Current state of the NC MAX vs. TR/VS MAX

One of the major reasons and major ways the NC AI MAX was nerfed was AI MAX vs AI MAX, so it's pretty relevent.

These days 3 out of 4 NC AI weapons won't beat a TR or VS AI MAX when it's standard MAX vs standard MAX or fully upgraded KA5 MAX vs fully upgraded KA5 MAX, and this is at 0m, the NC AI MAXs simply don't carry enough damage per clip.

So NC AI MAXs basically lose 3/4 of the time against other AI MAXs (at 0m - at longer ranges they lose even more).




And yes the Fracture is not only the best AV weapon at AV, but it's actually a ridculously viable AV weapon at AI.

Lol, vr them. I did. Im not whining they are.

Vs have considerable acc compared to the others.
Tr max miniguns have moderate amount of acc
Nc shotguns wont hit much past a few meters.

Ive spent time in vr with them all and i own a dual muti max which ive racked up like i think 106 kills with.

Nc max ive used a fair bit in vr...even with slugs its nothing to amazing.

If any singular feature really lets it down its mag size. If soe simply gave them double ammo they would b alot better. 12-16 for regular load, 24-36 for exmags.

Q:

Are you comparing only TTK or do you factor in such as the shield that the NC max can use? I don't play NC max much at all, but can't you shield up while reloading and then continue shooting?

I think there is a lot of TR and VS maxes that would rather have that shield ability at the expense of slightly lower damage.

The problem of the NC Max is it's magazine size is low, the reload speed is long, and slugs can hardly hit anything. Buff slugs and the magazine size of NC Max shotguns and it may be more in line again, while you're at it though, TR and VS could actually use a buff to their CQC Variant machine gun things, they hardly increase DPS.

Damage per clip which results in TTK (3 out of 4 NC AI weapons need a 4 second reload).

The Shield can make a difference but remember this is at 0m, at 0m it is very easy to just strafe around a shield or just plain clip straight through the shield making it ineffective.

As soon as you're talking about any range the NC AI MAXs aren't going to be landing anything close to 100% of their Damage per clip, but the TR/VS MAX still will be.


Also when you factor in the Shield you then have to factor in Lockdown 5 and ZOE 5 both of which add as much to the equation as Shield 5 could.




The NC AI MAX is in a weak position MAX vs MAX these days, at least as weak as it was strong on release.
Of course it's still going to get kills (NC KA 5 MAX vs Standard TR/VS MAX wins - but so it should), but it is weak.

tbh I wouldn't mind at all if the NC had bigger clips as long as the TR and VS also have the chance to kill enemy max with 1 full magazine.

Aside from everything else, I'd be able to settle if the NC max wasn't so heavily reliant on getting extended magazines to even combat other maxes for at least 3/4 of our max AI weapons. NC maxes need to spend an extra 1000 certs to even be able to kill another max within their range, that's not decked out in kinetic. Seriously though, NC max magazine sizes need to be brought up to extended mag numbers -1 and the extended mag needs to add 3-4 bullets to the magazine. At least then, the long reloads won't hurt as much as they do.

HAHAHHAAA. Translated Yes it stinks compared to other maxes, and I don't use it so who cares?

Anyone that plays objectively knows that the NC max is the worst of the maxes.

This being the internet means some know-it-all will state otherwise while using their VS/TR max with tape on the left mouse button holding down a point with 1 engineer spewing a constant rate of fire.

I would gladly trade my VS MAX for the NC MAX. Grass is always greener. I have all three MAX suits geared out and I prefer the NC MAX the most. It specializes in something and dominates because of it. My VS MAX has ZOE which is nice for an overall MAX. I can zip around and even dodge some rockets and bunny hop a little, but a single rocket to my face with even a little damage kills me instantly. Also I glow purple which is a painted target at night. The TR MAX seems to be the one I dislike the most. The weapons are good, but it doesn't really have that same roll the VS and NC MAXes have.

