[Suggestion] Complete aircraft overhaul.

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Demigan, Jan 22, 2018.

  1. Silkensmooth

    Another tanker who cant handle that something in the game can kill his tank. People like these think that it would be better to overhaul the air game that next to no one participates in, instead of spending those resources on, oh i dunno, NEW CONTINENTS?!?!

    Air is fine. Its a great fun thing that doesnt affect the overall game in any meaningful way.

    Air doesnt decide which bases get taken or who wins an alert.

    2 skyguards with competent drivers can easily keep the sky clear against any air assault.

    Too boring to pull skyguard, no matter just get a couple of ranger sundies, and when the air shows up you chase them away.

    Almost all heavies carry lock ons that do lots of damage to air.

    Even light assaults get a rocket rifle that does significant damage to air. I shot down an injured lib today with 2 accurate volleys of the rocket rifle. Good damage on those things and they lock on with proximity.

    We need more continents, not a major change that would piss off far more people than it would please.
  2. KaletheQuick

    No. I made some prototypes, but there was a lot of other components to get working, not to mention MMOs are always complicated. I'm working on something simpler (That still expands my skillset in the direction of the combined arms flight game) now that should be simpler and more fun for more people.
    • Up x 1
  3. Prudentia

    it's gonna be interesting how Ace Combat 7 handles clouds. i suspect when that game releases we are gonna get a lot of posts about integrating a few ideas from there into the PS2 airgame.
  4. adamts01

    You just gave some great examples of why air isn't fine.

    • Up x 1
  5. Demigan

    This is so much bulpcrappery I had to reply to it early.

    Silken claims that I cant handle my tank being blown up. So that would mean my idea reduces airceaft AV power.

    Valkyrie: gains helicopter role with AV. Gains light gunship role with AV.
    Liberator: keeps current AV capabilities, has added bomber capability.
    Galaxy: gains carpet bombing ability, gains heavy gunship ability.
    ESF: The only vehicle that loses something, loses helicopter role to Valkyrie and has it replaced by fighter-bomber role.

    So we end up with the same "problem" we've seen a thousand times: any idea that touches the ESF's omniversal FU abilities is bad for the skyknights, and idea's for having to share their power with other aircraft, including A2A, sets off their allergic reactions. Namely lie, misread and mislead.

    PS, more continents is the worst idea right now. It adds almost nothing, it splits the playerbase even more and the game is much more helped by balanced game mechanics and more variety in capture, attack and defense mechanics.
    • Up x 1
  6. stalkish

    If i shoot a valk with 2 tank shells, its hurt bad and normally dies very soon after, before the change i could shoot one 3 times and watch as it flashes white and continues to plink me to death while, presumably, laughing.

    Extending your rep time =/= tanking damage
  7. Yessme

    the next - plz nerf air, i can`t fly and tank like other coz of Aircraft - thread?

    demigan, now i see you 2 years in that Lobby, allways with same thread, About -plz nerf air- coz i can`t tank, coz i can`t fly, coz i can`t Play inf.
    do you not get boring About every time the same ?
    this game don`t Need more nerfs,

    air is ok, giv them bombs, make it like real live.
    When the Air force comes there is nothing more.
    with napalm to burn a whole base out so that is not a single inf anymore.
    Cluster bombs to kill all vehicles in an area
    And all this with only 1 approach

    this is air force, not like 1 inf can kill an ESF.
  8. stalkish

    His suggestion would give aircraft more power against ground vehicles as long as you chose the correct craft / loadout.
    He even re-explained this 2 posts above.....

    Its like no1 reads around here.....
    You even suggest something he already suggested.......bombs.....

    requoted since you seem confused:
    • Up x 2
  9. Pikachu

    Isn't H1Z1 MMOFPS too? It has clouds and seemingly dynamic snow.

    Sorry for being redundant but I'm flying 8km up in the air in a golden sea of sunset clouds. :D
  10. adamts01

    But those clouds aren't interactive. Clouds in most FPS games don't take much of a performance toll at all, I know from gaming on a laptop for years. I'm all for clouds, but what we currently have in PS2 is clearly pushing it. I just don't think the game could handle it, and I'd take farther render distance than clouds any day.
  11. FractalCore

  12. frozen north

    So I figure I should probably mention this. While I definitely do agree that an overall rework to aircraft is certainly not a bad idea, its important to look at where the biggest over arching issues and trends currently exist. Obviously I cant speak to every players experience, but I can speak towards the experience on the connery server.

    On the Connery server, ESF's are the only aircraft used commonly by players who are not in platoons of at least twenty people. This is really crucial to remember, because it gives context to a lot of things. A major reason for ESF's getting heavy play time is that they allow for effective performance without needing to rely on the assistance of others.

    While I do think that ESF's are currently overly universalized, fixing that issue is anything but simple. As it stands, all aircraft in planetside 2 are subject to the same air to ground combat philosophy. This philosophy is that the distance to target, and amount of time exposed (able to spot an enemy and be spotted) determines both the amount of damage an aircraft can potentially do, as well as how much it can take from return fire. Remember, this only applies to air to ground, not air to air.

    So here's where the problem is. ESF's have to be able to adhere to this air to ground balance philosophy. However, they also need to fulfill the need for an individually reliable aircraft, and the need for air to air combat capability.

    Since attempting to change one area heavily means massive changes in power dynamics, forcing changes across the board (base AA, other air power, vehicle AA, infantry AA, etc).

    Because of this, I think the best way to deal with the over abundance of ESF's is to cut out their versatility, without changing their roles (at least not yet). The easiest way to remove the massive versatility of an ESF without gutting balance is to alter its flight performance to be heavily based upon its equipment set up, with a particular emphasis on the secondary slot weapons, and a lesser emphasis on the nose gun.

