[Vehicle] Harassers go on killstreaks verse vehicles x4 less than tanks.

The point I was making was about survivability, not TTK.
To me, factoring the top guns is inviting discussion of TTK.
I'll do you one better by falling for the red herring. Say I include the DPS of the top gun AND that from friendlies in whatever hypothetical scenario (A Zerg vs. Zerg fight). Harassers will have certain hitpoints and on paper they die after a certain time assuming nobody misses. Same goes for Lightning and any other vehicle. To your point, yes, the paper calculation will benefit Lightnings and MBTs for sure.

In practice, however, Sunderers, Lightnings and MBTs are the first to die because they cannot effectively dodge shells aimed at them. Harassers, on the other hand, die later because of their dodginess. In fact, this dodginess can be soo effective that Harassers can become DPS sinks. If a fight cannot be won, Harassers more often than not have the option to retreat or otherwise escape by using turbo. MBTs and Lightnings (Magrider being a possible exception) seldom get this option because they are not as nimble. Oh! and don't forget directional armor!

Titan-150-AP requires five (5) shots to kill MBTs from the front. To do so from the side, four (4) shots, and from the rear, three (3) shots. Although, I have noticed that on VR training, you do get kills on the MBT dummies with 4 shots from the front. Last I checked, reload speed was 3.75 seconds, so nominally it takes 15 seconds to fire 4 times. By maxing out the reload speed, you can shave 1.5 seconds I think, so 13.5 seconds.

I don't have the Prowler's numbers handy, so no comment on that. Although, I will say from experience that as an MBT main, I feel more comfortable in a Vanguard vs. Vulcan Harasser scenario than in a Prowler vs. Mjolnir Harasser scenario. This is obviously because of the Vanguard shield and the extra 1000 hp. With Prowlers though, the name of the game is to avoid damage at all costs more so than my NC and VS counterparts. While I have melted Harassers before with P-120 AP + Gatekeeper, delivering said firepower is not reliable when the fight happens in rough terrain (such as on the slope of a mountain or hilly terrain).

Vanguard AP does 850 damage +50% base against tanks = 1275 per shot on front hits
4*1275 = 5100 damage

You also have the first shot already loaded, so to fire 4 times you only reload 3 times ~10.1 seconds(with upgrades)

What kind of nonsense is this? So now you're comparing a 2/3 haraaser to a 1/2 MBT?
This isn't that difficult and you don't have to add "random friends" around either. You simply do either 2 lightnings or a fully-manned MBT vs a harasser, that means the main cannons and topguns. You know, so the most important variable is the same (manpower).

The lightnings or MBT win everytime, unless there is a major skillgap.

I understand that the math is working itself out say four (4) shots from the front with Titan-150-AP should net an MBT kill. However, that is not what you will experience in the game. There is an additional multiplier that has an effect in-game that makes it so that you need 5 shots to kill MBTs from the front. Like I hinted with my comment about VR training, there is a mismatch between theoretical multipliers and "actual in-game" multipliers. Either that, or I already have dementia. You'll have to try it to see for yourself.

Regarding the reload comment, yes, you are correct, I forgot that the first shot is pre-loaded. My bad.

I see you pulled 1/2 and 2/3 out of an unspecified port.

I think I understand what you are saying and I did argue it in an earlier post.
I said something along the lines of "one seat on a Lightning or MBT unlocks more firepower than any one seat on the Harasser" or something like that. So, my guy, I actually have been agreeing with you on this point the whole time.

So, even if Lightnings and MBTs win every time, I don't see it as a problem because of the nanite price. Both are pricier than the Harasser anyway, so it is somewhat expected that tanks squash these things more often than the reverse case.

Why did you even say to factor top guns when I was just saying "to kill the beefiest Harasser I need 4 shots from Titan-150-AP" then?

You could have asked for other permutations to get that same kill. For example: 2 shots from both Titan-150-AP and E540-Halberd. Really any "x + y = 4" split where "x" could be hits from Titan-150-AP and "y" could be hits from E540-Halberd.

The math is 4 shots with Vanguard AP and as of half a minute ago it checks out in VR too so idk what to tell you, its 4 to kill Maggies and Prowlers from the front.

Harassers and lightnings both cost 300 now, harassers are weaker than lightnings and have been for awhile & take more people to use.

This is a thread about harassers and people try bringing up that harassers can survive a few MBT rounds, completly ignoring that MBTs also have a topgun to hit the harasser with. When you ignore half of the MBTs damage output it looks very disingenous about how tanky harassers actually are against MBTs.

For lightnings I can kind of get it, since lightnings and harassers are somewhat even against each other, even though the harasser needs twice the people to make it function. If you instead put those 2 people into a pair of lightnings, the solo lightning is now loosing everytime. It's kind of a problem with alot of multi-crew vehicles really, galaxys & sunderers being "the worst" uses of manpower.

I stand corrected regarding Harasser vs. Lightning price (I just checked in-game and indeed they cost the same at 300 nanites). Thanks.

I think you meant "the solo harasser" in your second paragraph. If so, that's fine in my opinion because in the 2 Lightnings vs. 1 Harasser scenario, the players pulling Lightnings spent a combined 600 nanites as opposed to the players pulling the Harasser who spent 300 nanites. To your point, however, in the 1 player vs. 1 player scenario, since Lightnings are 300 nanites now yeah, there is no point in pulling harasser as a solo or even as a duo.

