Crossbow : Explosive Bolts, The new universal AV

Giving light assaults explosive bolts for a secondary crossbow would make it so they can solo a sunderer again, so I approve.

I'd add the effective range to the list. And by effective I mean the range in which you can hit the head reliably. Extremely low projectile velocity will make sure that the effective range won't be high unless you're shooting at stationary targets that deserve to die anyway.

I don't understand why they are giving this weapon to every class, it's an infiltrators dream weapon.

If this is how they are going to do it, then can you please let the infiltrators use shotguns? And I'm not talking about the new NC sniper/shotgun, I want to use my Haymaker as an inf.

Well

Lets look at this methodically shall we?
One hit kills to the head are not new, rockets dont NEED a headshot and can be used to snipe due to rather low drop off.
Shotguns with slugs can 1 shot to the head. . .and have scopes to do it
I could list more but it begs me to say one more point, velocity
BASR's have good velocity to be used at range or against moving targets. The crossbow does NOT have the velocity to do so and the drop is horrendous. Up close it is "easier" on targets who dont move like in live server not to mentionthe difficulty of precisely timing the shot and drop to actually hit the head!
This leads me to the third and more important difference. The HUGE skill FLOOR, NOT ceiling! This weapon will require a very LARGE amount of precision to get kill beyond 10-20m. I am quite certain your precious BASR kills reliably from MUCH further away, why? Because there is not such a large degree of prediction needed. you have less drop and higher velocity to use it.
Is the new crossbow strong? sorta. Is it anywhere close to a BASR level? HECK NO!

And what defines a BASR?
-Higher caliber round that deals high damage at range, usually a headshot kills.
-longer 1 shot range than any other weapon class (aside from rockets and other 1 hit kill weapon such as vehicles, certain turrets exc.)
-Highest magnification scopes
-Bolt chambering of rounds
-Extremely high accuracy at range

So what of these does the crossbow have?
-Does NOT have high damage at range, droppoff kills its 1 hit kill potential.
-Does NOT have a longer 1 hit kill range than other 1 hit kill headshot weapons
-Does have up to 4X, but so do other weapons comparable, and does not have the higher magnification scope most BASR's have
-Does manually rechamber rounds (though this hardly affects anything aside from the fact you can fire more than once before reloading, which by the way, this thing has two shots less than any other BSAR)
-Does have moderate accuracy, HOWEVER, this is HEAVILY mitigated by the hefty projectile drop and low velocity

So. . .is it good in its little niche? yes. Is it on the level, heck anywhere CLOSE! of BASR's? NO!

Sadly not, which is why I said "Unless I'm horribly mistaken."

I only vaguely remember the discussion and recall that the Commissioner and Underboss were bounced back and forth as a reason not to do it and...again...unless I'm mistaken, the two pistols that weren't planned to receive them. I always throw some sort of disclaimer-like text when I believe I could be wrong.

Yes, I should have specified this myself.

Yeah, because bullet drop is such a devastating feature that no-one could ever overcome. Last I checked, it also had a 6x scope...I was actually learning to compensate for that horrible bullet drop you're referring to...which took about two seconds because I'm actually accustom to more extreme bullet drop from games back in the day. It's normally why I do better when I have a suppressor on my bolt-actions; the watered down bullet drop in the game is what throws me off more than actual bullet drop. It's not difficult to compensate for. The velocity is pretty bad, I'll give you that. It has superb accuracy, if the enemy doesn't move before you complete the rechambering cycle...just click again and they're dead.

There's a difference between this and the shotgun, the latter not being effective outside an extremely limited range. As for the rocket launcher, I'm one of those individuals who believes that AV weapons should all one-hit-kill infantry without flak armor....but those weapons should be balanced around not being practical for such applications.

I would compare the Xbow to a combination between our close ranged bolt-action and semi-auto rifles. It has some pretty hefty bullet drop that you'll ultimately compensate for, and a very low bullet velocity...but it's silent and extremely accurate, which makes up for this in my opinion. Scope options clear up to 6x with that kind of damage...

