

Keep in mind though, by SMG standards, this weapons damage drop is standard ( all faction SMG's and I believe all NS SMG's drop the same number of damage levels), and its damage drop range is the highest of any SMG in game.

By 200 damage model standard, yes, this weapon is seriously flawed. No question. All it has going for it its rapid handling in that sense.

However, by SMG standards, its very controllable, with best in class range. I will admit that it has the draw back of penalizing missed shots more heavily with its slower fire rate, however, within its effective range, its high degree of control means its less likely to miss shots as well.

It kinda depends on which standard your trying to hold it too. Holding it the 200 damage model standard, it sacrifices performance for mobility and maneuverability.

Conversely, when held to SMG standards, it boasts phenomenal controllability and range, at the expense of being one of the least forgiving SMG's with missed shots.

I really want the OP to explain why he says the gun is "designed to be long range". I think from that paradigm is where the disagreement comes from. It's an SMG ideally used in Extreme CQC at barrel stuffing range where bloom/accuracy doesn't really matter. I run it with a NAC Infil w adren pump, really the only time I use an smg.
It's become my go to CQC infil weapon, I just can't use the cyclone again for some reason.

True enough, but for NC/~500RPM guns it's extremely substandard. Evermore when four of the five classes have another 200/~500 weapon in direct competition for the primary slot. Needless to say a weapon built and balanced around dealing high damage needs to hold on to at least some of that damage if it is to be successful.

It really holds no range at all though. I suppose compared to the non-NS SMGs it has the same or slightly longer dropoff ranges, but without comparing it to anything in particular I find it very lacking. SMGs don't have much range to being with. Here is where the terrible accuracy and bloom kick in at full force, regardless of its "meh" recoil.

I don't really feel it has any more mobility or maneuverability than any other SMG though it does over another 200/~500. Quite the cost if you ask me. Blitz or Cyclone would be more agile with their higher RoF.

I guess I could really sum it all up by saying even with having the longest damage dropoff ranges of any SMG it's still a 167-125 damage SMG at a low RoF of only 522 while being the least accurate primary weapon. Outside of maybe 10 meters DPS is going to suffer hard, harder than a faster-firing SMG or longer range 200/~500.

Well, I say so based on the damage model primarily.

Every other 200/~500 gun in the NC arsenal is unequivocally a long range weapon with long range attributes, of which the Gladius shares many. --Small magazines, long reloads, poor hipfire accuracy, low horizontal recoil, and of course high damage, low rate of fire. The damage dropoff rates for the Gladius while terrible are also still above all other non-NS SMGs.

I do agree the Gladius is good in barrel-stuffing range though. Negates the range and accuracy penalties.

Quick correction. No SMG in game to my knowledge has a 167-125 damage drop off model. Any SMG with 167 max has only 100 minimum damage ( cyclone, and jackal as examples). The gladius's 112 minimum is admittedly a heavy drop, but its also harder hitting then any other SMG, and at longer distances.

To be fair though, I basically always run my SMG's with a forward grip, and tend to heavily prefer aimed fire. So to me, the gladius's accuracy makes it a very strong weapon within SMG ranges ( up to 30 meters). True, the base spread is higher, but 0.35 is still of minimal consequence at ranges of less then 45 meters ( beyond that... yeah, it creates problems). Given that average SMG effective combat range is 30m or less, the aimed spread doesn't matter that much, and its low recoil means it can use its range very effectively.

Maybe this just has to do with me being used to using and fighting against SMG's at close to their range limits, but I have found the gladius can be terrifying to fight against. Would I go for it normally if I did play a lot of NC? Probably not, but that has more to do with my style of shooting then the weapons stats. I have seen a lot of players use its controllability to go on utter rampages. True, it has issues. Unless one has the aim it demands, it is very tricky to use outside of barrel stuffing, and I fully admit, I am not great at that sort of precise shooting. But there are definitely players who have that skill set out there.

"167-125" refers to the average damage the Gladius will deal outside of CQC. The "between the extremes" if you will. Most bases aren't exclusively CQC and it's very unlikely to kill many enemies out past 50 meters.

I used to share the same opinion, and while the Gladius needs a grip over a lazor with it's dreadful hipfire, I've found myself fond of hipfire headshoting with the Blitz and MKV. Not something I'm used to, but I can't deny the fun or effectiveness.

0.35 is a bad place to start, but don't discredit the 0.07 bloom per shot either. In a heated battle with ADAD, heavy shields, nanoweave, and PS2's hit registration suddenly it's not so accurate.

There's a multitude of better guns for precision, including other 200s. But I guess we'll have to agree to disagree, seems we're just repeating the same points here.

I'd say if you ever end up on NC to give it a try for yourself, but it'd be quite a heavy investment to cert it up.

The eridani is a substandard gun compared to every other 750rpm gun.
the Sirius is a substandard gun compared to every 845rpm gun
the Armstice is a substandard gun compared to every 896rpm gun
you are not even trying anymore. you are simply crying that the Gladius is an SMG, not that it is badly balanced.

For me the Gladius just sort of "clicks" with me i guess?
I really cannot say why as it is a bit tricky to get working well and there probably are better or different options out there.
There's times I've been in real serious doo-doo on the point room alone against a zerg and it will massacre the incoming enemies like it's an extension of my arms. Other times it's hopeless, the recoil can be a *****. But if you get the jump on a group at CQ then that 200dmg makes it a real murder-machine i find.

just compare Gladius to Canis and think again. Hell, compare Gladius to any VS SMG! I'd kill a kitten (preferably my neighbor's) for having anything close to Gladius on VS side.

Give it a try before taking such drastic actions.

As someone who's auraxium'ed every 200-damage primary in the game, I agree with OP; Gladius is a mediocre gun at best. Fun? Perhaps. But mediocre from a competitive standpoint. There's a reason I (as TR fighting NC) didn't see a single Gladius during the recent Community Smash.

As a person who hasn't unlocked all those weapons. And doesn't care to unlock all those weapons. I firmly disagree with the OP.

Is the gun mediocre? No.

Is the gun fun? Hell yeah.

Can it be dominating? Yep.

Do people hate/disparage it? Apparently.

And that reason is: Different situation, different gun. Community Smash got nothing to do with everyday gameplay. During Community Smash you suddenly see lancer squads, for example.

I saw lots of other SMGs. Cyclone, PDW, Armistice.