After trying to play alts since starting back up i have this moment where i realize that i just cant actually turn the tides of battle without C4. Theres that moment where you get behind their point hold and find their sundy completely unguarded and and your just sitting there like I cant realistically kill this. Then again this is only one of several reasons the new player experience sucks. Even if the starter weapons don't suck your lack of versatility to adapt to the situations as needed on top of not being fully effective at doing so because you dont have proper implants excluding them even being at the right level or upgraded systems for your vehicles/infantry. Honestly the first 15 level free certs need to be drastically increased because currently its only enought to get one class to a decent level of competitiveness and if your a new player you probably want to try multiple classes and decent levels to really feel them out and re-rolling new characters to try one each time seems like a ****** way to have to go about it.
I have membership but also a free to play account (for mucking about and trying new stuff). My free avatars only have the two free implants. They do OK in combat. It is a bit easier to play well with the avatars on my membership account but not impossible at all to do a decent job with the free ones. But that is mostly because the membership account avatars have maxed out tools that generate certs and a few extra toys like special 'nades and mines. I don't play much HA now but I remember the default SAW was difficult to master. All the other default weapons are pretty decent and easy to manage if you know how to burst fire for recoil control (and aim for the head where possible). By the time I got to about BR 20 on my free account I had certed into nanoweave 4 and a side grade carbine for the LAs and Engies (weapons not essential but I just like the Jaguar, the Bandit and the VX6-7), plus C4 for the LAs. But that is about it, apart from a medkit for each one (I do miss the regen implants tbh). Now I am starting to upgrade the stuff that generates more certs - shield generator, ammo packs, medic gun, and repair tool.............so yes, I followed the old wisdom - medic and engie first. An LA with 2 x C4 and the free rocket rifle ought to be able to handle a sundy so long as you don't get interrupted by irritating enemies in the 15-20 seconds it takes.
Why did you make your way all the way over to where the enemy had placed an AMS Sunderer if you knew long beforehand that you would want to destroy it but also lacked the means of (contributing to) disposing it? That's something of a personal issue. You should get acquainted with the variety of ways that you are capable of dealing with any issue the game may present to you. You shouldn't stop with just the ones that are most comfortable.
Its more of the issue of flanking through a few enemys to find that nice cloak sundy and not having enough time to dump enough rockets/rocklets before people redeploy back to stop you. The other times its not so much coming across the sundy but knowing where it is and your team just wont go for it no matter how much you tell them or ask them too and lacking the means to do it yourself. You know that "if you want a job done right do it yourself" but lacking the means to do so. And thees are of course the sundys that are in places you cant get tanks to. As for the game giving you multiple ways to deal with any issue sure technically theres a way to deal with most issues but some are just not realistic and theres a few specific scenarios that are fairly common where you really cant. A deploy shield sundy a new players infantry cant kill i can barely do it on my main character with 2 C4 and 4 rockets and thats after managing to get to it as a heavy. This issue is most notable in off hour tech plant battles. As a new player you cant kill their deploy shield sundy under A point because you simply cant get a vehicle to it and you lack the fire power to take it out otherwise.
That's all on you. A cloak sundy is one of the easiest to near instantly kill. If there isn't a Engineer, whom you can easily kill, you can just dodge, fly, and unload till it explodes. As well, you shouldn't expect to be a one-man sunderer killer, when it has people around it. Imagine if it was so easy to destroy a Sunderer surrounded by allied infantry; Sunderers would just die even faster. Rarely do you need a tank to kill even a Shield Sundy. A Shield sundy isn't meant to be easily destroyed, let alone by a new player whom just stumbled upon it. If it was, then every intelligent player would just nuke them even easier. A shield sundy is a complicated target if you are new, as you need to stagger your explosives rather just "Pile it on, wittle it down, or fire at it till it explodes" as the shield actually regenerates - Which is why Its the most practical sundy to defend. That's called proper bloody positioning of a damn sunderer. Good that you can't reach it easily with a vehicle. Good that a literal new-guy-on-the-block can't solo the bloody sundy.. You don't even need C-4 to handle a Shield Sundy. C-4 is just the God brick of anti-vehicle when it comes to stationary targets. Don't expect to solo every single sundy, let alone a Bloody guarded one - As that would defeat the point of the shield, and guarding it. A lone LA can still kill any non-shielded sundy at a distance while being firing at, without even C-4, and it can even be defended. It shouldn't be even easier to Solo a spawn point - Let alone in your description of it being a Bloody guarded one.
