So what are your preferred setups for the Flare? I'm still working with this gun, bought it last week. I've bought both types of ammo for it and 2x reflex sight, compressor and laser sight. Just trying out different combinations, I can see the laser sight working, but the compensator doesn't seem to do a whole lot, if anything. I guess I'll give 6x scope a try with the HVA ammo and compensator for long range, would be nice to have something for beyond close-mid range. I think I am noticing that Orion is better for strictly close range, but I really like the multiple options that Flare offers, which Orion can't. Also 75 round clips +300 ammo means you won't be running out of ammo very fast. What are your opinions of the Flare? Your favorite setups? And how well do you fare at CQC with the flare with laser sight and soft point? I have to say, I am a bit of a spaz and sometimes just get slaughtered close range heh.
Currently i'm using it with the 2x reflex sight and a compensator. Seems to work very well, except for really close combat. I do love the amount of damage you can get from a single mag. Coming from the Orion thats a huge improvement I'll certainly try HV ammo, but i'm not sure for the last upgrade. I dont see the use of the lasersight for a waepon thats bad at close range anyway... other than to give away your position. On the other hand i've heard that foregrip does very little for VS weapons and the mag size is already pretty good.
Iam using it with: IRNV-Sight or 2x reflex (usually the IRNV, because most of the time iam in CQC or Midrange) Compensator Forgrip Softpointammo I don't have to use lasersight, because i don't use hipfire. Thats why i use the IRNV in most situations. You should also stop using lasersight and hipfire. Thats why you get slaughtered in CQC
Well, it seems for me that the fov with the 2x holo sight is just to small to be useful in CQC. And with the 1x holo or the IRNV the flare loses most of its long range qualities.
Frankly, the only thing I would really consider a Flare for is the large magazine. It's pretty much all around worse at everything compared to the Orion, SVA-88 and Pulsar LSW, bar it's little extended magazine certificate. My setup would be: Extended Magazine. Compensator. VHO Reflex (2x) scope. Soft Point Ammunition.
@Cassidia...if you don't use the Flare in long range, it doesen't matter. But with the IRNV it is also possible to shoot at high range. But its not as easy as with the 2 x Holo. @Ruvan here is a discussion about the LMG's with a lot of backgroundinformation to the weapons. http://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/index.php?threads/vanu-lmgs-save-certs.60716/ Its not worse at everything. Highest DMG with slow rpm means, that not only your clip is larger, it also holds longer. And there are some other advantages. Just take a look in the thread
Agree with everything except the 2x and soft point in the same loadout. Soft point is good at 25 metres but gets worse at 50 metres. the 2x is a little too long for the ranges where soft point ammo is useful. I'd just use the Orion or Pulsar LSW for everything, changing scopes to suit the situation. If you have the certs and money, I'd run an Orion + Polaris setup, with the Orion for close range and Polaris for long range. The Orion is the best VS LMG for close range while the Polaris is the best at long range, and the Pulsar is decent at everything while being bad at nothing.
I use the Flare, SVA88, Lasher, and Pandora, just depends on WTF I am doing. However I use the Flare the most... Flare: 1. 2x/NV/4OG - 2x for midrange bright open field action, 4OG for longer, and NV for everything else close (night), since it really cancels the camo, accentuates outlines, and crosses factions for familiarity. 2. Compensator - w/HVA I like the extra stability. 3. Grip - I used to be a 245 out of 250 dinger in the marines (RL), and one thing you know is that the smallest movement at the barrel is huge down range, and avatars are much larger up and down than they are sideways, and this rifle hits hard a long ways off, moreso w/HVA, so "get a grip"... 4. HVA - I like to roll their eyes back at a tactically superior range, and natural Flare range w/HVA does that, because if you let a CARV get close, he will F**k you 9 ways to forever. I am in process of using the SVA88 for short term urban only, due to the fact that I am used to the larger pool of potential damage of the Flare (more bullets that do more...). The 88 will have less potential, but a quicker kill time. No potential if dead, so we'll see if it actually pans out. Though the Flare kitted out with Softpoint smacks *** in close, I just had to up my scoped mouse speed, cause I refuse to hip fire the thing. So situational awareness, or back pedal with shields up is the plan. As you can see, Im not convinced the 88 trumps the Flare, at any range, given larger potential damage pool, and softpoint.
