[Vehicle] Harassers go on killstreaks verse vehicles x4 less than tanks.

Harrassers get killstreaks x4 less than tanks. Often times the best harasser drivers on the server die without a single kill. When harassers do get killstreaks 80% of the time it's verse infantry & not vehicles.

This trend has been this way since rumble repairs were taken away.
Also since outfit wars more people use mines, more people use heavy assault launchers. & now you have anti material rifles as well.

Overall I find harassers very weak. The only time I see them as " pro " is verse a Collosus since collosus is slow at shooting. So a harasser is tough to hit.

For all other regular situations, the harasser seems weak these days.
The main thing is theirs tons of tank drivers who got better at aiming their tank guns, tho the skill lvl for dodging bullets as a harasser driver has limits.

So even as the best harasser driver dodging tank shells only happens at far range where the harasser isn't even good at killing things. Less your using halberd for far range tho that gun is overplayed. For example my favorite Harasser gun is the Fury, however you know how close I have to get to use that gun? Literally 10 feet away.

You know how often you " dodge " tank shells at 10 feet away? Barely ever. Many times you don't even dodge HA launchers hitting your tail. Then add the fact that if you have sweeper hud, harasser still hits mines more often than tanks do, since you're driving faster.

The solution? Would giving harassers 500 more hp help with dueling tanks? I wouldn't say so.
Suggest make harassers drive faster, drift, or have longer duration of turbo to juke tanks at short range.

Often times a harasser seems weaker than a battle bus for dueling tanks tbh. & a battle bus isn't fine tuned.

Are harassers good at Hossin? Heck no.
Are harassers good at the Crown? Heck no.
Are harassers out juking tank shells at Saerro tower? nope, not when it matters at medium range. less you're running away over hills as your only advantage.
Are harassers having enough room on Oshurs islands to dodge tanks? no.
Are harassers able to storm past bridges on Oshur? no.
Are harassers good at tech plant lanes? not really

So the only thing a harasser excels at, is hit on runs verse infantry, till the infantry quickly starts to mine the area soon after. Or hit & runs verse collosus. However my collosus have gotten killed from a flash a few times, so that isn't saying much. For many regions harasser is too weak verse tank lines.

1) The Valkyrie is the weakest vehicle of the game, only strong for 1-12 low pop regions. Gets shot down everywhere else. Valk troop transport is if Galaxy performs that role. Suggested a attack helicopter mode for my roadmap thread.

2) The Harasser is 2nd weakest, isn't dodging tank pros, less and less every month. Aim improvements outshine driving improvements. Extra turbo perhaps. Where's the gear shift, where's the Tokyo drifts?

3) The Battle bus requires something, for dueling tanks on the go, slot devoted to dueling sniper
tanks. Blockade isn't good enough for traveling battle bus verse tanks. & Sunderer isn't able to run away from a tank or harasser ever, so requires a new ability that " snares " ties down a perusing enemy vehicle. Similar to a " bear trap ".

Lightnings go on killstreaks verse vehicles x3 more than Harassers & MBT's go on killstreaks x4.
So why is something that requires 2 people & is the same price as a Lightning performing so bad?
Obviously the travel speed is not making up for the fact that every fool enemy is able to damage your ride with rifle fire.

Are Harassers good at the Ascent? no. forgot to list.

So for all the mid regions of every map. Harassers are weaker than tanks.
Ascent, Crown, Eisa, Nasons, Excavation.

Ascent has road lanes so yes harassers are weak.
Crown has hills you nearly flip over at and road lanes for tanks to excel.
Eisa has road lanes for half of the region.
Nasons is the worst for harassers for vehicle duels, its ok verse infantry till they start setting mines.
Oshur Excavation is ok, islands don't have a ton of room, no hills, it's still sniper tank territory. & the occasional falling off a ledge. Plus bridge fights aren't harassers forte either.

I wouldn't ask for more hp, infantry verse harasser is fair game.

Just something that gives harasser pros more opportunity to dodge the increasing levels of aim improvements, that lightnings and mbt's have. So yes a 2nd turbo bar or drift energy.

Where do you get these numbers? 4x less? Is that just your inability to use Harassers without cheese?

no no you dont get it. see, a DRIVER doesnt get the kills in a harasser, therefore harasser drivers dont go on kill streaks therefore harrasers are so weak.

lets just choose not to bring up the kills/stats with the halberd or the vulcan though. ruins the narrative.