With that said, as I expressed previously way back in this thread (I think it was this thread...), I don't mind the other classes getting this weapon under various stipulations. The most important thing, in my opinion, are the Sensor Darts...which should not be granted to any other class other than the Infiltrator.

Give every class their own unique form of ammunition.

I'm sorry, which games have you played where guns need to aim at the bottom most mil dot on a scope from 50 meters? Seriously, it's not even an issue of compensating for the drop, its the fact that it's so much drop that you aren't even aiming close to the target when you fire. Sure, in a game where you can shoot people 500+ meters away, it's not crazy to compensate that much, but at 50 yards they can see you, shoot back, and kill you quite easily.

This is why I think it's ridiculous that people are actually trying to gauge real gameplay on this thing based on VR. With twitch, moving targets, being hit, etc. the idea that you're somehow going to wreck with this thing is silly. Within its optimal range, 30 meters, you will need to basically be shooting a guy who has no clue you're there... and under those circumstances, it's no different than running 20 meters closer and shoot/stabbing him.

To your point about other classes. I REALLY hope heavies, medics, etc. equip this and try to snipe (again from 30 meters) it will make slaughtering them with an actual weapon that much easier.

Delta Force: Land Warrior.

The Barret 50.cal and pretty much all weapons had much more realistic drop, you had to aim several heads above the target depending upon your range. It wasn't much of an issue at long range because you didn't have to worry about people at varrying distances and the scope came per-equipped with a range finder, compensator, and magnification settings.

When you were in closer ranges, however, you set your scope on a middle ground based upon a specified distance and would judge the drop accordingly dependent upon where the target was.

That aside, this gun is silenced by default.

I can see the Light Assault getting a kick out of this...it's basically the bridge between the gap that separated us from them.

/yawn

one hit one kill? No! only against infils! Its NOTHING like a sniper rifle your reasoning is terrible! and just wrong!

Cant be bothered to read your ramblings so I'll just post this picture!

I don't blame a Light Assault for trying to say otherwise, I've always wanted the jet pack for my sniper rifles too.

you want jet packs for your sniper rifles?

Giving explosive bolts to all classes, especially infiltrators are bad idea to MAXes. MAX already can be 2SK by launchers, OHK by C4, and MAX is only class that is safe from being insta gibbed by Infiltrators. I dont like idea of cloacked infiltrator putting explosives belts in MAX back and killing him, since it is against purpouse of MAXes. I think SOE this idea of cloacked MAX killers is bad and why the hell one more tool to insta gib MAXes like Launchers, Decimators, AV greandes and C4 are not enough.

Besides it gimbs the purpouse of HA class, which is consider to be anti-MAX, anti Vehicle class, because of rocket launcher, AV greandes and C4. Giving every class, especially infiltrators Anti-MAX/Vehicle explosive weapon as a SECONDARY WEAPONS is serious gimping HA class.

SCENARIO: You use a MAX, you are spotted, everybody switch from main weapon to secondary (which should be weaker situational gun) crossbow and but explosive bolts in you. I mean- what the hell? EXPLOSIVE BELTS are totally broken and should be removed from game.SECONDARY anti MAX weapon?? Why then we have launchers and C4 then?

I am against explosive belts. Crossbows should be silent weapon. We have enough explosive weapons and rocket launchers and giving one of them to all classes is just imbalanced and bad move SOE.

My 2 certs.

PS. I think that new rifles are cool and game is fairy balanced right now (nor perfect, but really good). Crossbow with explosive belts can really make it go to hell.

Also if all classes will have anti-MAX explosive weapon as a secondary (really??), I want Flak Armor MAX same change for direct dmg as all rest infantry got.

it takes about 20 shots to kill a max with explosive bolts! Max units have NOTHING to worry about!

you could kill a max with your primary faster than the crossbow!

No, I was saying that many Infiltrators have dreamed about having jet packs so that we could get into the positions that Light Assaults can. It's why you'll see that damn grappling hook concept tossed around so often, which is essentially a watered down Light Assault ability. I was poking fun at the fact that you're a Light Assault saying that this isn't, basically, a mini-sniper rifle because I can understand a Light Assault wanting to desperately get their hands on a weapon that deals some pretty heavy damage, has a scope, and is silenced.