Why would you say that? The Flare has advantages that no other VS lmg gives, and its certainly the one that differs the most from the Orion wich makes it a great second weapon for situations where the Orion is just not the right choice. -highest per shot damage and lowest damage drop over range -more recoil that the Pulsar/Polaris, but less than Orion/SVA if you take into account the lower rof/higher damage, medium first shot multiplier -best accuracy when standing still, average when moving -second best ammo capacity after the Polaris (again taking into account dmg/shot) -an excellent variety of available upgrades -dps between SVA/Pulsar and Polaris All in all the Flare ist by far the best VS LMG for mid to long rage engagements (wich is where the Orion sucks most, btw). Orion and SVA are preffered vor short range and shoting on the run (you'd take the SVA her if you cant get around with the Orions low clip size). The only LMGs i dont see any use in are the Polaris and the Pulsar. Their main advantage is the low recoil, but recoil can be compensated for... wich the sidewards recoil of those two weapons actually makes harder to achieve.
If I am mainly firing from the hip I would use an Orion or VX29 Polaris because: The Orion kills the fastest from the hip. 50 magazine is enough for smaller engagements. The VX29, although having a higher TTK time than the Flare, has Advanced Laser Sight, which makes it noticeably more accurate. I want as big of a magazine as possible in large engagements. The Flares only use at this range is when you need a magazine size above 100 and when realistically would you ever need that. The Orion flat out kills *much* faster and the VX29 has a sufficiently large magazine, similar TTK and noticeably better accuracy. If I am mainly firing at medium range I would use the Orion, Pulsar LSW or SVA-88 because: Same reason for the Orion from firing from the hip. The Pulsar LSW and SVA-88 kill faster than the Flare for those situations where a 75 magazine size is sufficient. If I need the maximum possible number of bullets per magazine I'd use a Soft Point Ammunition Flare with Extended Magazine. If I am mainly firing at long range I would use an SVA-88 because: SVA-88 has access to the 6x scope, acess to high velocity ammunition, access to a compensator AND it can perform competitively at short/medium range TTK-wise. Flare is arguably a better long range gun than an SVA-88 due to more damage per bullet, however, it cannot be competitive at long range and competitive at short/medium at the same time. It's either or. The whole point of using an LMG at long range is that it can also perform competitively at short/medium range as well. If I were fighting exclusively at long range I'd use the Eidolon (Battle Rifle), which is by far the best long range gun we have. The possible uses for a Flare from my paragraph on medium range combat can be covered by the following setup: 1x/2x scope. Soft Point. Extended Magazine. Compensator.
Well, it seem we have quite different opinions what close, medium and long range is. A range where you can use hipfire with any decent efficiency is close range for me. The TTK of the Flare is actually VERY close to that of the SVA/Pulsar. I doubt you'll notice the difference between 520ms and 516ms. The Flare actually has lower TTK for finishing up low health targets thanks to the higher upfront damage. If you like the lasersight, then the Polaris might look nice, but its TTK is definitely not competitively. And i personally dont like the idea of giving away my position more easily. So to sum it up, the flare has: -TTK competitive to any LMG but the Orion -still best COF while standing sill -hightest single shot damage and lowest damage drop -access to all desirable medium/long range extensions Still making it the best long range gun we have and competitive ad medium ranges. Of course it cant be competitive at long, medium AND short ranges. No gun can. My decision for best short range gun is primarily driven by the fact that i try to avoid hip fire whenever possible. Even with perfect hip fire upgrades its still a LOT less accurate than ADS. Thats why i prefer ORion and SVA at close range, since they have the amazing property of only slowing you down half as much in ADS. And if you really are close enough that accuracy doesnt matter at all: hip fire COF are not THAT much different between guns. The only major difference could be the Lasersight, wich, as mentioned above, i try to avoid. And following your own arguments, the SVA would be prefferable to the Flare in CQC, competitive in medium rang but NOT competitive at long range. PS: Have you tried the Eidolon? All i've heard is that its pretty much useless and inferior to most LMGs at long range. Weapon stats support this evaluation. PPS: what is it whith everyone and the 6x scope? I've yet to find any situation in this game where i'd have a target that could reliably be damaged by a LMG but wasnt clearly visible on a 2x scope or a 4x at most.