Where? I just proved Harassers aren't winning at Mid Farms. Due to them being laned road regions. Please show me the stats on how effective a harasser is running down the Ascent road near B.

I was on my nc alt at a Quartz Ridge tank fight yesterday, guess how many Harassers their were? One.
Guess how many magriders their were? 20.
How many lightnings? 20.
How many vanguards? 10.
Sunderers? 20

So for a known tank fight, only one guy pulls a harasser & I killed him with my vanguard. The rest are road magriders I'm dueling, peek a boo style near the Quartz ridge vehicle term road. Else Magriders on the hill above. Many magriders with killstreaks. Zero harassers.

What about behind TI yesterday? Where when you peak your Mljornir Harasser out of the hillside north of TI. Every VS running up that hill shoots my harasser to 40% hp as soon as possible. Within 4 seconds I'm down to 40% hp. *Peak to see* *20 guys shoot at me everytime*. So not good there. Was non stop repairing before scoring a single kill.

Till I got bored of repairing & trying to let my 2nd gunner peek shoot. You eventually just want to throw 2 of your harassers down hill, try to run over someone, all the enemies shoot you, & you die from a mine or infantry fire, before driving past their parked bus.

What about for a vehi term to road TI fight, where we own TI & have a road blockade, with enemy tanks & infantry who own the bridge & grassfields? Is my harasser able to juke past the road much? Not really, either die from mines even with sweeper hud. Or get chased down by a magrider if you try to run past them for the grass way. It's not impossible, you may go the long way for the grass field with a long range weapon, tho eh, not as exciting at trying to juke past the road.

I don't die from Vulcan much, only my sunderer does, not my tanks. Yet sunderers die from everything anyways. Halberd is boring to play at this rate & what driver wants to sit on a hill and let their gunner snipe without driving past enemies.

Those long range Harasser guns are only good at Watersons or the ice lake, been there done that. I wouldn't say Saerro is that great for Harassers either, seeing as most tanks there have side roads to hide them & driving the snow hills will just get you HA locked on.

What about Fury, Bulldog, Pariah, Mljornir, Aphelion, G30 Walker, Palisade, Marauder?
Also Halberd equivalents are easy to out repair.

The truth is tanks are good at all environments. While harassers are only good at open fields. & fail at lanes, roads, bridges, & narrow land. & a driver finds hill sniping too boring, so harasser is considered mid range.

As for sunderer verse harasser? well new player sunderers should just be given at least one free turret that isn't a basilisk to defend themselves with. They give MBT's a free 2ndary turret, why not sunderer new players who need a defensive turret more?

P.s. & Ye I want some extra Harasser ability to make driving more thrilling after all these years. While still keeping turbo too. Both.

Stats for who dies from mines more, harassers or tanks? Harassers do.

Stats for who dies from infantry more? Obviously Harassers.

Stats for who fails at mid region farms more? Harassers.

Stats for who you see with killstreaks less for the hour, harassers or lightnings? Harassers.

Stats for who you see less of at a MBT verse MBT mega battle, lightning or harasser? Harasser.

Stats for which vehicle requires 2 people to even go on a killstreak? lighting, mbt, or harasser? Harasser.

Stats for which land vehicle takes longer for a new player to get good with? Harasser.

Stats for which land vehicle is less played overall? Harasser.

I don't get a OP logic. Basically, a harasser should not be able to handle a tank. Especially in solo. Distraction, hit&run - obviously. But taking out a MBT with a car that can be taken from any scrapyard?

Harrassers overtuned in game reality because of their role.

With gate shield diffuser it capable of flipping Vanguard, which is frustration.

It should be anti-infantry vehicle with limited AT capabilities, and utilities to enhance and support infantry by providing ammo and AOE heal.

If, and only if, Sunderer price now matches MBT price, or MBT price is lowered to match Sunderer's. Tanks are soo overpriced.
Firstly, they have directional armor, which makes it so that certain engagements are pathetically lost to Sunderers and sometimes Harassers. Secondly, C4 can take out a tank while costing 1/3 (33%) the MBT's price and 3/7 (43%) a Lightning's price. Its worse with mines, with the ratios dropping to 2/9 (22%) and 2/7 (29%) respectively. Against Sunderers, these price ratios are between 75% and 112% (depending on blockade armor) and 50%, respectively. Also, this "snares" ability would soo benefit the Zerg. The reason sniper tanks are a thing is because individual players cannot take on the Zerg head on. Sniping from a far is the only recourse for some players.

