Double XP becomes Normal XP? Thoughts?

And yet World of Warcraft still has some 10 million active active subs despite being past its prime. And reported a million concurrent players in China alone. One region, one game, and it's more than all those other games combined.

And you're trying to tell me that's not how it works? Hah.

Also games may use progression mechanics to prop up poor gameplay. But that doesn't mean that you can't have progression and good gameplay. The two are not mutually exclusive. Also despicable? Yes it's so despicable of them to provide this free game for you to play. How dare they engineer it in such a way to keep people playing in order for them to make money.

What a freaking outrage.

Well shucks, guess I was overexaggerating. Sue me. Let me put it this way, I've earnt far too many certs this weekend, and it wasn't "casually" I played most of the 2 days. Good job detective!

Are you trying to use World of Warcraft, the game that gets slack for making the game easier to progress every expansion an example as to why you shouldn't make progression easier?

World of Warcraft has made progression easier which allowed people to experience more areas of the game and they became more successful because of it, which is what this thread is asking SoE to do with PS2.

I played quite a bit this weekend, much more than I normally would and made about 600 certs. I think a weapon and an attachment or two a week for someone who plays a decent amount is fairly reasonable to keep non subscribers happy though somewhat annoyed with the grind. That said, double xp is too much xp for that, and while it's satisfying, that satisfaction should be reserved for people who pay. If I payed for the game at a retail price, and also payed for a subscription like ps1, I think the current double xp is about right, but I dont, so it's too much. I'm still not sure if the current rate is okay or not, though I'm certain that soe has a specific achievement rate that they are trying to achieve, and are watching the average income and player choices and will make adjustments as needed.

I do strongly believe that there's far too much of a discrepancy between the experience of a paying and non paying customer. Alot of this will dissapear over time as the gaps between paying and non paying begin to lessen, however building a positive relationship with the playerbase overall is a ... well it seems silly to point out how important that is.

Some simple changes to normalize the experience would go a long way though, such as more flat cert rewards for achievements based on time or skill... basically something similar to weapon medals but applied to a variety of other things, like headshots, vehicle kills/armor kills, short range kills, long range kills, weapon class usage kills, base caps .etc These are things both paying and non paying customers would benefit from to the same degree, allowing them to normalize the experience slightly. The other major part is non paying cosmetics.. well maybe cosmetics isn't the proper word, but visual distinctions available to non paying customers, and visuals that have significance within the game mechanics are all pretty damn important.. like in the original planetside, the way you looked was determined by your time playing, through your battle and command ranks. I mean this is how it always was with older games... this is why we currently believe that visual distinction represents some level of commitment or seriousness within the game... because previously that was the only way to get it, you had to earn it... now you just buy it.
So I suggest a dual approach, battle rank or other experience or achievements will give you some additional model types (such as a different helm, or some additional detail on armor .etc), and as a paying customer you can get cosmetic variants of these items... once you have earned them.... this will create a better economy and give more meaning to visual distinction (as it allows people to display their epeen, which is kind of important on the internet)

Well, hooray for going way off subject. Enjoy.

I think a lot of people underestimate the amount of money that is being made by this game. According to Higby it well exceeds their expectations, and this probably means PS2 could afford to have experience gains and cert gains increased in some capacity maybe more than double, maybe less. This would result in more players playing the game at all, and an increase in the number of people paying for the game.

That said, even if SOE didn't want to shift in that direction, they could still increase experience gains while keeping gun prices almost completely unaffected if they just used separate currencies for weapons and skills.

I also think a lot of people don't realize games like this cost a couple million to make and they have to make that back before profit sets in.

OP, I fully support your idea.

As for those worrying about SOE's finances,

So what you said before was completely BS and for the most part the opposite of what happened?

Great, well thanks for informing us that we shouldn't expect anything you say to be credible.

You haven't even earned enough certs to get 4 decent unlocks, and thats after playing for 84 hours, not to mention the double EXP weekend.

Ohhh nice "detective" jab there, real classy, because you know, god forbid someone isn't actually talking out of their *** and has something to back up their arguments.

Honestly with the current selection increasing the cert rate is a terrible idea. Everyone would have everything they needed in 2mo or less, and this is a game that is designed to be played and evolved over years.

However they should really consider lowering the max cost of certs and increasing the usefulness of certs. A 1000 weapon should be closer to 700 in cost, especially since most weapons are side grades. I have no real incentive to invest into a 1000 weapon right now over a non-1000 weapon because those 1000 weapons tend to not be much better or worse to warrent the extreme grind you have to do to get them (and by extreme grind, I mean not spending any certs on anything for 10-12 days, which isn't terrible but could be better). They need to also make these guns cost (at most) 500sc. That would make things much more enticing for me to jump in and actually get these guns, and invest more into the game.

They also must make it so the certs are actually worth it for the most part. I'd say only about a third of the certs in this game are worth investing in at all, and most other ones really struggle to make their cert cost actually fair. I'm fine with revive grenades being 200 - its a major class change and it honestly doesn't take THAT long to get 200 certs. However they really need to make them much better - sticky for example would do wonders.

