[Construction] Huge problem with defensive role

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by karlooo, Feb 14, 2020.

  1. karlooo

    What I hate about building defensive bases is that all it does is slow down the enemy, it never defends.
    You got just 1 useful gun (AT turret) which is bad but the rest is even worse, and a crap load of high HP structures....This is the problem.
    With all those structures you can make the enemies shoot at it for a very long duration and possibly hold off 20 players.
    I might as well not even design the base and just place structures everywhere lol. It will do the same job - it will slow down the enemy advance.

    With 1 turret you can defend pretty much nothing, it will only deal some damage and the enemy will later find a way to shoot some tiny part sticking out without the AV gun being able to fire back.
    Also the extremely unreliable AI module makes it so much harder to use this weapon (sometimes it shoots back, sometimes it does nothing, sometimes it shoots and hits nothing! I once checked and noticed my AV tower is shooting 10 meters above the target constantly)
    The other turrets do nothing and just act like a distraction, which is again the whole point of the player made bases currently.


    Construction needs to receive either the shields back on the walls or keep the unshielded walls and add more weapon options, which would be much more exiting.

    The construction turrets shouldn't be as weak as they are. Yeah sure these current ones are automated so they shouldn't deal brutal damage, but if construction receives new manually controlled guns it needs to be dangerous.
    Not like the current AV tower where I shoot at the enemy a couple of times and all he does is hide behind cover and repair, like as I mentioned in my other topic I could have bought 5 MBT's during all that time of building and defend much more effectively and also attack, which the tower cannot do because it's immobile.
    • Up x 1
  2. RiP0k

    I agree, my proposal to make the structures and bunker invulnerable while they are under the action of the Structure Shield Module, and to make sure that all the turret fire in response to the attack 100% dressing, even if the opponent shoots from hiding, it would be honest.
    • Up x 1
  3. karlooo

    If I was in charge of updating construction I would start off with this simple change to it:
    -Once the Silo gets destroyed it will explode, blowing up all structures in the Silo radius (no damage/knock-back to players, only structures), something like the OS does currently.

    This will help solve many big issues with construction.
    It will make attacking bases more straightforward. You pen the defenses, penetrate the core and it explodes like as if it's holding some nuclear energy, and then the opposing team takes out the infantry there, instead of like shooting all structures 100 times after Silo and spawn got taken out.
    Secondly it will solve the abuse of players placing only a Silo + OS at a big distance from each other making it incredibly hard to down, and also I would nerf the Silo HP.


    With this type of extreme weak spot construction can receive many enhancements. Like new stronger guns, more guns, stronger repair module, maybe shield module original design.
    In the end this will also reward players for designing the base.
    • Up x 1
  4. csvfr

    This is intentional. ~2 years ago construction was altered from building hives (assisting faction victory) to plain construction allowing to assist nearby battles by slowing down enemies, providing a stronghold, OS/flail nuking, etc. Builders no longer have an incentive to build hard-2-penetrate bases, in fact their capabilities to do so was nerfed through changes such as destructible walls, crossable skyshields, and weaker turrets. It takes no more than a single Liberator for example, to cross the skyhield, hover above the turrets, and take them out one after the other with the belly gun. What I'd like to see is automated turrets that aren't as plain stupid as they are now. An AV turret should obviously fire upon infantry or air if possible and there is no vehicles in range. Similar for the other turrets.
  5. karlooo

    I'll just add in some in-game example for a better understating of my point of view:
    (Not the best one)
    So lets say I built a base here to defend the NS Material Storage road.
    [IMG]

    [IMG]

    The only weapons that can attack at that range are cannons, long range rocket launchers and the weak Archer Rifle.
    The AV Tower deals some damage but once the enemies notice it, it will get destroyed, 2 tanks is enough to take this tower down....Now I don't have anything to defend with lol.
    2 tanks completely disarmed me.

    My base design allows for a vehicle terminal to fit inside on purpose (I'll show design below) because I need the MAX unit. That's the only unit I can use to deal some damage from my base.

