[Suggestion] C4 should be removed and replaced with something else, MAX units should be nerfed

Can there be a different counter to vehicles and MAX units for regular infantry to use? Like for example a normal anti tank weapon?
The C4 is a very toxic weapon in this game, not fun to deal with and very absuable in "big" fights. I've actually seen C4 once make half of my team rage quit in a battle.

I know it's used to counter the MAX units and they are overpowered, but there should be something done with the Max's instead of adding a broken weapon.
Like are the devs not using their head? Of course a unit that is basically a heavily buffed infantry is not going to be fair to fight against.
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The MAX is pretty comparable to the Heavy from Team fortress 2.
The Heavy is a very balanced class, he is tough and has a big gun, but he is slow and the gun takes some time to prepare. Which the same could have been done with the MAX, like he's heavily armored up, of course he will be cumbersome and not as agile as just a regular infantry.

For some reason the devs think that giving the MAX long range weapons and anti tank weapons is a good idea. Why not? Because you're giving MAX's everything. Why would you take infantry over maxes if their guns can take on targets from long range, or if their guns can deal with air, tanks, more effectively than any infantry and also are very tanky.

The MAX unit is too tough. Like yeah sure make him stop some small arms damage but he should not be able to effectively stop 12.5 mm heavy machine guns or 20mm rounds and anti tank rounds when he has the ability picked, which should be removed.
Maybe that could be a good counter to the MAX, the engineer's mana turret will now be a heavy machine gun. So the engineer will become a good defensive unit that counters the MAX engage.

Or even self healing, why are they allowed to do that? In Team Fortress 2 without the medic, the Heavy couldn't engage or else he will be destroyed in some situations. He required a medic to heal him while he prepared his gun under fire.
The medic/Heavy combo is something like a MAX/Engineer combination, except engineer is not as impactful. Without the engineer or medic (I'm not a fan of the engineer healing, would rather want a medic) the MAX shouldn't be super effective, solo.
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And by nerfing the MAX, removing some of his guns, healing, and making him team reliant will balance this unit out, making him possibly even free, instead of 450 cost, and C4 won't be necessary.
So the MAX could be the breakthrough unit
The engineer defensive unit
Medic could heal the MAX. And have it's HP nerfed so the medic won't be spammed and only used if necessary.
The Heavy class should have his shield ability removed, so it also won't be spammed.
The light assault will have no more C4 and will be a flanker instead of a bird dropping bombs.
The infiltrator could counter the medic class.
In my opinion all grenades should be removed, because it's spammed.


I know these ideas are absolutely terrible, I came up with it off the top of my head. Maybe it could even be good, what do you know?
But why don't the Developers do this, working together in developing and improving the gameplay? Coming up with ideas is just fun. I don't understand what the devs are doing for multiple years.
Implants should all be scrapped and trashed. Like for example you run over someone and receive turbo in return....wtf is that? What does that have to do with anything?

So STOP with the implants and start working on the real gameplay to provide a fun, non-toxic experience for all players.

I view toxic as coming into a game and suddenly suggesting that every single mechanic (one by one) in the game be changed to suit one's personal opinion.

Well I find your non-constructive comment toxic.

But anyways, in my opinion the game completely unfinished. I don't want it my way, I'm just suggesting and saying what I believe is not enjoyable, what can be improved. That's what the forums is for, to discuss game issues.

You tell me, do you like C4 and MAX units the way they are?

The MAX is a situational tool. I very rarely run skillsuit for infantry fights, but when I do, I don't find them to be particularly OP except in specific situations, with commensurate counters. No problems for me. Have you even run one? The way you're phrasing the comparison to the TF heavy (a lobby shooter to boot, apples to oranges much?) saying the MAX should be less agile and cumbersome makes me think you've never used one, because they're slow as **** to move and turn compared to infantry, long reloads, long weapon raise time already. I consider MAX units to be little cert pinatas when I am running vehicles. If they don't get roadkilled by the harasser they're getting popped by an MBT with ease. For the (LOL) same nanite cost as an MBT.

Without Bursters and Ground AV capability the MAX would be pointless in my playstyle, but I'm not against anyone using a MAX in whatever way they see fit.

C4 is also fine. If someone lives to be within 5 feet of you to toss a brick or two on your person or vehicle, they earned the kill.

Most C4 deaths happen by doorways or to supremely unaware players. Nerf fatal funnels STAT.

Personally I would recommend watching some breaching tactics videos from RL teams if you're having trouble with interior fights and dying to C4.