Flare TTK 0m = 525ms VX29 TTK 0m = 558ms TTK 0m difference = 33ms Flare TTK 10m = 630ms VX29 TTK 10m = 651ms TTK 10m difference = 21ms 10m is probably a bit long for aim from the hip. TTK time for most aim from the hip fights will be between these two figures. Either way, between a difference of between 21ms and 33 ms is basically inconsequential. The TTK of the Polaris might not be competitive with the Orion. We can agree on that. However, it definably is competitive with the Flare. I can understand that the Flare might pull slightly ahead if you don't like Laser Sight. Personally, I find the reduction to the aim-from-the-hip reticle very useful, as well as the laser itself (which I find helps me aim). If you think about it, if the Advanced Laser Sight helps you hit with a mere one more bullet, then the practical TTK time will go soaring ahead of the Flare. If you fire from the hip against a wall for a while you will notice that the spread of bullets becomes larger the larger the aim from the hip reticle is. The reticle on a Laser Sight is dramatically smaller than one on a weapon without laser sight. Therefore, there is a very real possibility that a weapon without a laser sight will miss more than one that does have a laser sight (especially an advanced one). The Laser Sight giving your position away is a valid point. You can switch it off by pressing L but it does not appear switched off to the enemy (which may or may not be a bug). With the way I play and the situations I use the Laser Sight in, I very rarely find it to be a problem myself. Having had another look at the TTK times on the Flare vs SVA-88 I am now inclined to agree with you that the Flare is a decent choice at long range. For some reason I thought there was more difference between the TTK times than there actually is. In fact, I would be inclined to favour a Flare over an SVA-88. The Eidolon is by far our best long range gun. Don't believe the naysayers. I have seen these threads around the forums and they are written by people who cannot understand that you cannot have a class that is amazing at everything (without breaking the game). They basically want the Eidolon to be as powerful as a sniper rifle, which is a completely unrealistic request. If you compare the Eidolon to a semi-automatic sniper rifle it actually doesn't do too badly. The damage is inferior, however, there is no scope drift, the projectile speed is reasonable, the rate of fire is much higher and it has a magazine that is twice as large. This means that there is many more opportunities to hit with an Eidolon than there is a semi-automatic sniper rifle. Furthermore, due to the higher rate of fire of the Eidolon, shield and higher health, a heavy with this weapon is much better at short/medium range than an Inf with a semi-auto. Oh, and we can kill vehicles and kill MAX easily with our rocket launchers. The Eidolon is actually on the verge of being overpowered. The other BRs are another story as they have bullet drop. Regarding the 6x scope, I never really use one very much but I thought it was relevant for comparing accuracy at extreme ranges. Generally I use a 4x scope with LMGs and use a 6x with an Eidolon.
Wow, Ruvan and Cassidia, your constructive criticism, quality arguments and overall demeanor made me realize once again why I love this game and was of great help choosing an upgrade. Thank you to both (and the rest who contributed).
Since this thread involves loads of theorycrafting involving my current favorite LMG (Flare) I was wondering if SPA+Suppressor+IRNV scope (x1)+extended mag(eventually) is a good build for close quarters to medium ranged combat? And Ruvan+Cassidia cool arguements. Both are a nice interesting read that even a newbie like me can understand =P. Thanks so much for being cool men of the forums!