    So basically I take out the MAX, from the top of the Infantry Tower I start shooting like a maniac and same story - once the enemy notices some firepower coming from the Tower, they simply just shoot it down, it's not hard and once the tower falls I can't connect it back, I would have to completely reconstruct my base if so and I lost the only good firing position. So basically it's over, I lost...Very quickly, in this case all it took was 2 structures and the rest is just for enemy tanks to get free xp from.

    Allies will not spawn here because why would they stay there with their under-powered AT guns?
    _________________

    In conclusion I had to pull out a 450 cost unit just to be able to deal some damage from my defensive position.
    The question is why did I waste 30 minutes building and resupplying if I had to pull out a 450 cost unit just to be able to shoot at enemies from there and deal some damage?
    During all that building time I could have gotten 5, 450 cost units and used them directly in the objective.
    Or I could have just went regular infantry and played the game.

    The purpose of construction is very unclear. Currently the only viable strat is the Router base which requires the player to create a hidden base with minimum amounts of structures but what about the rest?


    ___________________________________________________


    So this is the base design I use and will prob never change it.
    Connecting the 'Infantry Tower' with a wall extends the base width, making it possible to place everything inside.
    The infantry tower is not only a good firing position but also provides cover for the Anti-Infantry Tower, which defends the only entrance, the top of the 'Sunderer Garage' from light assault attacks and also the Vehicle Terminal from infils.
    The height of the 'Sunderer Garage' provides better cover for the Anti-Vehicle Tower than a wall would because it's taller
    (Sunderer Garage is used to store the spawn and essential modules together with a 'Reinforcements Module' and the 'Pain Spire')

    [IMG]

    The 'Pillbox' extends the back side to the width as the front is. This structures also provides cover for the vehicle gate because without it there would be no firing positions to defend the back.

    Procedure in building:
    -Infantry tower, then connect the wall with it (Front horizontal on the image), Silo, Sunderer Garage horizonal to the front wall and closest to the Silo so the vertical wall can nicely fit....then you can continue however you want. If you want to fit 'Vehicle Term' inside you need to give it priority before placing modules and AA tower.

    Note:
    -The 'Infantry Tower' is large and weak. It needs 'Blast Walls' around it to soak some damage.
  6. PlanetBound

    Back when we had the Hive, there were bases that lasted until the continent was locked. There's no great advantage to having a fully built base now so you won't get the people you need to defend and maintain the base. If we got the Hive back, you would be struggling to keep enough Cortium in the Silo from all the help you would be getting.
    • Up x 1
  7. karlooo

    You could have just locked your Silo. Currently it's not possible because some dev had a creative idea no one understands.
    I would say that now we have a much bigger lack of Cortium in the Silo than we had before.

    Firstly the Construction player is forced to purchase the Orbital Strike which is the largest drainer.
    Also currently you don't build based on where the most Cortium is at. You build it based on the best defensive and offensive location for the OS if you want to be most effective.
    As the example above at NS Material Storage, to get resources I always had to redeploy back to Warpgate and drive back 2km. That's the best way I could get most resources from.
    • Up x 1
  8. Shadowdev

    They totally screwed up the bases, they're almost worthless now.
    • Up x 2
  9. Liewec123

    this is my idea exactly, i'd also even dabble with the idea of giving the invulnerability to turrets, though that could turn out to be OP.
    currently when the tanks roll up, the turrets are gone in 2 seconds flat, and then they just nuke down the structures one by one.

    on the flip side i'd nerf OS by making OS relay waaaaay less tanky, and also disable OS from being used on lattice bases.

    construction should be used for things like setting up road blocks and obstacles to halt an enemy zerg.
    instead all it is currently used for is by A-hole OS farmers, mindlessly nuking allies and enemies alike to get some cheap Xp.
  10. karlooo

    Speaking of holes that's something the devs talked about in the past before the 'Construction reconstructed' update. They said they disliked the idea of players building impenetrable forts in ditches, but for whatever reason they nerfed the defenses so hard that the best location you can build at is in a ditch lol...