Then maybe you shouldn't rely on C4? I use heavy, maxes, tank mines, tanks, lightnings, harassers, liberators, ESFs, valks even, and light assaults without C4. EDIT: With great success. Maybe the problem isn't that you don't always have C4, maybe the problem is everyone relys on C4 to do basically everything AV. I'm pretty against infantry being the "hero" that kills the sundi solo, that isn't how the game should be played, if your team is terrible then you're gonna lose and should lose because your team is terrible. It sucks, we all know it sucks, but giving individual players even more power makes everything else less powerful, why should I pull tanks to kill an armor column when I can simply render valk with C4 lights? Why should I pull an ESF when I can have 3 heavies be the AA? Why should I actively go out and try to kill this sundi with a tank when I could simply kill and go up with C4 instead? I'd sooner like to see tank squads being able to kill sunderers that rep tank with 5 engies than see one light instantly kill it with C4, that's rather ******** imo.
For a Lightning it should be easier to outperform a Sunderer than it's currently the case. That thing costs almost twice as much (Sunderer: 200; Lightning: 350) but gets into trouble even if facing just a single, 1-manned Sunderer with generic weapons already. In that situation the Lightning wins but not as easy as expected for it's price. Yes, I'm comparing close range with no cover with another because it's a price issue and not a "you should" or "ideal situation" bla bla point to make. Compared to a LA with 2x C4 (costs 150 max) + Rocklet Rifle this isn't fair design. Add to that the mobility and ability to sneak in which the LA has. Either that or Lightnings should be cheaper, like 250 or 275.
Well, it's a Light Tank. For only 150 more nanites, and is designed for speed. Unless using AP rounds, and you don't even mention the sundy type, shouldn't be expected to be "It scratched my paint, but dead is dead" Well, is the Lightning using AP? Skyguard? The Lightning isn't a full main-battle-tank, it's a light Tank with specialization options. A sunderer is a field transport, with AMS support, generally expected to survive more than just Flashes. Lightnings are one of the few basic vehicles, that have proper armor (Flashes, Harassers) So for its Price, it can be effective if used with the proper set-up for said task. Also, C-4 is 150 sure, but you have to basically touch the tank. Rocklet Rifle is also short ranged. The Lightning's main cannons all can do long-range bombardment - and have a lot more than 24 rocklets & 2 c-4.
"designed for speed". No, not really. Flash, Harasser are designed for speed. Tank-wise that'd only count if a Lightning had less trouble to ge across rough terrain than a MBT to make use of that speed. "The Lightning's main cannons all can do long-range bombardment - and have a lot more than 24 rocklets & 2 c-4." Yeah but the current discussion isn't along the lines what configs of a Lightning can do what but about how easy it is to 1-man counter any Sunderer config, especially for a LA. Compared to that we have tanks which should do the job but don't because they're expensive, have trouble getting across rough terrain and in the case of the Lightning underperform. "underperform" relates to nanite cost and effort having to put into achieving the goal of taking out a Sunderer, comparing LA & Lightning, both 1v1 fighting a single Sunderer defender (as that is the lowest amount of enemies encountered to determine minimum combat value). For both counts: Many enemies = potentially big trouble anways so let's compare minimum effort. No cover = LA dies, if spotted and shot at (most likely). Otherwise any sole LA can most likely blow up a Sunderer on it's own vs a sole defender. It's enough to vary running around and jumping on top of a Sunderer to avoid being shot, C4 finishes the job once the Rocklet rifle has done the damage or the other way around, depending on the situation. Lightnings of any config vs any config of Sunderer cost almost twice as much and thus should, in a 1v1 scenario, due to their price, succeed with almost half their health left with some configs doing worse and some configs doing better on either side. Currently Lightnings are either defeated (rank5 shield) or almost destroyed when fighting a Sunderer and yes, I'm talking face to face value, not best advantage value. The price should justify this. Otherwise the thing needs to be cheaper. Because if it stays like this I'll just use anything else available for less effort and a lower price to do the job and that's what we're talking about. "Rocklet Rifle is also short ranged.": Rocklet Rifle isn't short ranged. I've hit many targets at distances I'd use lock-ons and sniper rifles with that because vehicles are so large. It's just slow and has some projectile drop. Basically a lighter RPG version. For a light tank I'd like to have 1-2 seats to add transport capabilities for allies to the battles or engineers to jump in and support the front tanks.