By that logic, at some point we're going to have a problem when the tank pros become proficient enough at sniping ESF. To me this reads (and I'm not asserting that you are implying), like you can't cope with people being able to hit harassers?

Tell that to A2G ESF who don't use Hornets.

If, and only if, Harassers now get directional armor just like tanks.

Welcome to the club! I'm sure most MBT, Lightning, and Sunderer mains will sympathize with you, I mean it. That's just infantry being OP. It used to not be this way, but, unfortunately, over the years infantry have been buffed to the point where they are a counter to armor (and harassers). It is worst when one fights VS because Lancer/Vortex griefers could full-salvo a Harasser for sure. I have first-hand experienced my MBT gameplay shut down while driving a Vanguard and especially while driving a Prowler (which doesn't have a shield) by what you're describing here. Infantry are overstepping their bounds for sure and deserve to be farmed as punishment. What pisses me off the most, are the AMR griefers, who will just plink you, and it does hurt a lot for all tanks that aren't the Vanguard (latter can buff it out with Nimitz usually).

Why would anyone even attempt this? I certainly wouldn't attempt such a risky pull even with a Vanguard. For starters, do©l-l€b@g$ like myself love to place tank mines down the ramps of contested bases. Secondly, you're describing a Zerg. Unless you have an OS, the only winning move is to play elsewhere.

Directional armor. While they repair, line up shots on their side or rear.

This is fake news (unless we're assuming all engagements are head-on always). Don't forget about cover, which proficient Harassers can use to cheese all tanks except semi-pro Magriders (those guys turn that thing into the "Heavy Harasser"). At longer ranges and in open fields, tanks are just big targets that Harasser gunners can plink with relative ease.

Regarding the complaint about terrain, I am 100% with you. The tendency for these maps to funnel ground units through chokepoints (i.e., all maps without exception are custom built for Magrider and A2G) is something that all ground vehicle mains hate (except, ofcourse Magrider and Javelin mains). This "funneling" is what makes Harasser mains run into MBTs and Lightning at close (often point-blank) range. Not enough portions of the map consist of open fields. Wrel didn't help the Harasser crowd much with Oshur's water, which makes Harassers float slower than what they can run on ground.

I just spent about 30 minutes playing harasser vs vanguard at the ascent last night. Lot of dead vanguards. I think they are fine.

Must have been some noob vanguards. lol what are you talking about, nobody is owning MBT's mid of Ascent. Less your facing extreme noobs & even then meh. Tho kudos if you happened to, it's still not general gameplay.

Where are you driving? Are you trying to tell me that MBT's are losing to you on a narrow road??
Ye drive down the B road with 2 waves of tanks facing either side & tell me how much a harasser " owns ascent ".

With prowlers taking podshots as they inch their shells over the hill, facing down. Or some silo base owns the bottom end of the hill.

You'll die before you even get half way no matter your juking skills, if the mines don't get you first. & if you peek a boo shoot the road with the side corners of the hill, strafing to move & shoot. You're still weaker at doing that then a tank.

Then take the Lithcorp road & you'll be outmatched verse any MBT who isn't a severe noob. & end up having to throw yourself off a cliff, taking 3 min to find a hill road and drive all the way to the top of Lith road again.

Ye you can swerve around the forest around the tower area and bunker of B, if no medium level infantry aren't scorching the place. Either way that isn't amazing, less like I said you're fighting extreme amateurs.

I'm the best daredevil driver of US west, theirs nothing new to learn here. Done flips most haven't.
Have even thrown many sunderers off the ledge from Ascent's vehi term garage to Rockslide & landed them many times while they tumbled the whole time.

As for Aris's reply. The only thing I have to say is, I never noticed how using a Vanguard to fight a Magrider, while the enemy magrider is faced frontward, it's as if I'm trying to hit a wienerschnitzel truck. My side armour shots are missing & flying over the magrider. So magriders get a unfair advantage by having such skinny to low shoulder armour. I have to hit their center & nowhere else. I.E. Frontward facing they are a needles strafe hovering over hills & aren't a box on wheels.

