[Vehicle] The harasser imbalance

The volcan is just the current flavor of the month, boy i can tell you all about the time when it was the vs sauron for the longest time(i think that's what it's called). Before that it was the halbert. If you recall it was garbage for the longest time and they recently buffed it to be marginally better than the other two, it you try to roll up on one and expect to steamroll it you're in for a rude awakening. One of the guns will be better than the others and so what, our tank isn't that very good against other MBTs IMO so people pull more harassers.

If you find it frustrating that something can roll up on you and there's nothing you can do about it then let me tell you a little something about the vanguard who get a literal "I-Win" button, or magriders who can climb mountains. The Tr vulcans high risk high reward is the best way of dealing with such BS tank abilities.

This "flavor of the month" has been this powerful for 3 years, and the only reason why I cant say more years than that is because voidwell doesnt go any further back.

Also the last time the Saron outperformed the Vulcan was during the early days of the game when it was an anti-tank sniper. Dont get me wrong the Saron is an incredibly potent weapon right now, but compared to the ease of use and power of the Vulcan its not very good.

Naturally after your first misstep where you proclaim 3+years of 2 to 5 times better performance is just "a flavor of the month" you then make peace with the insanity and continue with things like how the Vanguard shield is an Iwin button (hint: only when fighting lemmings) and ignore the ludicrous power and ease of use that the Prowler offers.

Aphelion is the same thing.

No way! 99.99% of players don't know how to shoot wave/blasts. They use Aphelion just like Vulcan

Agreed. DBG should change the mechanics of the Aphelion so those 99.99% can make it work.

Then there are some than know how to use it but can't be bothered with constantly raising and lowering a finger every 6 shots just to eek out a little more DPS. F that. It's hard enough to focus on everything else going on without managing that as well. I want to press the button to fire and thats it.

there is a video that shows how aphelion is can be used like a vulcan above or below a certain distance... if i rember correctly only when you are really close you advantage from the release mechanic

It is the flavor of the month, and when the gatekeeper was introduced THAT was the flavor of the month for the longest time. Only after several nerfs and a complete overhaul of its mechanics did players go back to the vulcan. How well is the gatekeeper performing now compared to the saron or the enforcer? The vulcan is with out a doubt the best in its role, like the NCs MAX was undisputed king in close quarters, it a little faction variation you had to take into account depending on who you were fighting.

As for the tank comments, I was trying to point out that the harrasser is the Trs best way to combat enemy tanks because ours constantly is outplayed by the other two. Nerfing the vulcan would significantly marginalize Tr vehicle play, name any other Tr gun that clearly outperforms the other two? I'm more akin to buffing the other two closer to vulcan levels.

So the reason it wasn't the flavor of the month was because the TR temporarily got something that was even more powerful? This also doesn't really change anything about 3+years of the Vulcan outperforming the other weapons 2 to 5 times. Also now that you mention the undisputed king of CQC, how is it going with the NC MAX these days? He's quite disputed because he's got less range, more RNG, more spread, higher punishment for misses and that's in it's ideal range.
And can you tell me how much less the Vulcan was underperforming during the Gatekeeper's reign of terror? You can't right? Because you are pulling stuff out of your rear?

And lastly you think the Prowler, which has been the "flavor of the month" MBT since forever, is inferior to the Magrider and the Vanguard? Just because you personally suck driving the Prowler does not mean that the Prowler is inferior!

On the Harasser, the Saron is pulled more often than the others - but still a drop in the ocean compared to the number of Vulcan harassers: https://voidwell.com/ps2/oracle?sta...,6121&startDate=2019-05-24&endDate=2019-06-24

In terms of how they perform, they are remarkably similar - although the Enforcer is a touch lower than GK and Saron.

So that appears to be a job well done(ish) by DBG.


Compare that to the pre-nerf GK stats. It was absolutely ridiculous. You had a render range killing machine that the enemy can't even see let alone hit. This was the only period when Vulcan usage dropped.

Love the incredible bias you have, nerf my vulcan which is performing well for 3 years but not my MAX suit that has had the VAST majority of infantry kills for the past 6 years, no that's a niche faction role. The Scythe out performing the other two, no **** that. The Tr excelling at hit and runs? Nerf that to the ground!

Oh and please do tell me just how so much better the prower is, its double barrels is nothing but a detriment. It used to be off set by the old siege mode but that got nerfed. It used to have an edge with HEAT/ HESH rounds able to kill infantry better than the other two tanks, that also was nerfed. Tank on Tank combat I would LOVE a vanguard

But this is what sony and now daybreak does, they look at what's pissing off the community this month and nerf it, I have no doubt they will nerf the vulcan again if it gives them enough of a head ache on the forums then people will complain about what replaces it. As for NC MAX suits I was fine with them they way they were, post slug nerf, I've had 6 years to just accept them and the nerf was out of the blue in my eyes.

Look I'm not here saying that the vulcan isn't really great at what it does, because it does. Miles ahead

What I am saying is that there should be faction differences in that a particular side is just going to have a real advantage in some field. People don't like the homogenized over use of NS weapons daybreak keeps pushing, they wan't faction specific and if every faction specific gun performs like every other factions then they might as well be NS weapons.