Quoting makes replying easier. The point of mentioning lightning's main cannons, was the fact it is a cheaper thing than C-4 for the amount of damage & less effort it takes to deal said damage. A 1-man sunderer counter requires no-one at the sundy, no one paying attention, and the sundy to not be a shield sundy. The single sundy type designed to be used as a fortified Spawn point: The Shield. All it takes is one single person at the sundy, the LA can be shot down at the sundy, before they get there, and can even be killed before the C-4 detonates. A Lightning can however run over defenders, shell at a distance making it difficult to even destroy the Lightning, and can be used just to deliver an Engie with land mines to a sundy, and bug out. So the Shield actually being worth a **** is a good thing. If the shield was useless against the #1 vehicle opponent outside of Flashes... No Sundy would be safe, due to the speed of a Lightning tank, and the fact that a Shielded Stationary Sundy is dead to it. Any moving sundy, dead before even getting to deploy, if the shield dies to a Lighting quick. If the thing was cheaper, you'd see more tank spam. It's a light tank. A shield Sundy, a rank 5 shielded sundy, shouldn't be dead the moment a Lightning wanders up. As that is the entire point of the bloody shield. Rocklet Rifle is short ranged. It has a lot of gravity. If you can hit a target with a rocklet at 200-300 meters away, you are in an aircraft. From there, a Land mine or C-4 could be used "at the same range" The Practical range of a rocklet rifle, is short. Any weapon can be used from a Valk in the sky, but that doesn't change the practical range of the weapon. Is a land mine 150 meters range? No. But dropped from a Valk, it sounds like it is. Can you imagine where you'd place allies in the Lightning's frame? It's a light one-man tank - not a flash, or transport. A light tank. We have MBTs for heavier firepower, and Sunderers for transport.
Literally no one cares about dps. It's always about kills / destruction. Effort is rated by the player and if I can destroy something it was worth the effort more than if a can deal superiour dps but the target can survive. Wrong. I just stated it before: Run around the Sunderer, mix it with jumping on top of it, using the Rocklet Rifle and finish with C4 if it's a shield / barricade Sunderer. Or play situational with C4, which can also blow up all enemies close to it, granting you 10s of time before they can react. Ofc there's a good chance of being killed but there's also a chance of success. Any non-barricade or non-shield Sunderer requires just and only that I get to it with 2x C4 and a quickfire of the Rocklet Rifle, no matter the number of enemies there. Most don't look up a lot or only charge in one direction so even with a lot of enemies around a Sunderer using the right approach may grant satisfying results. See quote #2 answers and quote #4. If prefer barricade. Reduces overall damage taken and especially surprise C4 damage. Makes the thing repairable. A shield, once it's down, leaves the Sunderer without any protection value. Keeping the shield down is easy. I do this constantly. Just grab an engineer with an Archer or LA and get to some good cover, have a single Archer / Rocklet Rifle projectile hit the Sunderer before the shield regen sets in and you can keep it down and even force the enemy to focus on you, otherwise their precious shield Sunderer will be an unshielded target for other people. Talking ideal situations. In a lot of cases people wouldn't be able to aim correctly at my LA. Keep in mind in that this game it's not possible to aim up 90°. Keep also in mind that C4 bricks kill infantry around the Sunderer, granting 10s time until they respawn if no one else spawns and reacts in the meantime. Many people also park around cover which I can also use, granting them no long distance they can start shooting at me (or I'll just get around and use another direction) and once I'm starting to run around their Sunderer they're