Nanoweave is another example. When max'd out all it does it save you from 1-2 bullets depending on the gun used. Worthless considering the amount of certs is needed for that. Why not make it so it's actually worth the 500-1000 total certs you pour into nanoweave by literally adding 1-2 seconds to your TTK at the cost of something else (movement speed and your ability to be healed, for example?).

So many certs just give you small BS that isn't worth investing even small amounts into. Fix those. Remove certs that are redundant for certain weapons/classes (like foregrip on snipers, which literally do nothing. Also scilencers on snipers which are way too expensive).

All of these things would make their system work much better without actually increasing the rate.

And who knows, once they get a much larger selection of certs/toys to get later on down the line, it would be a good idea to increase the cert rate a bit to make up for that.

I'm fine with going back to normal. Double XP was a nice treat, but it was far too excessive a rate to keep going indefinitely.

There'd be no reason to buy anything at all in a mere month or two, a fact that most who complain about cert rates continue to forget. Everyone wants to be 'Prestige 10+' within 60 days so they can be done with PS2 just in time for the next big shiny. No one considers playing this MMO for years as it is intended.

For one, World of Warcraft is the first of its kind, a widely accessible skinners box. Due to the nature of it, no game will ever be able to clone it properly. It is a complete anomaly, and cannot be compared to anything.

Second, the numbers I was giving were peak users. Surely you don't think World of Warcraft has all 10 million players online at any given moment?

Third, I myself said that a good game can have progression, did you even read my post?

To top it off, you are defending them by saying the game is free. Get the **** out. They are offering us a product, how they deliver it to us changes nothing.

You really need to calm yourself son. Did I grossly offend you by exaggerating 1 fact? There have been worse things done that haven't garnered so much vitriol from someone. I can only guess either you have a personal vendetta against me, or you're just somebody with anger issues. Anyway, this isn't what this thread is about, you want to keep posting purely about me, then send me a PM.

I'll play both sides of the fence on this one...


I'd love to have the "Double" XP as "Normal" XP because I would completely unlock everything in a week.

I'd hate to have the "Double" XP as "Normal" XP because I would completely unlock everything in a week.




To elaborate...

With the double XP I was making 250-350 certs per hour. As insanely awesomely super fun this was, it wouldn't leave me much to unlock down the line without hopping factions.

Awesome while being not so awesome.

I think it should be 2x normally.. SOE makes loads of money as it is, so do not worry about them.. A average newly released game on the PC gets 25-30 dollars for the devs.. 100% of the money earned by the ingame market goes to the devs.. So they clearly make enough money.. The idea takes a lot of thought for one to process.. But, if you make it 2x exp normally, then more people would play.. Generally people are lazy and will pay for weapons/skins regardless.. They will make money.. Lets take Team Fortress 2 for example.. It is SOOO easy to get hats and weapons in that game, yet people buy loads of things from the store..

For those who do not understand I will word it much simpler.. Make 2x normal, then more people join = more people use money because they are lazy..

People say 2x normally will make it so they can unlock every weapon in a week like the post above.. I have a challenge for you people.. Unlock every weapon in 2 weeks on 1x.. If you cannot, your statement does not stand true..

So how many people state "I'll have everything in 1 week/2 months/whatever" realize that its still 2 weeks or 4 months at most without the boost. This also wasn't a straight 2x across the board either.

If there's anything wrong with how progression is determined. It's that its usually built around the players that are going to burn themselves out and leave in a month.

If you ask me the normal cert rate does need an increase but not as large as double, i think something around a 20% increase would be right around where it needs to be. See the thing most need to keep in mind is lots more things are coming down the road that will require certs. More Variants, more vehicles, more weapons and the more that gets piled on the harder it is for you to gain the setup you want.

Like right now my only goals is to trick out my lightning and HA, i havnt had much time to play during the double XP weekend but i was able to gain a few hundred which went to top armor for the lightning , reduced acquisition timer rank 3, Rival chassi, rank 1 fire supression . Thats only like a few percent of all lightning upgrades, and while i dont plan to get them all there are still tons more for A vehicle. And with future plans of a few vehicles (i know buggies is close to the top of the list), more weapons, new abilities(MAX and LA are scheduled to gain a few) there is lots to spend on.

I think the best route though is to have things cross over. IF i buy reflex sights for my LMG, all LMG's have it. If i buy a mounted gun on a vehicle thats on most vehicles, why not have it as a discounted rate if i buy it for another vehicle(will make the leap of faith that the certs are for the new mounting bracket ).

I've been playing in my spare time since PS2 was officially released, and I haven't earned enough to buy a single 1000 cert weapon. Considering there are 5 classes, plus a ton of vehicles, I don't think I'll be maxing out anytime soon. Probably not even in the next decade. The sense of accomplishment is quickly wearing thin. The double XP actually gave me incentive to try saving up for one of the 1K weapons, rather than waste it on the garbage. But now with it back to standard XP, I don't feel much reason to play anymore.
So I definitely support them making the double XP amount the new standard.