The only harassers that are generally going on killstreaks averagely verse enemy tanks, are those who travel in packs of 2. Yet guess what, tanks are able to travel in packs too.

As for most many vehicles verse many vehicle fights, theirs gonna be 20 tanks for every 2 harassers. That's proof enough on the state of harassers for vehicle fights.

Although I am not a "pro" and joining conversation late, I agree that harassers are mostly are low key farm opportunities specially against tanks.
Right after they "nerfed" backseat repair where you can literally hop on ur 3rd seat and quick rep while maintaining some momentum and your gunner shooting stuff, right now the 3 seat in harasser is for taxi only which is basically useless, unless you run c4 up close and personal which is pretty rare and depends mostly on the enemy awareness.
Also funny thing is, you need to be very lucky to get or have good gunner regardless if you can communicate or not. I run harasser with my outfit buddy when we get to group up , other than that you need to be very lucky to have a decent gunner with good awareness.
Harasser doesn't lack in terms of damage its just gets very overshadowed by tanks (since its a glass cannon in this class) and infantry where they can easily kill since you are susceptible to small arms damage ( thanks to composite nerf ages ago).

Speaking of damage, face tanking tanking shell like AP round is not an issue in 1v1 engagement since its more acceptable in this 1v1 scenario but hey, winner is still a winner regardless how much HP u got left if your target is toast. 1vX scenario is different since you need to make your self an advantage to make situation more fare towards yourself, like using terrain as an example. Regardless which scenario it is, you still need to have a mindset of "Don't play hard, play smart" specially if you are a driver in a glass canon. I am very reluctant fighting TR Kingsnake even in 1v1 since its busted as hell currently in terms of damage. Its full "4 round swing" does 1400 and thats literally 56% of harasser's 2500 hp pull, add to that Halberd's 24% and your *** is already on fire in the first 2 second of the engagement....
Magi can suck if they are good at mid range sniping so most common strat is to get up close and personal, as long as you dont get in front of it, you are basically have 1 less enemy gun to worry about.
Vanguard is a turtle but a tanky a one, so wait for shield to drop and it becomes Lightning with a extra gunner.

I usually prefer to avoid close confrontation with vehicle zerg and snipe from far since its a safe bet. On EU zergs are usually braindead zergs where you got vehicle overpop and 1-2 rep sundies on VERY rare occasions but they can still be focused down from distance.

Funny enough ANT have 4000 hp as base, similar if not faster speed with chassis + turbo combo and mount most of the harasser guns, but a slightly bigger target. Another fun fact, with harasser ramming is mostly pointless unless its harasser VS harasser engagement where you will deal good damage depending on your speed of course BUT not take full chunk in one ram, on the other hand with turbo-ANT you can actually ram Lightnings to death, works on Vanguards and Prowlers (not anchored) but less damage, same with Magrider if can actually catch that thing. Harassers can get clapped in one ram with decent speed. Tried to ram aircraft when its reachable, oneshots ESF easy when they panic and dont have time to dodge, dumb idea but its does work...
Additionally with same turbo-ant you can get up to a places like top of Hossin mountains, and on top of some tree's if you balance enough and dont screw up turbo timing where you have all 4 wheels on surface and face the direction you wana go.

I think the nerf of 3rd seat was unnecessary and dropped harasser from being a quite dangerous nuisance for tanks and infantry to just being a nuisance for both...

Yes! I deal with this every time I fight Magriders. Unfortunately you have to aim for center of mass always for your shots on a Magrider to reliable hit. In a head-on fight, there is no such thing as landing side/rear shots on a Magrider. I guess you can if they attempt to retreat, but otherwise, Magriders will only take front armor damage.

Regarding strafing, that is soo strong when fighting from cover. This is because Magriders expose not just a very small profile out of cover, but also face their front to the enemy. Prowlers and Vanguards can only emulate strafing by turning their side armor to the enemy and then just moving back and forth. This is risky, but at long range it works rather well. Anyhow, regarding peeking, the problem with this technique, is that both Prowler and Vanguard can start exposing part of their profile before making room for the turret to fire. This hinders the Vanguard because its turret is on the middle of the chassis. It doesn't matter which direction I peek out of cover from, my front or rear sticks out before I can shoot. In that time, I can get hit by a Magrider or Prowler and they can go back to cover. Prowler's turret is almost flush with its rear, so the Prowler pros like to peek by moving rearwards out of cover.

