[Suggestion] Compressing the skill gap on PS2 (Wrel video)

First off I really like Wrel's points. Wrel should be a game designer. Seriously.

As an idea for compressing the skill gap imho there should no longer be 100% faction specific weapons. Many weapons should be put in a common pool. From the Harasser cheese weapons to Heavy LMGs.

At present the NC is a gimped faction. The LMG default for new players is BAD for new players. And NC Harasser weapons are cheeseLESS. When you take into account that the Reaver is just a fat hitbox cow in the sky. It is no wonder NC has a high blue on blue murder rate. Young NC players frustrated they can't kill anything, kill blue.

It has nothing to do with telling a kid "get good" when he just got Harasser cheesed for the upTeen time. Instead the kid will simply switch factions and join a zergfit like GOON. For those who diss GOON understand all those socalled scrub players are swimming in certs. Thanks to fighting with easier weapons in a big outfit that can push its way to a win. What does that mean? They get to cert sink faster to cheese it up. While that NC "scub" is stuck with a SAW.

there clearly isnt enough, or atleast a meaningful way to have 1v1s in PS2.

We need this to show those big bad GOONs, and easy mode players whos boss.

Young NC players frustrated they can't kill anything, kill blue.
Young NC players frustrated they can't kill anything, kill blue.
Young NC players frustrated they can't kill anything, kill blue.


HAHAHHAHHAHAHAHHHAHHAHHAHHHHAHAAAAA

pretty sure thats just you

Every forum baddy like you I have always had an open 1v1 invitation.

And if you don't have a PS4 invite a friend who you think is good to 1v1 me. Simple. Don't just post big on forum. Thats easy.

Daybreak gave him a job, didn't they?
Wrel is extremely well spoken. For the most part we see eye to eye and I'm big enough to admit that any disagreement is likely due to my own biases.

It's not so much that all NC weapons are underpowered as NC starter weapons are unsuited to beginners. The gauss SAW is a good example. It is a difficult to control weapon that dictates an unforgiving playstyle most beginners dislike.
I'm not qualified to speak on the harasser issue.

This is a game. There are weapons that are far easier to use for new players that should be default available to all factions. If you are good in the game, what would be your worry? To me it would make for better fights and less abandoning of NC faction.

NC on PS4 is good at attracting new players. Blue uniform, NC look like gi joe soldiers. I get why kids first start as NC. But the NC is horrible at player retention so its just a steady stream of newbies who often go tk nuts because the SAW is very bad for newbies.

A common pool is a good workaround. Maybe even a fast/simple/cheap fix for DBG, that requires no weapon design or test phase.

Skill compression would kill this game. The people who have poorer weeks of their time into this to gain skill and knowledge would not take kindly to a mechanics shift that essentially allowed new players to come in on par.

What we need to do is lower the skill floor to make it easier for people to ente the game. One such step would be replacing the Gauss SAW as the NC's starting LMG, because despite it being one of the best LMG's in the game, it is too difficult for new (and bad players) to use properly. The GD-22S would be an excellent candidate.

Reaves have plenty merits of their own, but I'm sure a passing Skyknight could make that case better than I. That said, I do believe that the Scythe is commonly considered the top tier ESF. Someone ease correct me if I'm wrong.

The Enforcer is a brilliant top gun. It takes some time to get accustomed to the drop, but anyone who does makes for quite a threat. I recently logged some time with the Mjolnir, and completely reversed my opinion of it. I assumed it was bad because no one using it was ever accurate enough to threaten me. As it turns out, if you let it settle for a moment every 4-5 shots, the CoF shrinks back down rather quickly.

NC is probably the worst offender in the hight of the skill floor, but that doesn't make them gimped. All in all, NC had access to some of the high skill ceilings in the game, and while the entrance fee for the faction is somewhat higher, once someone becomes competent with the NC's arsenal, they are an extremely dangerous player. I say this as a person who has logged days both fighting against and playing as NC.

Faction specific weapons provide variety, and are part of the reason people still play this. If you remove the asymmetric style of PS2, you will lose players in the long run.

In short what we need is not skill compression, but rather an expansion of the skill gap. The thing that drives people away is how high the skill floor is, not the hight of the skill ceiling. We need to find ways to lower that skill floor without dragging down the skill ceiling with it, as that would cause the departure of the veteran community. Lowering the skill floor allows players to come in, be somewhat successful, and eventually work their way up to the ceiling, all without invalidating the time and effort to put in by the veteran players. The recent changes to new player equipment (several things will start out unlocked or maxed by default) is a good start to doing just that.

Also, what happened to all your moral outrage at the horrible bounty scam? Forums were much nicer when you rage quit.

I'd love to, but usually when we do point out the merits, our audience sticks their fingers in their ears and start chanting ''flying brick, flying brick, flying brick''. I've all but given up.

I'm not surprised. Especially considering our OP in this thread. The second best pilot I've ever scene was on the NC, so I know just how dangerous those "flying bricks" are when used properly.

Abandoning the NC faction?! Poor player retention?!

http://ps4us.ps2.fisu.pw/activity/?world=1000


On the only 2 ps4 servers, VS is the under-popped faction. In relation to TR and NC? Pretty severe. (At this time currently VS have 300 players while NC and TR have over 500) So where are you getting the idea that people are just abandoning NC?

I made both a TR and NC (Main is VS) and didn't feel a vast difference between Infil, LA, or engineer starter weapons on either factions. And in fact, I had an easier time as NC heavy than TR heavy.

NC seemed to have more recoil, but I was dropping players faster in 1v1/close range fights. Whereas TR I had next to no recoil and could focus more long range. It was the same while sniping. TR have a terrible starter sniper. It's quick rate of fire... but fairly weak compared to the other factions. NC has an amazing starter sniper. I actually felt bad for TR while I was testing it out.

