Consumable Implants are GOOD for the game

Here are the complaints I'm seeing over and over:

Consumables are just a money grab.
This is "Pay to Win".
That this is unfair to new players.
Implants shouldn't hard counters.

Money Grab:
Last time I checked, SOE wasn't running a charity. They made the game to make money - it is their business model. Why "Consumables for Station Cash"? Because it represents a better monetization model than cosmetic development and a FAR better model that new weapon developement. It is in essence, an income stream that can be put on "autopilot" without the need to dump development dollars into it. That's a big step in making the game viable for the long term. In fact, it's probably critical for the survival of the game. They can't just depend on the good will of players like myself to carry subscriptions while the vast majority mooch the game for free.

The income from subscriptions doesn't meet the total cost of ownership in that model. Supplemental income MUST come from somewhere, and right now that is the "New Content/1 Time Sale" development tread mill that means putting too much money in to get too little return with too much time in between. Unfortunately, that is exactly what a lot of you are saying the "solution" is: "just make the implants just like guns and camo" - a one off sale that only kicks the can down the road and offers no continuous revenue stream from the game.

A development team with less scruples would have gone for the quick cash of not listening to the community at all and implementing a "cash only" advantage - I'm look at you WoT with your "Gold Ammo" and "Fire Suppression Kits". In fact, it appears from the direction the devs have gone with this, they appear to have taken a rather large hit in their expected daily revenue to instead spread the revenue out thinner over a long period. This may still pose an issue to the long term viability of the game. The game needs to generate X amount of dollars per month, and I suspect this compromise will undercut that.

So tell me, what can the devs do to generate income on an on-going basis, that requires only the initial development cost - not on-going development, and <BY YOUR CRITERIA> have no measurable effect on the game?

Pay to Win:
Everyone automatically assumes the worst: That the best implants, what has been proposed as "Tier 3", are going to be the ones for sale for SC. But that doesn't make any sense. It'd be far more lucrative to allow players to purchase the Tier 1 Implants that they like the best (instead of relying on random drops) at a very low cost - 15~25 SC rather than trying to sell high-end implants at a higher cost. The reason is that this works on a more fair basis with non-paying players, paying players are paying for the luxury of choice, it generates a much higher volume of transactions, and most importantly it can act as a low cost "first purchase" for players who a generally reluctant to pay for anything a F2P game. Once you get someone to make that first transaction, there is a huge jump in the likelihood that they'll make another. The devs seemed to have bent over backwards to try and find a compromise that gives them a revenue stream and allows free-players to still get the benefits. As with everything else in this game it boils down to how fast you want it, not whether you have it or don't. And that, no matter what anyone says, is NOT "Pay to Win".

New Player Experience:
New players already have a LOT more to worry about than implants. What's a BR50 going to have that a BR1 won't have? EVERYTHING. I don't see any hand-wringing over that. No one frets over the fact that I'm going to have a better scope, better aim, stronger ammo, better protection, and healing abilities and a BR1 is not going to have ANY of that. Where is the indignant outrage? I may have even gotten all of those thing FASTER by paying weapons with cash, freeing up my certs to be used for direct power upgrades. I remember a lot of dire predictions, much like those about the implants now, over this subject before the game was released in beta...but now where are they? That "problem" still exists, yet no one seems to care.

I'm going to go ahead and make the bold prediction that it will be the same for Consumable Implants. People will weep and wail, but in the end it won't be any different than it was before. New players will get experience and implants by doing exactly what they are doing now: following the crowd.

Hard Counters:
Why not? If I'm "hard countering" one thing, then I'm vulnerable to everything else. Here's some insight - my main class is Heavy Assault. Do you want to know what I absolutely WON'T be equipping on that class? Clear Vision or EMP Shields. Why? Because there are so many other more useful implants to equip, namely Battle Hardened, Quick Use, and Ammo - the three implants I will get the absolute most use out of with my Heavy. It's just not worth it for the occasional flash-bang or EMP to burn an implant on them.

Do you know what class I WILL use Clear Vision on? My infiltrator. Why? Because I use flash-bangs on him and more times than I like to admit, I end up flashing myself. See, people are only thinking of these in a defensive manner, but I instantly saw the offensive potential of these implants to allow for closing the distance more quickly and engaging more targets using the their benefit. How about throwing it right down at your feet ninja style to escape. That becomes possible when you have the counter implant equipped yourself.

And every ones nail biting fear of someone countering their tactic with an implant can be overcome with one little trick: look to see who isn't affected before rushing in. If someone turns to you when you peek in the room, then don't go in there. Easy as pie. It just means being a little more tactical, and if I remember correctly there have been a lot of calls for the game to be more tactical.

