We need more pilots

I agree that a lack of specialization was a terrible move. There's no reason to coordinate if you don't need to. Now we're plagued by mindless zergs. I don't know how PS1 specialization worked, but I do like the ability to switch from my ESF to a tank if the situation calls for it, so I wouldn't want to make things so strict as to not allow that. I don't want this game to be like an Arma mill-sim where you get assigned a role and have to complete training for that role and always be an assistant machinegunner.... Good points about the game though. I like your other post on the other thread too, as salty as it is.

You could basically certify any 25 things at any given times; certain things like MAX suits would run you more, though. For example, to be able to run a MAX, with one of the three weapon types, you'd need to drop 3, or you could buy into all three types at once for 6. Armor, equipment (including medical and repair tools - both of which slotted as pistols), nearly all weapons, vehicles, and I think even things like grenades all needed to be certified. You could also cert into hacking, but my memory isn't the best, and the wiki on the topic is very barebones, so... I remember being able to do a lot more than just flip terminals, though.

There was also pretty much no class system, other than Infil/Agile/Rexo, the first limiting you to a single pistol and no armor with cloaking, the middle giving you a primary, standard armor, and two pistol slots, and the last giving you twice the armor and a second primary (usually a rocket launcher) but limiting movement speed and vehicle usage. There was also basic armor, but that was just a crappy Agile suit with half the armor and one pistol slot, so nobody used it unless their base lost fabrication power, or they were BR1. Also, three implant slots - shielding, emergency health, stronger minimap, sprint boosts, and things we have now like Enhanced Targeting and Sensor Shield. Even if you weren't certed for something, I'm pretty sure you could loot it off a dead enemy and use it anyway. All of this is assuming BR25: I think implant slots were unlocked 6/12/24, and obviously one cert per rank.

You could also reset certifications once every 8 hours, I think.

Doors. If what I've read on these forums about it, Hacking also was for doors.
And medical & repair devices have limited ammo.
Ammo needed to be carried as well...
Maxes couldn't open doors, which were apparently plentiful.

From my view, which turns into a rant while I wrote it, which is below, PS1 specialization system relied on people...
Specifically people with high BR not abusing the lower ranked, and every single aspect of the game being represented at all times.
As otherwise, it turns into one-sided slaughter with no actual hope for 8 hours from anyone online at the time.
Whom pretty much are given the worst game-play due to a lack of adaptive capabilities.
IE you have a situation, where your entire class is useless, and that means your entire side is down a man.
Enemy spams Armor, screwed.
Vehicle under attack; Pray you have a repair tool, not pray you can switch in time... pray you 8 hours ago were ready.
No allied Medics - Sucks to be your side.
Zergs? Best ******* thing, let alone with the likelyhood of the enemy not having enough High BRs to have weapons that work.
IE Armor zerg - good luck winning, your side can't even switch out the 101 extra medics or Heavies lacking an AV weapon.

The inability to adapt, favors Zergs due to the lack of countering them on a case by case basis.
If it needs AA, you have to pray to have AA 8 hours prior.
If it needs AV, again, pray you have AV 8 hours prior.
In PS2, you just need to properly coordinate, not first pray & then coordinate.

###### Rant below.

Then you have this grand thing where if one side has 8 people, and the other side has 8 people;
If one side were higher BR, they could dominate by BR alone.
Either way; One side has a MAX unlocked, the other doesn't, Screwed.

That's if it was ported.
Add in implants being rank restricted, and you have a snowballing effect.
Let alone if you encounter vehicles, and not one happens to have spent themselves equally into said vehicles, or AV..
Or enough AV to actually handle the vehicles, resulting in one-sided slaughter with no ability to adapt.

Very screwed, given every single engagement is then requiring people to actually have varied skills, and actually have certed into the proper vehicles for the given moment, or the counter equipment, or the Opponent is literally given a Farm without risk.

Yes, I am not including the apparent specialized ammunition you could carry.
Given that again, is equipment that you also must have, taking slots the other side did not need to worry about.

Enemy Armor push; Pray those online in the region, even certed into Armor, or AV weapons.
Or be unable to do anything.

Enemy Team has an LA, you do not.
Pray no beacon is on a pole beyond grenade range, or that someone somewhere certed into an Aircraft & wants to kill a beacon.

Pray in infantry combat, to not be screwed entirely for 8 or more hours, since you have the wrong unlocks to be worth a **** in the fight.

PS1 was apparently great.
On PS2's battlefields, let alone the literal dependency on all the elements appearing to prevent a utter steamroll, means PS1's elements don't mix well at all with it.

• There are no doors: So the PS1 Flying VS Max is an incredible tactical advantage. Good luck C-4ing VS.
• There is no prayer to not have the unlock system linked to BRs, not screw over any new player or battle hard to one side.
• You should not have vehicles that can't be countered due to BR progress, or due to needing 8 hours to attempt to use the counter, that allows some incredible ******** - and lacks any interaction, they can not even attempt ffs.
• Height is a lot different in PS2, a lot of PS1's combat revolved around staircases of death apparently.

The few things from PS1 however, that would work in my opinion, without a Cluster ****.

• The needed proximity to Control Points. (Prevents the chasing around points for... excessive duration)
• Separate Light-Aircraft (There was apparently 1-2 types, with different load-outs for different roles)

And if you say Ammunition allowed limited soft-counter, or that needing to slot in ammo for every gun was great...
Go play with the Godsaw against a tank on the PTS - Doesn't even need to fire, just imagine it running you over.
As well, let's take 10 minutes to slot in ammo for a gun, which likely means no practical means to replenish.