I honestly don't think NC's TKing has anything to do with them having 'bad' weapons. It's highly more likely that it has to do with the fact that the faction is painted off as 'Murica or the Hero of Planetside. And it's because of this that you're going to see more kids joining NC for that very reason, which... kids will be kids. Of course this is only speculation, going off of 15+years of playing FPS games and seeing this very similar trend in anything with America/Hero Side vs Terrorists/Bad guys.

If the Mjolnir was any good it would be widely used on NC Harassers on PS4. Mjolnir is not in wide use. In fact, two things you will notice straight away playing NC on PS4. NC don't typically put Mjolnir on Harassers, and NC don't typically pull Harassers. Period.

Both TR and VS cheese on PS4 with harassers constantly, NC does not. Big clue that something is wrong there.

To say that a common weapons pool would take away from the game, yea YOUR GAME. But it would help NC player retention.

Also the SAW has nothing to do with being a good player or bad player. The SAW simply is a bad default weapon for a game where a lot of new players are going to spray CQC to take control points with a SAW weapon that is going to get them dead fast doing that.

I'm just going to repost what I just said, maybe the second time it will sink in:

"NC on PS4 is good at attracting new players. Blue uniform, NC look like gi joe soldiers. I get why kids first start as NC. But the NC is horrible at player retention so its just a steady stream of newbies who often go tk nuts because the SAW is very bad for newbies."

Dude, you should try to improve your gameplay.
Instead of constantly blaming your controller, your teammates, your opponents, your death screens, game's balance, Devs, DBG, the whole world outside...

Just because something is not widely used doesn't mean it is subpar. The Railjack, for example, is a brilliant sniper once someone learns it's quirks, but it isn't widely used. What you're using is called an appeal to popularity, and is a logical falacy, invalid in actual argumentation.

I had success engaging both Infantry and Armour with the Mjolnir. That is a proof of concept. It can be used effectivel if properly handled, and several Prowlers, Maggies, Sundies, and Harassers found that out the hard way. If you never let of the trigger, it's ****, but if you let the CoF settle every 5th shot or so, it's moderately accurate with high DPS.

Use your brain. People play this for the asymmetric fights. That is part of the fun of the game, not just for me, but for most players. If you remove that, Veterans will end up getting bored and will leave the game. Furthermore, additional common pool weapons doesn't lower the skill floor at all, so you'd still have the revolving door noobs lasting all of three hours. You're idea would turn this game into a ghost town, devoid of both veteran and new players.

And it does matter weather or not you're a good player with the SAW, which is exactly why it shouldn't be a starting weapon. A good SAW gunner is one of the most deadly HA's in the game even in CQC, but without that skill and knowledge, the SAW is too difficult to handle. That's why I said it should be replaced by the GD-22S as the starting LMG. The GD has a much lower skill floor, making it a better weapon for new players, whom typically have lower skill levels.

Now then, are you going to address my actual argument and points, or just nitpick the examples I used to illustrate them. If you've no interest in refuting my actual points, then I'll just assume you've conceded the matter.

I think You're exaggerating things if you think a single weapon is ruining the entirety of the New Conglomerate. While the SAW does require more practice to use effectively ( and by that I mean when you're good with it it's one of the best weapons in the game ) every other starter weapon the NC have is actually rather good. The Mercenary Carbine is a very accurate and enjoyable carbine, while the medic's Assault Rifle also packs a good punch while remaining easy to control, and then there's the bolt-action sniper rifle, exclusive to NC as a starter weapon, which most sniper players far prefer over the TR and NC's semi-auto rifles.

Anything is good for the appropriate scenario. The only reasons why mjolnir isn't widespread is because it's a CQ weapon on generally long range tanks that never want to get close, harassers use it for CQ AV but you don't see decent av harasser groups often.
Railjack is a slower, longer to refire sniper rifle (besides my quirks with how boring the weapon concept is) the gun is solid in much longer ranges, however it often does not shine because those situations do not show up and at closer ranges you just want a faster shot.

Don't hold your breath. Rational argument doesn't hold sway with this individual. I'm only trying it because I enjoy repeatedly ramming my head into a metaphorical brick wall. Such is the way of a Dark Souls fan.

When you think about it, it's a starter weapon you can use for one class and the only other option is a god damned shotgun. If you are not good with x when x is your only long range option then you are going to have a really bad time. Let's say, I make the gun absolute garbage, because the new nc player can't control the recoil for crap, so he goes shotgun making him practically useless for anything not cq and mediocre at cq, note that heavy is a VERY important class, any changes in it can change the entire game. It is the go to class for anti infantry and anti vehicle because of its sustained damage to both. No heavies means no durable lane holders, no long range anti vehicle, no max slayer, no med to long range ai pusher. You take him away and everything crumbles.

So when players do complain about the saw, it is with good reason.

I agree. My point with the Railjack is that it is by all accounts the best long-range sniper in the game due to its very slight drop and ridiculous velocity, and yet relatively few people (on console at least) use it, opting instead for the Longshot.

As for the Mjolnir, we were discussing harassers, so I figured the context was implied.

I am clueless about the console scene, but imagine a scenario where you need more range than the longshot csn provide, that's how often it's used. Me personally only find the very rare situation where I need to hold a snipe perch from 350 meters away, sniping other snipers. At least it can 1 shot an infil at any range....
I mean the trap is a cool gun, 7 shot kill body for a heavy, far shorter for headshots, its like a cool semi that can adapt to what range you need something dead, but I don't see that pulled often.