    I don't understand, like did they not think it through or do they just not want to balance construction and purposefully made it an under-powered overpriced money grab?
    The ditch base problem is definitely easy to fix. I don't understand why the devs rushed out that trash update.
  11. Liewec123

    yeah i remember the live stream XD
    its almost as if the devs are clueless! (shock horror)

    they said they wanted construction to play a more important role and not just be hidden in ditches,
    while their way to try to make that happen is to nerf the fortifications so any base that isn't in a ditch is easy to kill...
    we need invulnerable walls and structures back!
  12. iller

    I always wonder why we can unlock TWO anti-vehicle turrets, but can't actually place both of them...

    ...It's not like the super Short one is actually a universal threat. Even with the best placement, it's only gonna cover a 120º angle that's broken up by TONS of Trees and rocks and crap for lightning to peek-and-shoot from behind as well. It would also force you to give up a Flail placement because we only get 2 AI modules o_O
  13. Fisheyed

    There's cortium deposits south of palisade and zurvan ampstation, even south of your base. You should never be resupplying cortium from the warpgate. Especially if you have a light vehicle terminal. That is several minutes wasted on driving from the warpgate.

    That is a very well drawn blueprint.

    Construction isn't designed for solo play. - Imagine if you had 2 AV towers instead of only one.
    You've effectively doubled your dps and instead of needing to spend 450 nanites on a tank, you could sit back as an engineer repairing or use a rocket launcher. You're handicapping yourself playing solo.

    Your base design isn't good for fighting enemies. It is effective at stopping infantry from getting in.
    (Assuming there isn't a friendly base to the south, covering the flank)

    Consider different designs based on your threats.
    Unless there's a sunderer outside the front - how many infantry units is the front wall actually stopping?
    Why would infantry be assaulting your base?

    Designs which your teammates can use.
    Instead of a wall at the front, use a vehicle gate. Create a space for tanks to duck in and out off. For cover and repair.
    As a friendly tank, I can only use the south wall for cover - assuming the enemy tanks are not flanking it. I'm actually going to ignore your base and look for better cover on the flank using the rocks / terrain.

    As a solo builder, I can only place 3 walls. I would get rid of the defences on the west. If infantry get west, the best they are going to kill are repair and ai modules. The threat here is armor from the east and planes killing friendly armor.
    I would also place the modules inside the sunderer garrage or / and pillbox.
    I would double up on walls, so if one falls, the tanks can retreat, and I can place another one.

    [IMG]

    Here the design is to assist my friendly armor, provide them cover from threats so that they could win the armor fight and control the road. I'm also giving them a greater advantage than the terrain, which they will use.
    Whereas the previous design is worse at protecting armor than the terrain. So it will not be used. There is only 1 exit at the rear. A chokepoint. If I run there for safety, i'm going to become trapped there.


    As for what you were doing. Tanks are going to do more damage at long range than infantry. The engineers will repair their tanks faster than your base structures. So sitting in a max at the top of the tower, drawing aggro from the tanks who then look at what is damaging them and shoot you back. - With more damage, more accuracy and more effective health - you are literally building your own grave.

    Try build with a second person, and you will see a huge difference in your bases' output.
    - The "useless" turrets that 1 tank blew up now beat the tank.
    - You have double the nanite pool.
    - You can now use a harasser, tank + repair sunderer, valkyrie and liberator when defending your base.
    - You can build in half the time.
    - You have more walls
    - You can have 1-2 engineers repairing structures under fire.
    - You can have 2 silos and have an auxillary base.

    You don't need to make a perfect base that takes 30 minutes to build. Once the fight moves up to howling pass after 15 minutes, you should be building a new base to assist at howling pass - which you can't do if you spend 30 minutes building / getting cortium.
  14. Riekopo

    I have been playing again after being gone for years. I agree with the posts here. Bases don't seem very useful.

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