My NC MAX, for the record, can easily kill TR and VS MAX suits with the hacksaw. If a VS MAX has ZOE on I can kill them very easily. Blueshifts are wickedly accurate in contrast and I can hit people trying to pelt me from behind cover easier, whereas my NC MAX would just re-position my VS MAX just shoots it out.

The only saving grace to the TR MAX is really the fracture which is great at infantry killing and tank killing.

One on one in CQC NC MAX will always win (all other things equal). They are the best at holding points in buildings and camping doors. They also have a much better fear factor to them than the other two which lowers enemies shooting at you close up. So if you position yourself well you have nothing to worry about save C4 ( which every max worries about - except VS =P ). I do not think any of the MAX suits need a change currently. They are all working fine IMO.

The first point was (and is?) the problem with NC MAX. I think we should restore the rate of fire for NC MAX but reduce damage against MAXes from the pellets to compensate. It would make the weapons as fun to use against infantry as they used to be again without making them as powerful against MAXes as they used to be. Also it makes perfect sense that small bullets deals less damage against big armor.

Fracture is versatile but people exaggerate because they want a sharp rock-paper-system game when it comes to MAX weapons. It's only advantageous against infantry outdoors. It's a good weapon against MAXes and great against vehicles.

I think we could have the magazine and reload speed if we just restored the ROF. I think slugs should be a bit more accurate yes but should do less damage just enough to not kill infantry with 2 shots. I think that should be unique to pellets.

Yeah it is the same problem, only now basically opposite.

At least with the intial way there was an arguement for saying that the NC AI MAX should be more powerful at 0m.

In fact in PS1 it was balanced this way almost perfectly, just in PS2 they seem to have forgotten all that.

It's the best MAX AV weapon at AV (and with lock-down 5 it'll have a decent stab at AA too ).

But yeah it's not a 0m AI weapon, and things like the Mercy are better than it at AI to a reasonable range.

However it outperforms NC AI weapons AI-wise quite quickly with range and is the best long range AI MAX by far weapon as well.

DPS doesn't mean **** if you can't get the kill with one clip because the enemy MAX is wearing kinetic armor. Then you have a 3 second reload while he slaughters you, and I swear to God, if you suggest using the derpshield to survive during that time, imma slap you upside the head.

This is why I run slugs. At 20m I'm actually putting more hurt on you than you are me and you're too far to hit my feet through my Aegis

The only things the NC MAXes need are:

1) Aegis needs to boost forward movement speed at the cost of reverse/strafe staying at their current glacial rate
2) We need an actual, honest-to-god deep mag variant. Grinders get 2 more shells and 4 more in reserve compared to the rest. Mutilators are 100 in the mag and 700 in reserve and Cosmos are a balance of big *** damage and deep *** mags.

I realize 25 round shotguns aren't going to be making an appearance, but I'd honestly like to see the Mattocks shifted to being slug-only, 25 round mag weapons with maybe 120 in reserve. Non-auto and slug only would mean it'd be a liability up close but would free up the MAX in a big way.

It's absolutely ******** that to be effective within 5m an NC MAX must spend 1000 certs on exmags, and then spend another 300 on slugs if they're to be effective past 10m. And that's per weapon variant! I spend 500 certs on my TR MAX and I'm set for life because dual Mutilators are incredible out of the box.

Not if my purple *** is madly strafing in and out of cover

I've actually started to work on a strategy vs NC MAX's one on one where I toggle ZOE on and off in conjunction with when they're reloading/firing and based on how good I feel like my cover is. Having it off for a few seconds while they're firing doesn't seem to impact my TTK too much but it can make a big difference in how many hits I can take from them. And, in close range even ZOE doesn't really help you dodge the pellets.

Haven't fought many MAX's running slugs though, don't know how that strategy would work then.

Whoever is running autorepair would win, as it'd be a battle of attrition. What I generally do in this case is just run up and steal your cover because my higher alpha means I'll win that fight and if you flee I can then make better use of the cover than a constant-fire weapon can.