I am calm and I don't even see what made you think that I am so incredibly angry, I sense some projection here. I'm not offended, you didn't say anything that can be classified as being offensive, however you were being a smart *** with that "detective" jab.

Don't get confused, I'm not here writing just to you, I'm writing for everyone to see because you just happen to the prime example of the loud fanboi majority that is talking out of it's ***, claiming things that are blatantly false and lying about their experience to prove their false arguments. So I shined a spotlight on you and the rest of your ilk, so everyone can see that you are in fact lying. Sorry if that made you upset.

I still stand by my point. The cert acquisition rate is absolutely way too slow, we need it to be faster because it will just simply drive away all casuals within the first few months, and I actually like this game, but I don't need it to replace my job.

It's supposed to be. How the hell else would they convince people to start paying?

Just remember that those 1000 cert weapons are still sidegrades. They aren't necessary. Don't put your focus on earning certs, play the game to have fun. Certs will come when they come. You can have an absolute blast with less than 200 certs put into a class. I think people are paying too much mind to "progression" and forgetting you're still playing an FPS where a nice burst from most guns is still going to kill you.

Yes, and you make it sound like it was something bad. I am playing Medic in PS2, but i very much would love to trade my Heal Aura for a Jump pack. Or my turret for a Jump pack as Engineer. Why? Because it allows a squad outfitted in a light assault role not to have to be deprived their medic or their infiltrator (for hacking) and the like.

The way it is, with the classes right now, is way to simplistic. A Light Assault Squad should be able to have a Medic being able to following them.

Also i would want my Medic to be able to equipt another utility item than just C4... or get some Smoke granades or Flashbangs. Or ... a Sensor Tool.

PS1 allowed you to be the class you wanted to be. If that happened to be a Heavy Assault with an Engineer tool? So what? PS1 forced you much more to specialize as PS2 does, while it at the same time gave you whatever you wanted. You had only so and so much cert points and couldn't unlock everything, but at least you could decide what you want to play and not be forced into a narrow mesh, because of your class choices.

And i can't be the only Combat Medic that would wish to be a bit less of an heal and rez bot and a bit more of a Combat role. I would most likely always play a Light Infantery, but i can very much see how people would like to go Heavy Medic. A Medic with a Heavy Assault shield.

Ever considered that people might be "hopping around" because there is a need for that role in their squad? Like when half the squad turns into MAX units to combat some Air threat, and all of the sudden there is a high demand for Engineers. By your logic people should probably suck it up and just keep playing Infiltrator and Heavy Assaults. People probably shouldn't have hopped into MAX units either.

Just because you play cameleon and respond to the need of the battlefield and your squad, depending on the situation, doesn't mean you are no team player or relying on your team. Maybe your team is relying on you being able to fullfill those roles and not just be a highly specced Heavy Assault when a Vehicle assault is needed. Or air support is needed.

I take offense at the notion that someone with an uncerted Healing Tool would be an effective Medic. Same goes with the Engineer. Without having them certed you are backup at best, but not effective. You can jump in in a pinch, but you are nowhere near as effective as anyone that has specced into it.

You are not going to combat repair a tank, before the enemy has rolled over you. Nor will you be able to get people back on their feet as fast as anyone that has certed into it.

You are not Effective. You are enough to fill in at a pinch, but thats about it. Which of course doesn't stop people from exp whoring themselves doing these jobs, because... well because the Cert system is moving at the snail pace as it is.

Since release, including a double weekend, i have made 2k Certs. It's been enough to specialize as Medic, and make myself not "god aweful" at a few other things. But i am not even useful in a tank. I would have to spend another 500 certs just to unlock the turret i would want for my lightning. And that doesn't even include the certs for defensive modules and a few other things. By the current model that would take me a week. Or 7 bucks, just to unlock the turret.

And mind you, as far as i am concerned, thats crawling speed. If i think it will take about another month just to outfit a lightning with one setup. Even if i cut down the time by a week, with buying the turret, it doesn't change the fact that it takes forever to get anything done in this game.

During the double Exp weekend, i finally felt like i was getting stuff done. And i wasn't trying to maximize my cert gain for a change. I played Dual Burster MAX for the first time because i felt like it and not because i felt like i had to, to keep my squadmate from being obliberated.

During this double exp weekend, i have done stuff i wouldn't have done otherwise, because i have to little time and it seems like i am getting nothing done.

I am currently sitting on 500 cert points. And i can't decide if i want to dump them into a Medic Tool 6 or actually get some upgrades for doing something else than just being a medic. And the reason why i haven't spend them yet, is that it takes a damn awefully long time to collect those certs. It actually takes so long that... as you pointed out.. people play for advancement in many games. And i am not advancing at a pace i consider "okay" or "reasonable". I am advancing at a pace i consider "slow" and a "grind". This does make people like me quit as well.