in trouble. If the gunner leaves the vehicle I'll detonate the C4 on the Sunderer's exit point. Only if you go with the approach of powering the unit up to be worth the price it's currently at opposed to my approach of making the unit cheaper (250-275 nanites instead of 350; a Sunderer costs 200) but otherwise leaving it as it is. Again: That's why I'd prefer the approach to make the tanks cheaper. What you forget while using that "more tank spam" argument: Space is limited and unlike infantry tanks can't all pile up clipping within another but need their space and things being cheap doesn't automatically translate to everyone using them constantly. Just piling up one unit type doesn't lead to success but just attract such counter forces that can get rid of them well and players know that, or they learn it. Well... not 300m away but I'm pretty sure I hit those bulky Sunderers at up to 200m pretty well if stationary or linear moving. The gravity isn't that high. It's somewhat around the TR's Striker, a little worse overall in handling in all ways but close to it. "From there, a Land mine or C-4 could be used "at the same range"" <- How is that to be understood ? Ejection seat + C4 / mines ? Not worth the effort, if so. The intended range of the Rocklet Rifle may be short but with single shots hits can still be achieved on stationary targets and linear moving targets (unless they're driving towards cover because the projectile is too slow at some distance then). It may not be good dps but it's good for assisting allies in situations where nothing better can be done anyways. As mentioned: I'd like the Lightning to gain 1-2 passenger seats to allow engineers and other infantry to hop in to get to the front, receive cover from area damage or do their support role by bringing them to other tank spots. I'd also prefer the approach of making the Lightning cheaper opposed to the approach of empowering it but your stance is a "do neither" because of an assumed Lightning spam setting in if it's made cheap or fearing Sunderers would be taken out by them too easy, if empowered, which would both lead to tanks escorting Sunderers, as it should always be the case anyways. ----- Because you've quoted and used it that often I think you misunderstood my intentions towards the Lightning. Ideally I'd reduce the price but in the current situation I am merely analyzing that it should be stronger than a Sunderer if costing almost twice as much, not saying this is the thing I prefer. It's just analyzing the price -> value when comparing these two. The design style of Sunderers doesn't really fit the game. They're huge, slow, clunky, instead of fast, mobile, sleek. While they can handle terrain better than a tank their engine is still pretty weak. They're required to remain stationary to operate while lacking some kind of turret mode or fortified mode while being stationary. Around them no recharge / shield / heal area exists as it would be expected from such a spawn area. They're meant to be abandoned to go for the cap point whenever not attacking with superiour numbers to have a chance to push through because otherwise the attack might fail (might fail anyways if outnumbered) and people are thrown back to the Sunderer, which ends up with it being destroyed anyways. There are no 1-2 additional faction specific spawn tubes / portals / faction specific spawn beacons a Sunderer can deploy (with some recharge time to it), creating no-deploy zones around them and allowing to hide the true Sunderer position by allowing attackers to spawn from other spots instead of just one, where the Sunderer stands, to make it harder for enemies to determine where the spawner stands. The engine is noisy, which is often lethal, radar stealth isn't baseline or better than for other vehicles on such a "get close to the enemy base" unit. Units entering the vehicle are neither instantly nor over time healed and rearmed. It's a really strange design that only works with numbers backing that thing up or enemies not caring.