Man, when did they lower the Lighning's price? Damn it Wrel. Last time I pulled a Lightning was years ago before I got my first ASP. Without the armor discount from ASP, there was a time when Lightnings costed 360 nanites (long ago). Back then, Harassers used to cost 200-250 (i.e., it made more sense to use them). I still think that Harassers are too tanky for their agility, but, I now have more sympathy for Harasser mains because of pricing. If harassers stay the same, then the nanite price should definitely go down, otherwise (I hate to say this) they should be buffed. As I am an MBT purist, I prefer the former option.

You dont need to feel bad for Harasser mains, if they have half a brain they will just pull unlimited Harassers from a construction base 'for free' just like the Lightning mains do.

Edit: or pool their combined 1500 nanites and 100-150+ per minute income if they really want to pull from normal bases.

True.

Tangent!
Any ideas why the devs don't let us do the same with MBTs/Liberators?
I think they just hate the "heavy" vehicles.

I have some replies to read. However from playing right now. I'm tired of dying to magriders who I'm not able to outrun, I should have x2 the amount of turbo!!

Verse infantry, you're instantly gonna have 4 to 10 to 20 infantry shoot you, the only harasser driving around, instantly they all shoot you.

I'm VERY done with dying from stupid AV mines. SO OVER THAT.
You drive too fast for the Hud to see them & even if the hud seems them I'm tired of not being allowed to drive somewhere. Literally dying to AV mines as a harasser x20 times more than a tank is.

Not able to run away from tanks without hitting av mines, not able to run down lanes without hitting av mines, not able to swerve around enemy sunderers without hitting them, not able to go damn a down hill without hitting them. F AV mines.

My NC alt doesn't even have sweeper hud implant right now, tho even with my VS main, I still hit them way too often. They are a extreme counter to harasser, when already everything is out to kill you.

Harasser literally dies from everything.

& the worst thing is, wth is speed good for?! I'm not even able to to outrun a magrider, or most sniper tanks. Not even able to out-run a freaking Ant.

As for verse infantry? I feel as weak as a Max. Harasser is literally a Max on wheels, who hits AV mines more. Every Heavy Assualt shoots your with launchers. Barely even have the dps to kill a parked sunderer with deploy shield, don't even break the sunderers deploy shield before a Magrider chases me.

As for the guy saying just pull infinite harassers, that's only you build a term near some farm. Not for most situations. It's not similar to a air term, where the esf pilots easily flies over 4 mountain vistas within a few seconds. So no most harasser drivers are not using vehi terms.

Right now Harassers are worth 100 nanites, they die as fast as my flash does. & this is someone who's been driving longer than everyone. Wouldn't imagine what a amatuer driver has happen.

I use racer slot for NC alt, tho my VS main only enjoys using daredevil. So far not able to out-run tanks with either. Nor am I able to enjoy fighting infantry on TI Hills without hitting a mine all the time & having 20 soldiers shoot you as they know Harassers are made out of paper.

The only time I find fighting harassers annoying is if I'm in a sunderer, tho my sunderers isn't a fan of tanks either, so sunderer battle bus solo gameplay is just flawed generally without support. Till as I said the sunderer gets some net snare ability that snares from far away, giving them enough time to escape.

IMO when Harassers had Rumble Seat repairs, we stood toe to toe with MBT's TOE 2 TOE. Equals. Never OP. Just equal. Now a Harasser has to out manuever using x10 the skill of a tank driver & x400 of the skill of a mine layer, just to manage.

Also theirs the fact that Harasser is barely fun to drive without Daredevil and daredevil isn't fast enough, as I said Racer isn't fast enough.

They should make Sweeper hud display mines from farther away, so going at top speeds won't get you killed before they display. & then buff harasser speeds to 20mph+ to 140 mph from 120mph. & give more turbo too, since the acceleration speed isn't fast enough to escape Magriders.

& to those who just say " Just play Halberd " What if you're bored of Halberd? You know how close I have to get to use Fury & Bulldog, almost knife distance at times.

" Heres a vehicle that is mostly entertaining for the driver to bum rush enemies, since the driver isn't able to shoot anything" " Hey lets give players AV mines which nearly instantly kill a harasser everytime " " Brilliant "

I get that people won't want a hp buff for far range 2nd gunner weapons. Such as Halberd.

However using Fury, Bulldog, and more melee range 2nd gunner guns. Besides Vulcan, tho for sure Fury & Mljornir, would perhaps advice some +HP boosts for those guns.

Mljornir is so weak verse infantry.

Nanites only serve to punish bad play or being put into unforunate situations, so it's not uncommon for good players to be at max nanites anyway when they do die. You should generally just ignore nanite costs in balance discussions and instead focus on the stats of the platforms weapons, how the plaftorm handles, any unique abilites it has & how many people it takes to function well.

No, I meant that in a manned harasser versus a solo lighting (so a 2v1), it's pretty even in power despite the harasser needing the extra person. It's not uncommon for either side to win, mostly depending on the skill of both parties. If instead you put the 2 harasser players into 2 lightnings or even a manned mbt (so still a 2v1), the solo lightning will have to massive, massively outskill the 2 players to win and it should normally be a auto victory for the 2.

The harasser just doesn't have the firepower for it's cost in people anymore, so much so that one of the best way to kill MBTs is to use the backseat to deliver c4 instead. As for buffs, we can start with making the topguns as strong as the MBT versions, since they are still nerfed from when the harasser was better and before CAI which nerfed topguns against most things.