D-Gen's Soapbox:
Finally, I just want to say this: I am one of the few people who actually supports this game with a monthly membership. That said, I'm not ever going to spend SC on implants. The only time I've purchased weapons is during the Christmas sale when they were super cheap, but otherwise, I spend all of my money on cosmetics as a rule. So I'm in the same boat as all F2P players who don't spend anything at all. I am absolutely not worried about consumable implants - in fact they are long over due. I, unlike most players on these forums, understand that SOE needs to not just make money off of this game, they need to make A PROFIT so that I can continue to enjoy this game for years to come. Therefore I welcome their efforts to monetize the game, and I applaud their efforts to strike a balance between making a profit and providing a fair playing field for all players. I can think of plenty of companies that would not have given this a second thought. They have proven over and over again that they value us as players, and it's high time we valued them as developers.

Spot on, only bit of sense I've seen on the forums regarding this. People like to think that SOE are the worst company in the world and want to shaft their customers though... But they don't mind playing the game day in day out for free.

While I might have concerns about some of the individual implants, the system they've proposed for acquiring them is far, far better than the first model.

I think it needs some finessing, but it is definitely going in the right direction.

For example, I'd not do implant-granting randomly but instead tie it to the directives system. I'd also grant one each time someone levelled up, and for people who are already BR100 I'd grant one at a fixed xp-gain-rate. Possibly to the ribbon-awards system as well.

I wouldn't tie it to the mission system, or people will scream at any commander who sets difficult missions.

I agree that IF SOE does this intelligently, P2W should not be an issue. I've posted this list in numerous other threads, but I'll put it here too.

1. Classify SC purchasable (and possibly even cert purchased) implants separately from those earned through "drops" or earned through rewards. Purchased implants can be classified as "Supply ~"
2. The highest tier of implants cannot be purchased; only crafted, awarded through events, or as super-rare drops (new meaning to farming in Planetside, lol)
3. Make Supply implants unable to be deconstructed for materials
4. Tier one implants should give the highest % of value benefit.

That would solve BOTH P2W and New Player Loses, for the most part. People could buy as many Tier 2 implants as they want, but could never get Tier 3 that way, which would be the strongest in total effect. And if Tier 1 implants granted the highest % of total effect value, and assuming Tier 1 implants are about as easy to get as service ribbons, new players can easily remain competitive.

EX: Clear Vision
Tier 1 reduces Conc and Flashbang effects/duration by 50%
Tier 2 reduces the effects/duration by 75%
Tier 3 reduces effects/duration by 95%

or Thermal Reduction (assuming the default full reveal distance is approx. 60m for infantry and 150m for vehicles)
Tier 1 reduces your visibility on Thermal / IR scopes to 35m for infantry and 80m for vehicles
Tier 2 reduces your visibility to 24m for infantry and 60m for vehicles
Tier 3 reduces your visibility to 16m for infantry and 45m for vehicles

I don't feel like they'll really have a significant impact on the game one way or the other, but it's something new, I guess. I'll just throw smedbux at a nice looking gun every so often while I wait for resource system and global lattice to make it into the game. The rest isn't really significant in comparison.

I'm very happy though, that they've made the implants simple quality of life improvements for those that use them rather than outright upgrades for basic functions.

the "moochers" are kind of what makes this game possible at the moment, piss them off because of an imbalance (preceived or not) and they will jump ship leaving the servers empty.

make implants permanent and operate on a stamina/power meter, sell a disposable battery that gives the user a 25% increase in this meter so they only have a slight edge, but more skilled f2p players still feel like they can do something about it. the implant still functions the same, but someone can pay to have the toggle of it last a little longer before needing to recharge.

there are far more creative ways then just straight up making a money/cert sink, hell some f2p games get along just fine with cosmetics because people want to play the game and its fun! (looking at you LoL)

this depends on how they balance the free to play side of the system, if the drops are so random and rare they are annoying, and the cert cost is nothing but an investment you pretty much never make back when spent, people arent going to be happy, the "moochers" will leave and the servers will die. no money will be made.

it wont be the same, when a new player grinds out a weapon right now they get to keep it, they have stepped up to that level and stay there. the implant is just going to shrivel up and fall off after X hours and make people unhappy. With the current proposed implants there are a lot of advantages that will likely even outweigh the default implant bonus, and make things even worse for new players.

as you say new players already have a lot to worry about, now you are throwing even more onto that pile in such a way that doesn't mesh with the current structure of the game. you are adding more confusing things for newer players to spend certs or money on to feel competitive, and its just going to push more new players away IMO.

so your main is HA, a few maxes equips clear vision and now you cant conc OR flash them out of the room him and his buddies have been holding for the last 5 hours for ***** and giggles. all you can do is slam into the meat grinder to no effect. yeah that sound stellar

so your not even going to give into this "auto pilot money stream" you talk about, and you have a membership that will make the likely cert cost meaningless or less annoying then it will be for anyone trying the game or not willing to pony up every month on Que. you spend your money on the COSMETICS because you like the game, that's how it should be.

just look at LoL you dont rent anything game changing, you get to keep it. they pump out limited addition cosmetic to entice buyers instead of throwing together a money treadmill.


in the end, its truly all speculation, but that has a lot to do with how poorly this has been laid out and presented to players, all we can do is expect the worse, because that's what it looks like.