How hard is it to quote someone properly? A lightning, a single lightning can destroy the target in the first go; Ammo is rarely ever an issue. A LA, must get lucky, and pray no one is competent, and only has 2 C-4 with 24 Rocklets per attempt. The Lightning can engage at whatever range. The LA must be within every weapon's range, including their own C-4's blast radius. I commonly murder the living hell out of LA's attempting to use the sundy top as a shield. As an engineer. C-4 has a limited blast radius, and this assumes the infantry all are right beside the sundy within that. If not, you just lost 1 of 2 C-4 bombing infantry or missed the infantry due to them not being there, both of which (C-4) need to be used in a series or the shield recovers preventing you from doing anything at all. That ain't one LA. That's an specific Engie, with LOS firing on a Sunderer, with an LA then having to manage to get to the Sundy themselves. Aka, I can make the same argument about an ESF blasting the shield down while an Engineer lays tank mines down... Ideal situations aren't all that common. Assuming people can't aim, with Vehicle defaults, infantry weapons, and more at a likely distance from you... Gain enough height, and the vehicle can easily aim at you. Gain enough height, those whom aren't directly below you... are the death of you. As it requires every single infantryman sitting there, to all not have an angle for the entire time you engage them. Ideal? **** off. That's miracle, or Poor sundy positioning. Keep in mind, the Sundy shield recharges, and needs both C-4 on it. Anyone spawning on the other side, not next to the sundy, or moved just survived easily the C-4. Or you just screwed your entire attempt. To have the C-4 not detonated, and see if the Gunner leaves... is insane. As well, any infantry nearby can easily get into the seat again. If that wasn't your first C-4, the shield will recharge likely before that Gunner exists. Hell of a lot of Luck. If a lightning was Cheaper, you could more easily replace a HE spamming tank faster. And more often. It also means Aircraft must deal with Cheaper skyguards. And every vehicle & every infantry must deal with faster Lightning replacements.. Space is limited, but the range of said vehicles isn't as limited as infantry. Said vehicles are also a Force-multiplier, and if cheaper can be replaced faster. Making the effect of destroying one less. You ever heard of a Valkyrie? Aka "Air transport", it has rumble seats... like dear lord man, know your vehicles. Compare that to hundreds of longer ranged cannon shells, that can be HE or AP. And it starts to look like ****. Make the Lightning cheaper, while granting it the ability to have pocket-engineers. Or to protect its own engineers... Basically a Harasser rear rumble seat without the vulnerability. Are you going to sit a Lightning next to every sundy? Does a Lightning Escort magically block shots to a nearby sunderer? Nope... Does the concept that if they are cheaper, the number of attempts a Single, a Single tank driver can make using Lightnings is a lot higher... and that is with each attempt costing the bloody tank, ring any ******* bells? Cost isn't the sole factor of what should be better. A sundy is a transport, when equipped with the Shield, a fortified spawn point; Which is only when deployed. If it can't stand up to the literal #1 basic offensive vehicle, it can not survive being a spawn point let alone a fortified one. The Sunderer is tanky, to survive hits so it can bring soldiers & maxes to the front line. The Flash is the light transport. The Sunderer is designed as an AMS & transport vehicle, IE the Beach head to any fight. The deployment mode, when equipped with the Shield, provides the Bunker-down approach. Who the hell abandons their spawn point? It's a mobile spawn point, who expects it to provide a spawn room's advantage? That's sorta a defenders thing. If it became anything like the Spawn Rooms, you'd have the defenders pretty much matched by a single sundy. And then overpowered due to the Enemy having numerous positions that automatically restore them in the field. Imagine placing a Sundy, and it automatically recovering your health, while you bombard a spawn room. That is a literal thing; The bombardment. It gets worse, when you consider fights in-between bases are often based around Sunderers. Having automatic healing due to being near a sundy, without a medic? That'd be hell to fight. It's not meant to set-up a spawn-room level point, to be abandoned. If it could, then Forces being attacked wouldn't have to care all that much about defending their beach head; Only about jamming the defenders into the spawn room. Counter attacks would have to face automated & hardened defenses... that don't need any of the original attackers. IE presently you have to take care of your spawns, when attacking rather than just mob the base. This is practical. Attackers having to not actually place spawns intelligently, and defend them... basically just makes it mindless swarming. Also means defenders can't take out the spawns if they manage to escape the entirely uncaring attackers.
Short answer: NO long answer, HELL NO! Blowing up groups of ppl, maxes and vehicles isn't a privilege, it's something you should spec for. /endof