For me, what is worse is that Magriders don't make contact with ground. So, some of the shots that I have practiced from 3rd-person don't apply to Magriders (I miss because I can't generalize my crosshair placement in 3rd-person to Magriders). Also, Magriders are the only "MBT" without a turret.

I think this is true. But that is more of a reflection on the fact that tanks can unlock more firepower per crew member than harassers. For instance, the driver in a harassers just controls the vehicle, whereas the driver in an MBT/Lightning does that and also controls the main gun. So in a number of players sense, in a 1 vs. 1 a Harasser cannot even hurt an MBT/Lightning (unless they do the clientside physics engine glitch).

But, its ok for it to be this way (multiple harassers needed to deal with one MBT) because that maintains fairness in terms of nanite cost. For roughly the same nanites, a "fully enabled" harasser (i.e., driver + gunner) can in fact 1 vs. 1 a lightning. Nominally, I don't think its ok for a harasser to 1 vs. 1 an MBT (300 nanites vs. 450 nanites), and this is rarely the case. With the Vanguard and a competent gunner, I have been able to win in 1 vs. 2 harassers (shield being OP of course). With Prowler, this is harder to do but still possible. This status quo goes against my claim of fairness (450 nanites vs. 600 nanites), but to correct that harassers would have effectively become a tank of their own.

True, no question. But again, I think this is a reflection of tanks empowering individual players much more than any one seat on the Harasser. For players to use harassers effectively, well, they need to get a buddy (let alone a random who's probably a scrub infiltrator that will draw the attention of Liberators).

It might be because I play on console, but Harassers are pretty good where they are as long as you have a competent gunner. Solo harassing is pretty much useless unless you use a Halberd.

If you play by the rules of a Harasser being a quick in-and-out vehicle, you can usually get a kill on nearly anything as long as they're smoking when you approach. 1v1 and 2v2 fights are nearly impossible unless you have range and they're a bad shot, but then again, they put in the nanites for an MBT whereas the nanites for a Harasser cost less.

Just support your tanks and you'll do fine. Distract an MBT when you see a team-mate driving to engage, then boost away. If you see heavy enemy smoke over a few hills, rush them. Leave 2-3 tank mines clustered in a nearby heavy traffic area and when you see them go off with hit markers, rush to them. Use caltrops in a likely getaway spot.

1 out of every 10 Harasser drivers are good, and 1 out of every 5 gunners are as well.

On a personal note, the one upside to Oshur being the only map on console, vehicle directives are super easy, I've almost auraxiumed my Harasser. And I thought Harassers were great before I discovered rumble seat repairs.

Sorry, but this is the worst misunderstanding in vehicle balance i've seen in a while. Are you maybe talking about uncerted solo Valks? Because the only vehicles that can kill coordinated Valk crews in a 1vs1 are manned Galaxies (if the Gal isn't fighting one Ultra-Valk with Strikers on board). In chaotic live server fights the Valk gets only stronger. Tanks and Harassers are breakfast for a Valk.

The Harasser on the other hand is really weak. (It's AV power is above an uncloaked Flash and that's it.)

The reason you think the Harasser is weak is because you are judging it by its DPS rather than by what its strengths are, namely speed/evasion and durability.

And yes I can already hear people laugh "Harassers are not durable! lol! they have so little health!"
Yeah but they have so amazing damage resistance that more than makes up for their lack of raw health and yet another misplaced belief of a seemingly large part of the playerbase is that the only viable defense slot on a Harasser is Stealth, probably because they dont think going from 2500 to 3000 makes any difference which yeah kinda true if it was not for the damage resistance putting insane value on any health you can get.

Lots of people compare a Harassers health with the Lightning, Harasser has 2500 and Lightning has 4000 so obviously the Harasser is much weaker. I wish.


5 Lightning AP shots to kill a 3000 health Harasser with Fire Suppression.
5 Lightning AP shots to kill a 5000 health MBT.

Damage resistance, its a thing.
Sure the Harasser is barely alive after the 4th shot but if they get repairs on it that does not change anything, you need to hit it again or they will just zoom off again in a second or two(the BENEFIT of having low health, very fast repairs). A MBT on its last legs is not going anywhere even if the crew pops out to repair it and 99/100 it still explodes after one or two shots at it being stationary.

