[Suggestion] Add class limits to SMGs in addition to incoming LMG changes. (No smgs for HA)

With the .75 ads being removed from the VS LMGs (which look to be the most major changes), smgs should finally get class limitations in not being allowed on the HA (and medic imo) as an added measure for overall HA balance (cyclone HAs would end up dominating). As it is smgs are long overdue to have class limitations and with the incoming lmg changes would also help to more properly define HAs as a support/heavy weapons class role.

Thoughts?

I'm going to repost the same thing I posted in hte last "remove smgs from HAs" thread.

I actually have a lot of respect for heavies that can pull off SMGs, its not something I am not able to do effectively.

The cyclone and the Armistice are the only two smgs in the game that can compete with other CqC primaries in terms of damage, and its only for ~15 meters. The rest of the smgs boast an inferior, or in the case of the Eridani, the same damage model of other cqc primaries.

SMGs are also inferior compared to other weapons in everything expect mobility, their extreme mobility allows them to compensate for being weak in all other areas so long as the user knows how to exploit it. However the heavies main advantage, the overshield, severally hampers mobility, which would devoid the entire reasoning for using a smg.

A heavy using a SMG needs to do a lot of mircomanaging in combat to make sure he isn't squandering either of his advantages, otherwise he'd be better off with an LMG or as another class. Even if the HA does know how to use both the overshield and mobility to his advantage, he's still be better off with a lmg past 10ish meters.

Honestly I do not get what all the fuss about SMG HA is. I see them very rarely. Maybe it's just not popular on my server.

If LMG changes go live, we'll have to see if SMG HAs become more mainstream, but let's be realistic - they will all just switch to NS-15M, like already 95% of non-VS HAs have done.

I have Shuriken, and I have to say the journey to get it was one of the most painful, grindy and unpleasant experiences of PS2. But it taught me a lot. After that playing with basically any AR feels overpowered.

SMGs are generally very weak, and their lack of effective range and magazine size is punishing. SMGs are optimal only on the Infiltrator, and that's only because they have no other options except for auto scout rifles -_-

Besides, shouldn't be a soldeir with a rocket launcher be using a light weapon to compensate for added weight?

TL;DR - I don't see SMG HAs as a problem. Shield is the problem, not weapon.

how about no. with the changes to the orion cross faction HA ADS is balanced out. you can take a SMG or NS-11M for the ADS bonus or you can stick with another lmg.

all factions will be on equal ADS footing wielding similar weapons.

source please

here you go

http://www.reddit.com/r/Planetside/comments/37njed/lmg_changes_coming_to_pts/

http://www.reddit.com/r/Planetside/comments/37njed/lmg_changes_coming_to_pts/

True but the Cyclone will be the higher DPS weapon with an ADS advantage over the orion (which is/will be considered the best cqc lmg and seems to be the main point of contention of the changes, .75 ads in addition to the orions other stats) with the armistice being the only other weapon in the game that can out dps the cyclone while the sirius and eridani have sub par/ lower dps compared to the other factions smgs. Plus smg HA is just cheesy (shotgun HA is more then enough), the idea is to be an added balancing act to prevent smg heavies dominating cqc battles, as it is HA's already dominate cqc battles. The suggestion is intended to also potentially prevent faction imbalance and added class specification; the idea seems to be pretty popular on reddit as it is.

Plus HAs are just way too common place in game in having the largest most diverse arsenal available to them, a little bit of weapon limitations, ideally smgs and maybe even battle rifles, wouldn't hurt the balance of the game.

cant wait until crutch assault maintains supremacy and doesnt change at all, and vs has still do very well with ns15s and such

Considering everyone has access to the NS-15m, it'll be much harder to whine about "balance." Sure, it's got .75x ADS, but it's DPS is in the crapper, and most squishies mindful of the fact they'll run into a heavy typically bring along something with a lot more DPS. Just so happens these weapons also tend to have .75x ADS.

Forgot to add that in smgs being removed from HA that ADS would be normalized across each faction with shotguns and the NS-15M offering .75 ads still available cross faction.

Oh don't you worry. They will do it.

If they don't blame it on the NS-15m they will blame Vanu SMGs (as I'm sure will become more popular).

Its like the episode of Fairly Oddparents where Timmy turns everyone into grey blobs.

We can all be the same physically, but those guys are still idiots.

And i still don't understand why wasn't the shield a problem in 2012 and 2013 and in the first half of 2014 but now it is.Why?It wasn't changed.

Cyclone is the only one that's really a balance problem on HA I think.

NS have weak TTKs, while the faction specific SMGs have too high horizontal recoil for their fire rates to be worth much w/ADS. Cyclone has neither of those weaknesses and is just clearly a notch above the rest.

Shotgun HA can be kind of imbalanced too but only at certain bases.

It was a problem -_-

Libs, Hacksaws, ZOE, phoenix missiles, HE spam and AP-APs dropping ESFs like flies distracted people from infantry problems. nanoweave changes, declining server quality, and the auraxium LMGs being more than a novelty (unlike other auraxium variants) have made the problem more apparent along with other problems being removed from in front of it.

I've been suggesting this.............. FOR SO LONG.


SMG's should only be on the LA,Engineer & Infiltrator.

The only the two NC SMGs seems to be the issue due to their low horizontal recoil and low Tolerance which makes them great at ADS were as the others shake quite hard while ADS. If they changes those two stats on the NC SMG they will be inline with the way the others, great hip fire weapons but only good at ADS while under 10m.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again:

Remove SMGs from infiltrators.

Some of that was due to ZOE. While the ZOEpocalypse reigned the VS HA was practically extinct, 90% of all HA rolled ZOE and most others were Engi or CM. Compared to the ZOE the Orion HA was a blessing, and few paid attention to them because of rarity.

Then ZOE got nerfed, VS HA's became considerably more prevalent and the NC/TR HA's who had previously been at the forefront of the anti-ZOE squads suddenly had a lot of over-compensated skill in how to act fast, and no reason to not roll HA.

Honestly, while I could well be wrong I'd bet some money on the ZOEpocalypse being at least partially to blame for the popularity of the HA class, if only because you needed lots of conc nades and dumb-fires to hope to stop the ZOE faction. Once they were nerfed, why stop using the class?