I consider Vulcan Harasser the MOST dangerous vehicle in game. If that Har has 3 players it is almost invincible.
The proper usage of Har+Aphelion can compete Har+Vulcan, but requires MORE skill from Vanu's pilot and gunner than corresponding TRs.
Recenly I've been in a 3 members squad of VS veteran players (BR 100+). During the single session (e.g. 1 spawn) we have destroyed approx 30 TR vehicles mostly naive prowlers and vulcan harassers without dying. But this is veteran squad with deep voice coordination.
I think Vulcan can be nerfed to be the same level like Aphelion (e.g. minimum skill threshold should be raised).

I think you're missing the initial point of this entire post, which was that the there is NO field where the mjolnir outperforms, from point blank all the way out to range it is just flat out worse, significantly so, because of the damage delivery method, the ONLY way it ever does the "NC do big damage" faction perk thing is if you find someone afk in a large vehicle. So you argue to keep faction flair, I'm cool with that, I agree, I dont want the Vulcan nerfed, my question to you is, you have yours, where is the NC's, because it sure isnt hitting hard statistically.

Ah and so it begins, you've already invented the first argument for me! I've already reported before how the Scythe's profile for example is vastly superior to that of the other two factions. But here you are saying that somehow I find the Scythe to be A-OK.

As for the NC MAX, I've proposed changes to it before that sacrificed damage for range, or giving the other two factions shotguns as well just so they would shut up about it. But what we got was basically a quadruple-nerf where solid slugs were removed, pellets were removed, damage was reduced and the fire rate was reduced.
And again according to your logic, shouldn't the NC MAX be an indication that the Vulcan should be nerfed into the ground as well? Sounds fair doesn't it? Ofcourse that doesn't sound fair to you because TR needs to be on top.

Like the Magrider it's not about listing things that you think are a detriment to the vehicle, it's about what the vehicle actually achieves. And the numbers tell us that the Prowler scores the most vehicle kills for example.
The double barrels are a huge advantage to the Prowler. The recoil is so minimal that you can hit a MAX at 100+m twice without the recoil throwing you off (try it in the VR). The two shots allow you to dial in the shell drop to an opponent and how much you need to lead them, meaning you get to hit the target sooner and more effectively than your opponents. You get punished for misses less and due to the total fire cycle of the Prowler you still have more DPS than any other ground-based gun.
The old Anchor mode was a once-in-a-blue-moon use item, but you must have forgotten what most TR players called it in the passed. Things like "it makes you a coffin" and "the suicide button" because the old Anchor prevented you from moving. This was remedied and gave the TR a massive advantage. Rather than the once-in-a-blue-moon use of the item by a veteran you now had every single player who bought it use it effectively at least once when they pull their Prowler, and you can use it on the move as well. This is an absolute advantage. If you want to disprove that you have to prove it with numbers (hint I already checked, please do so as well and educate yourself).

Also that you love the vehicle that has the least amount of tactical options available to it isn't a surprise if you think the Prowler is weak.

The Vulcan is OP, the Prowler isn't UP like you suggest and there is no reason to compensate for the Prowler with the ridiculous numbers the Vulcan gets. So if it is nerfed it won't be out of the blue.

Sorry but the KPU is more or less the same of the other 2 weapons the op speaks about... TR pull more harassers for some reason.

Aphelion is exactly the same thing even if you don't use the release mechanic and perform better at distance.

Vulcan has been re-balanced an insane amount of times and is nowadays quite balanced, as the kpu shows.

Is this sarcasm?

If not - then live in your little box and stick with the Vulcan. Not everyone likes to be pigeonholed into the dumbest and lowest common denominator.

Hey just a reminder as we drift and wander about through the ever expanding fingers of discussion.

The Vulcan DOES outperform it's counter parts on a 2:1 through 5:1 ratio day after day.

Something has to mathematically be on top. Happens to be the Vulcan. /shrug.

So...
Are we discussing if this is true?
Are we discussing if the margin is too great?
Or we discussing if something *should* be done?
Are we discussing what should be done?

I don't know if we should be at that final question or not. I think so, but totally understand disagreement.

I would be highly disappointed though if we were still wallowing around on the first or second questions.

Also...conversation will not progress if we keep lumping other things in. Make another thread on the Prowler or candy cannon or whatever plz.

When using a Vulcan, are you going for kills? No.
You go for vehicles.

The Vehicle KPU is higher. The average person using it has between 3.5 and 5 kills per day with the Vulcan. The average person using the Aphelion and Mjolnir get between 2.3 to 4 kills per day with their weapons. That means the Vulcan is consistenly better by a 20 to 25+% margin (the low and high numbers coincide with each other). So the Vulcan outperforms the other two weapons where it counts.

On top of that, the amount of uniques is higher. Which considering that 20 to 25% more vehicle kills per user isn't that surprising. But that also means that the amount of vehicles getting killed by Vulcans is higher due to there being more people using the Vulcan and getting that 3.5 to 5 kills with it.