Truth be told, at this point...I'm shocked they just haven't tossed away stealth completely and merged the Infiltrator with the Light Assault.

This will only lead me to killing infiltrators that I spot while tanking about now. Usually I just let them be because they can't damage me and aren't worth my time.

...I'll never get to jump onto an enemy tank and snipe from their hull?

im a cqc player I have no interest in sniping people with the crossbow mainly because it would be TERRIBLE at it!

Haha I'd let you with no worries on a Vanguard or Prowler but I'm a bit mobile with my mag so you would get thrown off Plus by the looks of your avatar you would be on my side

[/quote]Yeah, because bullet drop is such a devastating feature that no-one could ever overcome. Last I checked, it also had a 6x scope...I was actually learning to compensate for that horrible bullet drop you're referring to...which took about two seconds because I'm actually accustom to more extreme bullet drop from games back in the day. It's normally why I do better when I have a suppressor on my bolt-actions; the watered down bullet drop in the game is what throws me off more than actual bullet drop. It's not difficult to compensate for. The velocity is pretty bad, I'll give you that. It has superb accuracy, if the enemy doesn't move before you complete the rechambering cycle...just click again and they're dead.

There's a difference between this and the shotgun, the latter not being effective outside an extremely limited range. As for the rocket launcher, I'm one of those individuals who believes that AV weapons should all one-hit-kill infantry without flak armor....but those weapons should be balanced around not being practical for such applications.

I would compare the Xbow to a combination between our close ranged bolt-action and semi-auto rifles. It has some pretty hefty bullet drop that you'll ultimately compensate for, and a very low bullet velocity...but it's silent and extremely accurate, which makes up for this in my opinion. Scope options clear up to 6x with that kind of damage...

With that said, as I expressed previously way back in this thread (I think it was this thread...), I don't mind the other classes getting this weapon under various stipulations. The most important thing, in my opinion, are the Sensor Darts...which should not be granted to any other class other than the Infiltrator.

Give every class their own unique form of ammunition.[/quote]
After playtesting again i realized that without the explosive bolt (which i tried immediaty XD) the drop for normal bolt is less severe, so yeah, not that bad. Kinda similar to the RL. . .(Explosive is still huge though XD) I completely missed the 6x scope O,O. I more meant slug but even still, mitigated by other issues. I'm kinda on the fence on the special ammo types. On one hand my medic would LOVE that explosive bolt as would light assault, engi. . .heck they all would XD, i honestly didnt like the detect bolt and wouldnt use it (as is at this time) but then. . .i see all the reasons not to, mainly monoclassing. I quite agree that spotting should be infs job, but i like all access to that explosive bolt >.< eh just have to see how they balance it and what they decide :/ who knows, maybe it will be OP or suck when it hits live.

I tried it with an enemy Lightning not too long ago, he flipped out and backed away...so I continued running after him and trying to jump on top while he frantically tried to kill me. It took him a while, but he finally managed to do so...and then I tossed him a tell saying I just waned to snipe from his hull.

No...response.

Yeah,

The drop with the explosive bolts is extreme, but the regular and detect bolts are fine. As for the specialty ammunition, trust me...I understand as an Infiltrator with absolutely no anti-armor capabilities. However, I know that Stalker Cloaking combined with these AV rounds would be fairly overpowered...it's something that everyone seems to be holding their tongue on because everyone gets the weapon, everyone wants the weapon, and they're fighting tooth and claw to keep it...even if that means ignoring the fact that Infiltrators get anti-armor capabilities they can use with Stalker Cloaking.

The fact remains that it's essentially a mini sniper rifle with an ammunition option that treads upon our, role which shouldn't be in the hands of other classes, and provide us with something we probably shouldn't have either. The weapon blurs the line between class roles.

Some people just take things to seriously don't they Infil has anti-armor capabilities, armor is only as strong as the squishy inside of it, the /tell command is your best friend and I'm always in need of ammo

Agree with the mixing of roles too and ffs stop with the freakin radar/sensor bolts we have enough of them as is.