They sell cosmetics for cash. And they even use player made cosmetic models for labor free income.

Almost everything costing Station Cash should be permanent. Weapons, and Cosmetics. That is about all that should be on the list. Boosts are alright, they represent a set time increase of Certs, which are then usable to purchase in game items (weapons/certifications).

Implants being consumable is a bad idea. The stated list of Implants is going to completely muck up balance and counters, as well as devalue certain classes.

SOE, put in the time and make something to sell in game. Things that are permanent additions to a players account. More guns, more vehicles-cosmetics even.

Ill not spend any money on implants if they are implemented in game- Im sure a significant number of other players would not either.

Depends on how they price them IMO. If basic implants went for 5 SC each, a lot of us would finally have the opportunity to blow that spare 20 SC that's been sitting in our pockets for the past year. If they make them 100 SC or up, then I doubt they would be very appealing targets for spending SC.

And this is why there is currently a lot of backlash, SOE is very unclear with how this system is going to be implemented, so all we can do is expect the worst.

Agree on almost all points, except I think making them a consumable is a mistake and just making them a straight up purchase in either certs or SC is fine.

I also have serious misgivings about making them a loot item, since if they become a drop item from kills, that is going to have the unintended consequence of reinforcing kill farming.

Honestly, my concerns on this was their old acquisition system. Some people just want to pay for crap, rather than spend the frankly insultingly short amount of time necessary to get things... Considering that Higby already said something at one point about the cost being trivial as you could buy them in bulk for almost nothing, I doubt that they are going to be such, that you have to spend 1,000 hours to get a bloody implant IMG.

So much of the backlash at this point is hyperbolic nonsense, that is just going to continue to degrade the term p2w (As the PS2 community seems determined to do on a good day) to the point it becomes effectively meaningless. Which is something I personally find rather funny: people will keep this up, claiming every cent taken from them is torn out of their flesh by the whips of the SOE Accounting department, and that avoiding a conc grenade will mean the difference between taking a continent and having their whole faction wiped out by genocide. The more extreme this becomes and the more frankly meaningless costs that people call P2W, the more that term will be worn down until it's use is so common and easily dismissed that when real cases of it pop up, no one will pay attention, because it's just not popular to use a term that is thrown at everything under the sun. I've already seen that happen with the sect of the community who will support practically everything done by SOE, regardless of what it is. It'll happen to everyone else given time... So actually, I take it back: By all means say that 20 cert implants are P2W and an affront. Label 20 cert implants, the same as power-ups in games that charge you $400 for those power-ups that can only be gotten by cash purchases. Those are like, absolutely the same category. Keep it up, so that in a little bit of time, dismissing you can bring an abundance of likes, my L/P ratio isn't high enough yet.

I worry more about what the implants do as opposed to how we obtain them.

I fear they will be stupid OP abilities like Xray Vision, super speed, amazing recoil reduction, lolwut regen rages, better Health pools and crap like that.

This, totally. The implant gain mechanic I think is right. The implants themselves... eek!

They've already got a lot of them posted. Most of them are within reason.

Where the list at? I would like to see it.

https://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/index.php?threads/april-tentative-implants.169730/

Scroll down a bit.

Yeah the one that ignores the radar will be used alot. Im sure the one that auto detects will be used alot..

Some of them sound reasonable, others sound like they will be rather OP. The ignoring conc nades and crap...yeah that will be annoying yet useful. That implant is a self serving one, I will like it and hate it equally, just as I do with conc nades now.

Yeah, it makes sense to sell the low level ones, and leave the high level ones to chance.

I don't think I've seen another game do it differently... though I have not been around much.

It's perfectly reasonable, and SoE has been working on their track record, so I have confidence that this will work.

in regards to shedding free players: do you remember what happened to planetside 1 when they took the free to play reserves out?

What are the implants going to do? Is there a list somewhere?

Edit nvm:

http://planetside.wikia.com/wiki/Implants

I'm not really a fan of the idea of awareness, I guess sensor shield might counter that, but if sensor shield becomes kind of a must-have for a stealthy LA or infil loadout, that'll be kind of lame.