In my opinion the max can be used in all situations. I recently tried only buying the MAX in every single fight.
I use double MRC3 Mercy on the TR max. The max takes nearly no damage from small arms so I take "Ordnance Armor", emergency repair.
Every time it goes successfully...Simply because this game is a death match, all I do is run forward and pick off enemies one by one with my very accurate guns while they stand no chance.
In your dreams the MAX is slow as ***. It has a fast escape, and shoots while moving at an optimal speed, no need to go faster. The reload is very quick, is 3 seconds a long time? You can even upgrade the gun to have 50% more ammo, that's a brutal upgrade.

How is the C4 fine if most deaths happen near doorways? How do you counter that? When a bunch of enemies barricade themselves inside a tiny structure, and each time multiple ppl breach they toss like 2 C4's and the whole army is gone...
Or when some light assault is flying 100 meters above the battle and dropping from there?

Because this is how it actually works as far as doorways. Windows, doors, and hallways are all called "fatal funnels" for a reason.

Ok....and?
What's the counter? Is it fun? What do you do?
Tanks can't get involved and clear the buildings, if their barricaded structure is in firing range it doesn't matter because HESH absolutely sucks.
You can't rush them most of the time. You can't light assault flank. You can't MAX crash. But It depends on how many enemies have the C4.

If he didnt have an opinion about it he wouldnt have posted about it. A bit like you. If you didnt have an opinion about it you wouldnt have posted, but you did have an opinion and you tried to make it clear. But rather than offer constructive feedback or anything you attack him personally, which is almost the definition of toxic.

Again: offering possible improvements, however good or bad they may be, is not toxic in itself. Its the way you put it that is toxic, and right now you clearly are.


On topic:
You say its about C4 but 90% of the post is about the MAX. I think c4 can remain in the game but with specializations to remove the jack-of-all-trades feature. For example make an AI c4 brick, an AV c4 brick, a timed c4 brick with more damage but it tells everyone its there, a DOT brick (say a thermite charge that burns for a while) etc.

Furthermore the infantry can use some resource costing utility weapons. AV/AI/AA grenade launchers, glue guns (to slow down infantry and vehicles, perhaps even reduce aircraft engine efficiency), LAW like rocketlaunchers, distortion fields etc.

As for MAX's, I would make them less extreme. Making an extreme both fun and balanced is an almost impossible task in a game. If it fulfills its job its almost ineviteably going to ruin its victims session and if it doesnt the payoff for buying and using it will rarely be enough to satisfy its user. So rather than slow extremely durable infantry/vehicle hybrids make them more like improved infantry. Their core could still be a tanky infantry dude (just not as tanky as now) but besides that they could have more specialist equipment for attack and defense. For example the old Charge but with a lower run velocity and longer up time. The NC MAX shield but with more surface area on the front so friendly infantry can hide behind it and push with them, only breaking out once they've passed the chokepoint, perhaps give this to all MAX's despite its NC nature as this kind of supportive teamplay protection should be the core of the MAX. Give them some other gadgets as well to accomplish their tasks, like a burst revive, overshields for themselves and nearby allies, providing AOE protection for themselves and friendlies etc.

As I said, find some breaching tactics videos from RL teams. These problems exist in places where you don't get to respawn, which magnifies them greatly. Some issues you are better off solving for yourself, or you'll never really understand what you were doing wrong and WHY it needed to change.

Cool story bro. His OP history is a litany of trying to turn this game into a blended match shooter, which it was never designed to be. Call me salty, but I'm sick of folks whining about challenges in life until we're playing in a bowl of homogenized pudding where nothing can ever stand out. Heaven forbid we take the challenges as they are and strengthen ourselves by learning to overcome them against odds.

That isn't to say there are no problems. We both know there are. But this recent defeatist attitude of "I don't like this, it's hard, you change it now" goes counter to the very game design of PlanetSide, and much like the CAI implementation, will literally kill off what's left of our funhouse.

Yeah about the title, I should have wrote it the other way around, starting with MAX but it's too late anyways.

Deviding The manually detonated explosives into AV and AI is a good idea. Timed C4 is cool too.
But in my opinion C4 should be removed (or at least keep the AV C4 idea) together with frag grenades because they become very toxic weapons when spammed.

About the MAX I'm not a fan of my idea that it should be slower. I believe it should be a normal free class with it's HP nerfed and resistances removed, but limited to not fulfill every role. In my eyes it should be a close range breakthrough/support unit. They should only be able to break through if they are supported by a medic pocket healing.
And anti-tank/air, and long range guns like MRC3 Mercy should be removed. Because why would anyone take infantry over the MAX if it can do everything, even attack enemies from range?

-> The shield is a beautiful thing the NC max has. I believe all faction MAX units should have that ability. You're idea is better than mine: Giving the MAX a wider shield, that's actually very interesting.