That or just keep you distracted until a friendly LA C4's you

The initial instinct of the ZOE MAX would be to rush up to that range and just stay there unloading Cosmos, but that'd be incorrect because at that range my slugs are EACH doing ~650 damage (13.5% of your health per click, about 30-50% per second) per headshot and I'm pumping them out at like 250rpm. A Cosmos going full auto will have to settle for body shots @ 34 damage per bullet after resistances (unless you're in ZOE, in which case I win because you're taking so much more damage). This is a battle a slug MAX should always win. Slugsaws are absurdly lethal against MAXes up close but I'd still say Grinders are your best bet overall.

If it's 1v1 generally the ZOE ends up cheesing it when they're suddenly at 1/4 health or, if I've got any friends in the area, they die with horrible swiftness.

At least the NC MAX kills in less than second inside it's clearly stated use area. At least the NC MAX let's you deploy a powerful shield to defend yourself WHILE YOU RELOAD. At least the NC MAX don't have a faction trait ability that locks you into place and restricts your turn-arc to a mere 90 degrees at best.

If you want longer range, do a Raven MAX. IT works great against infantry as well as tanks, even if it's not as effective. Just like Fracture MAXes, only with the benefit of being able to guide the missiles to their targets. Is it an ideal solution? No. Is it as completely useless as you claim? According to all the people still using the scatter MAX and raven MAX on a daily basis, NO.

At first you had a generic, un-backed claim, little more than a whine. Then you offer some more personal opinion sprinkled with personal experience, as they say, anecdotal evidence at best.

MY experience with Cycler MAXes and Fracture MAXes is that cyclers take a while to kill reliably in close quarters, meaning that if you face 3+ enemies, by the time you have killed the second one the 3rd have flipped out a rocket launcher and shot you, tossed C4 or managed to find cover to do either of the above, or flee. You are as slow as an NC MAX without the ability to deploy a shield or pop a DPS/speed boosting ability to get your 350 resource investment out of harm's way.

Fractures kill infantry with two volleys, that is, 4 missiles, PROVIDED YOU HIT WITH ALL 4. That means that regardless of range you TTK is lower than cyclers, you just have the ability to reliably kill anything at all outside of 15-20 meters, as opposed to Cycler MAXes. Anything outside of that range and the TR AI MAX weapons are to inaccurate to reliably kill anything with any kind of speed. It's possible, sure, but will take valuable time, time that you usually don't have. I pull AI MAXes for base defense/attack duties and Fracture MAXes for field work.

You would be wise to leave scatter MAXes for base work and pull Raven MAXes for other ranges.

TR and VS AI MAXs can (with the right weapons) kill in under a second at 0m.

NC AI MAX have more % time reloading and a longer absolute reload time on top of that.

It's certainly situational, but the last data SOE gave showed it was used more than Aegis Shield:

Ravens are an ok option, but they aren't anything like as effective AI-wise as Fractures (although that's not to say that I think Ravens should be buffed AI-wise).

Or whoever has Kinetic armor xD

I've thought about seeing how that couple'd with ZOE(Which effect is taken into account first) But It's really hard to turn down the ability to cower in a corner for 30 seconds and get half your health back .

When I'm playing ZOE I try to stay about 20m away from EVERYTHING, my Cosmos are accurate enough to still kill reliably at that range and my ZOE makes it a real b*tch for anyone to hit me with a dumbfire(because ouch!) and slightly more difficult to land shots in general. Up close and personal it feels the TTK advantage(slight) of ZOE is over ridden by the increased damage you take(not insignificant) unless it's just one guy that you insta-big with a few headshots. I like to use my MAX a lot like a LA(Jumpjets plox?), to hit and run, kill a few people, retreat behind cover, and harrass. In a straight up grindfest ZOE just makes you die too quickly and if you turn it off well... you're just a plain old MAX again without shiny lights and buffed speed... and no one wants that.