Is this a good time to bring up directional damage to show where it takes less shots to kill a MBT than a Harasser? no?.. ok, next time then(Harasser literally taking 80% less damage from a tank shell compared to a tank hit from behind, just small numbers).

You should probably compare it to two lightnings or a single MBT, since the harasser needs 2 people actually operate well.

Pretty sure I did compare it with a MBT.

Though the # crew argument is not a good one either way, even a MBT does not really measure up to 2 Lightnings. More damage and much more health with 2 Lightnings so yes, in most situations it would be better to have 2 Lightnings instead of a crewed MBT. The advantage that a lot of people dont like to see with the Harasser is that the crew requirement is there but its not like you need a super skilled gunner for it to operate well and unlike the case with Lightnings or MBT is that the Harasser does offer something the Lightning/MBT does not which is much higher speed.

A Harasser is much more likely to be able to survive going behind enemy lines than any tank because when the tanks gets caught in combat they struggle to disengage. Directional damage, lack of speed and all that so there are definitely situations a Harasser is just "the better option". Even if it was a bit less tanky it would still have that advantage.

Straight facts right here.

To add to your previous comment: It will take 3 shots from Titan-150-AP to kill a harasser with composite armor. If said harasser also uses Fire Suppression, I will need a 4th shot to get the kill. For comparison, a Lightning takes four (4) shots from the front, three (3) from the side, and also three (3) from the rear, albeit, its on fire in this last case. When the lightning also uses fire suppression, the shots to kill never exceed four (4) at least in my recent memory. So, harassers can actually, at worse, be as beefy as a lightning, and at best, they might as well be an MBT once you factor the shots missed due to their agility.

It'd able to survive sure, but it's not going to be able to kill 2 lightnings, or even 1. It would end up in a draw because the harassser guns just aren't that good anymore.

You have to outskill a manned MBT pretty hard to kill it with a harasser, since the main gun & topguns can shred a hasser so much faster than a harraser gun can to an MBT.

Did you forget to add the MBT topguns into that damage? Try again lmao

Generally Harassers always have FS so it feels fair to say that even the Titan-150 AP needs 4 hits to kill a Comp armor Harasser since it 'only' does 1020 damage per shot against them so a Harasser could pop FS after 2 hits and land around 1335 to survive the 3rd shot, forcing the 4th.

Against tanks 4 shots of Titan-150 AP is 5100 damage as minimum(front hits).
Both Magriders and Prowlers rarely use FS since their specific abilities are simply much stronger than gaining ~750 health.

So Harassers with Comp armor + FS = 4 hits
Lightning = 4 hits
Maggies/Prowlers = 4 hits

I know you did not really disagree but Comp armor Harasser is most of the time as tanky or tankier than a MBT depending on the directional damage the tank gets slapped with and I want to make it very clear that this is the case.

Also worth mentioning that 150 AP shooting 4 times takes at minimum 10 seconds and change just from the reload alone fully upgraded. Give a Harasser 10 seconds and its probably not in view anymore even if you try to chase it with a Vanguard.




There is a problem with balancing/nerfing the Harasser more though, because not all factions are created equally.
Prowler AP as a random example for no reason at all: 720 damage per shot against a Harasser, fires twice = 1440 damage per reload.

...and it obviously comes with 2 loaded, upgrade reload speed and pop Barrage and the reload is like 2.7 seconds(delays included) and we end up with a Prowler being able to do 2880 damage with a single reload in about 2.7 seconds. A non-Comp Harasser with FS should get ~2875 health.

Even the Comp Harasser only gets 3375 health meaning ~2.7 seconds later 2 more shots comes flying, doing 720 each and just one of them hitting = 3600 damage which obviously is enough to kill even the Comp Harasser + FS combo. That took maybe 6-7 seconds and the Prowler even had 1 shot in reserve to use if it misses.

Basically, you dont want to be fighting Prowlers with a Harasser unless you have very good cheese advantages and nerfing the Harasser to make it less obnoxious for other factions might make it unviable against TR(if it isnt already ofc since if we add in a gunner in the Prowler, not even the Comp+FS Harasser lives after the first reload, Harasser dead in ~3 seconds.. Prowlers man).