Why are your TTK higher at 10m? Did you include shell flight time? Id love to try out the VX29 with advanced laser sight, but i really dont like the idea to spend more than 1000 certs to find out if i really like that combination. Would be great if we had access to all weapon upgrades when testing a weapon. Hm, i'm not sure if building a flare for close quarters is really a good idea, since it doesn't really play to the guns strenghtes. But then after all i'm not a shooter pro and i have neither tried SPA nor Suppressor so far. The IRNV certainly helps with target aquisition, but after a while i found the reduced fov limiting and it reduces any possibility for long range shots. I found myself to be more efficient with the 1x holo scope once i got better with spotting targets (spamming q helps a lot here ). PS, thanks Polizei, Tuhnsoo. Forums can be fun if there are actually arguments used and stuff. Sometimes you just get frustrated (especially if you just had a gaming session where you died a lot) and start unloading in the flame threads. Happens to me too.
Great job on the info and CONSTRUCTIVE arguments, this is the kind of stuff I like to see and appreciate! Just because you are arguing for a side over another, doesn't mean it has to turn into a @#$!storm of insults, as if because you don't like what they like, you are insulting their entire lineage down to Poopsy the pup. I have spent probably 800 certs or so getting the Flare and different scopes. I have to say for mid-range (and sometimes room clearing) the bigger than average clip - and don't forget maximum ammo - has been really nice. Especially if you have the extended magazine, 150 round clips mean you only reload when you are GOOD and ready to. In a target rich environment it can make a big difference, especially if you are covering people. I have tried the 6x scope and HVA together with a compensator, but all its really good for is plinking people on ridges 1 bullet at a time to keep their heads down, or to farm assists while you wait for that mid range target. Trying to open up full auto at any range with 6x is about impossible (as it should be), the most I can seem to do is single shots and or a few bursts So far my stock setup is 2x HV scope, extended mag, HV ammo and sometimes a compressor. I have tried the laser sight for up close but I'm just not a fan of hip fire, except basically point blank range, and the flare's not that great at cqc unfortunately, hip fire or not. IF you can get first shot off though, it does alright, but that can be said for any weapon basically. Only about 50 more kills to go with my Orion and I will have the 1200 kill medal for an extra 100 certs, and I will only need about 100 more certs after that to *gulp* give the Lasher a good long session. After I get the medal for the Orion I'll be using the Flare as my main gun, working on the 1200 kill medal for that and trying different combos. Have a great weekend folks! -Supercakers -- Connery
I'm TR but Flare is easily my favorite weapon on Vanu Alt. Foregrip Compensator Variety of Optics, I just switch to whatever I feel like. 2x Reflex, HS/NV, 4x Crosshair, 3.4x dot *the last one not so much anymore* Soft point ammo, while I wouldnt buy it on any other gun, it seems to do well on this one. Also roll with Resist shield on all heavy loadouts, NC Tear extractor
I have used a flare pretty much since I started playing as a Vanu HA on planetside 2. Setup:- Compensator Forward Grip X2 Reflex sight High Velocity Ammo This gun is basically Vanus version of an NC lmg. Slow fire rate and a hard hitter. Without the certs this thing is pretty garbage. Useless from the hip accuracy. It is considered the 'marksmans' lmg according to it's description which to me means you have to be a good aim in the first place to use it. If anything this is a medium range, weapon which you aim and spray with in long bursts. It can do good damage to ESF as well. Good for spraying groups huddled together in an area....say near a capture point. CQC against a T9 Carv, you are usually going to lose if using a flare. It's just not designed for CQC. None the less I have had decent success with it. I think I have the Virgo Auraxim with it. But that's more to do with using headphones to hear the direction footsteps, nanite armor upgrades, and being prepared to get the jump on enemy rather than the gun itself.
you need to start aiming for the head more often. Maybe the people on my VS server are just bad, but I waste tons of CARV and Gauss Saw users with the Flare at all ranges. It has horrible hipfire but almost every gun does unless it's geared to do the opposite "like slapping adv laser dot on it" even the Terran TAR which is supposed to be TR's prime hipfire AR, is already pretty mediocre out of the box