I also mentioned that the Heavy class 'shield' should be removed.
It's a spammed class, together with the medic for a reason. I do not like it how this class can do everything. And has a lazy ability which gives a shield by pressing a button.
Medic is in my opinion op too because of the guns it has together with it's extreme ability of reviving in seconds. A possible nerf to this class could be a nerf to its hp.

Kiddies play the game for 5 mins and think they have all the answers. The OP clearly has little time in a MAX and certainly has not played one on all sides.

MAX's have been severely nerfed from where they used to be. Max's are currently no good without engineer support, medic is only needed if Max is killed. OP should really learn that engineers currently repair and medics revive, prior to posting some nonsense about nerfing Max's.

Small arms fire take them out easily. Anyone who has run a Max is fully aware that 2 or more infantry will take them out. Even 1 if they know what they are doing. If 3-5 infantry the Max has no chance, unless they are all new players and do not know what to do.

As for c-4, since the beginning of the game, having c-4 dropped is a part of the game. Otherwise one or a few Sundy's is all that would be needed to take any base. With c-4 destroying Sundy's, there must be many and the location changes regularly. Other wise the fight would be coming from 1 sundy 90% of the time no change just one grind from one Sundy on one point of attack, How Boring.

Why don't you just go write your own game, or go play a different game. Some of us have been playing this game since the beginning. No need for taking out any of the players. Really take out Heavy and Medics. WTF will you have left? Why not just shut down the whole game.

OP must be trolling.

S.T.F.U and go away, is basically what you're saying.

Btw why are you defending this game like as if your life depends on it? It's dying slowly, you can even say it's dead, because it only has some players in the evening. If the game was good then there would be more players, that's the truth.

Actually while I dont agree with many of his propositions, he is pointing out the pain points of the game. PS2 is far from a balanced and fair game where the challenge is equal for everyone. Take Harassers, the skill and risks of piloting one are far lower than for MBT's, Sunderers and Lightnings to counter them. This is one of the reasons why he and others want the Harasser to take one less hit before death. This would increase the burden for the Harasser team and decrease it for the opposing side making it a more even fight.

Are you really going to proclaim PS2 is all roses when it comes to balance and execution? I bet I can even predict your response: "some things need to be more challenging to face than others", or something in that direction. However that ignores the fact that the challenge is mostly there for one side and not the other.

if more players learned how to deal with challenges instead of crying for nerfs, the game would have more players, and THAT is the truth.

1) why is it that only harassers can see lightnings first and open the engagement at advantage, and not the other way around? An AP lighting will SMOKE a harasser if it lands the first shot. I'm sure there's some great reason other than that lightning players are absolutely ******* notorious for tunneling in their single man vehicle. Perhaps lightning players could learn something from harassers.

2) I don't think anyone is saying that PS2 is a model of perfection, but your strawmen must live, so build away. Challanges are one sided by definition, thus the reward for OVERCOMING THE CHALLENGE. hurrdurr

The problem with the Heavy as I see it is that it is onminversally useful. For the most often repeated tasks in the game the Heavy is simply the best choice or the second best, while other classes are mostly niche.

Buffing is always a better and more fun way of improving the game. So rather than nerfing the Heavy we should buff the importance and use of the other classes. For example if you give the Medic the Forwards Station they were building until they gave it to construction system then it would give Medics the tools to push fights and change where the attack/defense comes from, limiting the amount of spawncamping and spawnwarriors you'll encounter. In return it makes the roles of Infiltrators and LA's more important as they have an easier time destroying it. This takes away from the omniversatility of the Heavy.

You know league of legends? When some champion is spammed that means it's very powerful. And what does the whole community do? They complain because it's unfair to deal with a champion that benefits the most from the meta.
In Planetside 2 when something is spammed it's the same story. There should be complaints because it's unfair to deal with it if you're not going by the meta.
It's a challenge of course but it's not fair. A game should be fair and fun mostly.

I gotta agree with Savadrin there. You're assuming the harasser just happens to waltz up and starts bullying lightnings and MBTs for their lunch money. Not how that works at all.

You then claim that everyone should have an even "challenge" but propose to raise that higher for the harasser? Lop sided much? That's before you even take into account that the harasser has to have *two* people to be effective. Lightning/MBT only needs one and there aren't many folks looking at the sundy as a combat vehicle anymore unless you count the hilariously unbalanced repair sundy train. Pull enough repair sundies you can out-tank the sun.

Perhaps the problem, is as stated. Often times I find tanks that aren't paying attention to their surroundings. Many a time I've watched as multiple tanks get flanked, start blowing up one by one, and no one even notices. If a harasser is out dueling a tank, odds are it's two men to the tank's one and the terrain is playing in the harasser's favor. IE: Harasser ambush.