    As it stands, a given ESF will have the same speed, vertical thrust, acceleration, turning, air braking, drag, etc, regardless of its weapons load out. A really easy way to remove that hyper versatility is to make it such that air to ground favoring secondary weapons will cause a reduction in top speed, acceleration, turning, and vertical thrust, while also increasing drag. This makes an air to ground equipped ESF much less capable as an air to air platform, especially when facing one that's geared for air to air.
  13. strikearrow

    The main problem with ESFs is just as many have stated - too much versatility. If a lighting goes skyguard, it is virtually worthless for anything except AA. If an ESF goes lolpods and stock nosegun, it is still about 85% as strong A2A as an ESF running 2x afterburners and say a rotary nosegun. An ESF going A2G nosegun and 2x afterburners (PPA etc) is about 90% as strong A2A if they were to run a non-A2G nosegun. As for tomcats and coyotes, the coyotes are clearly better because they are dumbfire, which is 2-3x as powerful in a fight than anything with lock-on delay (1 reason strikers are so powerful compared to most AA rockets).

    The point is that when people on the ground run AA, they usually give up a lot of AV/AI power to the tune of 40% or more of that AV/AI power. Whereas an ESF does not have to surrender so much power to go A2G instead of A2A. It's simply unbalanced. This is why the Liberator needs to surrender much more A2A power and the ESF needs to surrender much more A2G power depending on loadout. Think an MBT running ranger vs an AV secondary MBT; the AV MBT has about 40% more AV power. An AV lighting has about 75% more AV power than a skyguard (of course an AP lightning and an AP MBT both have OHK power against an ESF so that's something, but actually reduces the value of a skyguard).

    Basically an A2A ESF needs to be about as effective A2G as a skyguard is effective at AV/AI and an A2G ESF needs to be the reverse. Either that or AA needs to be a lot more effective AV/AI than it is now. Either give all platforms more versatility or give ESFs, Libs and actually harassers (different issue) less.

    A good start would be to allow vehicles to change loadouts at vehicle terminals just like infantry can do at infantry terminals.
  14. SupaFlea

    I myself have lost count how many times a really skilled ESF pilot holds a dozen or players as hostages in the 1-12-24 base recaps. easily able to avoid kills shots by lock-ons and virtually unhittable with dumbfire.
    One thing i do miss though as PS1 Vet was the power of a Gal Drop. It used to be something to be a threat and the excitment of gal drop while in as part of a tactical squad was awesome also. Now though its nown as Redeployside because its often more tactically sound to redeploy and hotdrop on a base or near by base then to Gal drop. I honestly thing the Towers need to come back providing a hard spawn for a faction rather relying on Sundies all the time.
    Maybe add a Equipment terminal to Gals making them more useful although that would make many cliff top snipers able to change class but maybe a energy based system like an ammo counter that only give each gal a limited amount of class changes. I don't know probably all stupid ideas.
    • Up x 1
  15. Nogrim313

    im not talking dynamic clouds or weather. just purely static visual obscuring clouds. sure its not realism but the purpose of them would be to create visual cover for the bases AND the aircraft.

    imagine something like the crater having a thick fog layer just at the top of the rim. aircraft above could not see in to the crater, and Air defense inside could not see out. obviously spotting would still function through them as there is no actual obstruction making things like the AA radars etc much more useful.

    while this does make aircraft a lot more survivable it also makes it a lot harder for libs to spam from extreme height and ESFs to dominate a ground fight by staying up high.

    if done well this would create that A2A space pilots have been wanting since launch.

    id be happy with functional clouds over pretty looking clouds performance wise for sure.
    • Up x 1
  16. adamts01

    This is completely false. The MAIN problem with ESFs is the performance gap, which basically rules them out as an option for 90% of players. Versatility isn't much of a problem anymore as wing mounts have become much more specific over the past year. Shooting an HA with flak armor with LOLpods takes a whole salvo, and the loiter time above a tank to get a kill with that weapon is also asking for an AP shell to the face. Hornets require a direct hit on infantry. AI guns are near-worthless against aircraft, even the Banshee got a serious nerf. You had a strong point if we're talking 1 year ago, but not today.

    That's true, but don't blame the ESF for that, blame inadequate AA. If one of those infantry pulled a single Striker then it's over for that ESF. Lock-ons have always been a broken mechanic, as they rarely work as a defensive launcher. But the scrubs love their lock-on mechanic, no matter how terrible it is for them.

    This won't work as you think it will. All it does is give air the ability to peak and poke at relatively immobile ground units. The problem is solved with accuracy, damage falloff, and max range modifications.

    Let ESF noseguns have half accuracy and taper to zero damage at 400m. This lowers the dps of pros, raises the dps of noobs, forces ESFs to get close to libs to fight, and keeps gank squads from nose-gunning a tank to death from 600m.

    The Dalton and Shredder would also need their long range plinking ability to be removed. 4 Shredder Libs at the flight ceiling are impossible to kill from the ground, but they can focus down tanks incredibly quickly.

    This in turn lets AA lose the ability/necessity to be able to hit aircraft from a hex away, which would let aircraft dogfight anywhere in the map with limited interference from ground, while having a limited impact on the ground unless they swooped down to deal damage, exposing themselves to ground fire.
    • Up x 2
  17. Pikachu

  18. Nogrim313

    clouds would possiblly allow for more occlusion culling (meaning less **** would actually need to be rendered if it is obscured by the clouds) which in turn may even increase performance in a lot of situations.
    • Up x 1
  19. adamts01

    That's absolutely true, similar to the Bio-Lab dome changes, and the low render range against other aircraft seriously hinders what they can do with air. But just think about how easy it would be for air to evade the ground if they could just boost up and be gone....
  20. CaptCran

    • Up x 1