Add in the mass of corpses, you aren't likely to get ammo for your own actual gun from, and that BR requirements mean killing a sod for the apparently better weapon & tools that grant an edge making it impractical.

I'm just imagining the 10-30 minute drive for a 2 minute battle, praying a higher BR doesn't have a Vehicle needing an Equal BR to start shooting at, without it being complete suicide.
Then a return trip to said fight, from the warpgate.
As dear **** do I doubt there will be proper allies, with all the mystical tools to make it actually enjoyable compared to a game where You do not spend more time driving to start, and dying than actually fighting.

Yes, that's not tactical - but if the majority enjoyed relying on, taking more time for, and doing more work getting to a 2 minute fight than the fight takes - all the while assuming a BR doesn't decide to own the entire battle, heaven forbid TKs...
We'd not likely have Zergs in PS2.
Why? As that's the path of least resistance for the largest reward in PS2.

Same logic in PS1 given all those systems, easily abused the higher your BR.
As by the given data, the higher the BR, the further the gap, and the ease of accessing counter-weapons to the rank restricted vehicles, if not both at once, than those with less time spent
- That's not "I have skill"difference or advantage, it's "I have the vehicle you lack the counter for in any practical way"
Do I seem cross? I don't particularly like being screwed just since someone went to a Terminal, and due to Level, can't even attempt to use the counter-weapon, relying on someone else to by fate have it, have the skill, and not even need teamwork.
Since that's pretty unlikely, given you can't work - it's entirely pointless but be fodder.

In PS2, You can switch a class, and not be basically road-kill for the entire fight.
You suck at Heavy? Switch to medic.
As "They are a higher level, so you die", followed by "This is all you can do", makes a fight so easily decided by the levels involved.
2x 17 , 17x 2 vs 3x 87, 1x 120.
19 vs 4. If the 19 can't access AV, or didn't pick from the start or 8 hours ago, what they'd need for the entire 8 hours..
Unless they get reinforcement that actually has AV, those 4 guys just need 1 tank to end it permanently.

That's 1 guy solo in a MBT, and 3 guys sitting on their *** - Since BR differences, and no ability to adapt on the battlefield.

Sure, that's reality - Barely.
Do you have forces, equipped to handle all aspects of a problem, and not give them the tool to actually handle it? No.
If your force has the remotest change to engage vehicles, they have someone with AV.

Can that be relied upon for a MP game?
No.
Is that practical, as it means the entire battle can turn due to lack of enough of a Counter due to players not focusing on that counter 8 hours ahead?
No.
Does that mean one side can spam a particular thing, and overwhelm the other sides whom can't have enough counters?
Yes.
Does this make zergs more profitable? **** yes it does.
As no side is pure 120's, there's no way for them to even have basic AV for the majority. So you can spam Tanks, and just blast past it.
Does this mean a single lack of something can determine the entire battle?
Yes, that's called anyone that has the capabilities of a Medic. Add in more people = more charges... snowballs.
Let alone if locked behind BR, or points, it means they can't match even a basic solider in any aspect - due to implants alone.
And since you have to basically cert 8 hours ahead, your side has to have people who do nothing but this every 8 hours.

A zerg, has the greatest likely-hood of having all the parts, so anything less than a Coordinated squad is?
******* useless.
As everything needs a part, they might as well log than pray to be blessed.
Not to mention anything less than 12 people is likely shafted, with 8 hours ignoring BR differences.
A single Jet-pack let alone Max, and they are easily screwed if 8 hours ago they didn't have someone cert into one.
And specifically the one they need.

Why 12?
As then you have the greatest likely-hood of a small uncoordinated group to have some parts of everything.
Mind you, anyone under BR 50, I'd assume would be inferior in access alone.
Since they have to re-specialize every 8 hours, in edition to earning things, these people are basically shafted.
No squad wants someone unable to cert into what they need - Not to mention it's every 8 hours.

How about stale gameplay?
You have this grand game with many parts, with adapting & changing battles.
And guess what, You must 8 hours ahead spec right to be worth a **** in a changing tide.
LA places a beacon, pray someone was an infil packing an EMP, or an LA, as otherwise they have Free reign.
That grows quite stale rather than, one minute you're a heavy, the next you're a medic, then an LA
Not to mention, every single battle no one is the exact same class constantly - they can adapt.

A sunderer's position is set up for LA's.
Anyone who didn't spec into that, is... ******* useless there.
It's under attack, anyone there that isn't certed into or packing AV or a repair kit is ******* useless.
Attacking a base? Pray someone certed into a Sundy.
Pray someone is high enough BR to even get a Sundy - Or watch you be screwed by the other side having luck to get one.

I love hearing your point of view on things, but I'm sorry, I can't read all that. I skimmed it and think I get the general idea though.

There's a point between Arma-level and CoD-level where I think PS2 belongs. What immediately comes to mind is HAs being the best against infantry, arguably best against vehicles, while being able to heal themselves and replenish their own ammunition. I don't think we should go full Arma where you have to ask around to see if anyone has the right caliber ammo for your gun, but just not where we are with the Heavy. Same as I don't want Medics in this game to have to go Arma and tourniquet libs before they stop CT/Head bleeding, start an IV then start CPR while someone else bandages and stitches up wounds, while you give the guy androstine to kick start his heart.... PS2 has just shifted a little too far towards CoD in my opinion.

You're assuming that PS1 was balanced the same way that PS2 is, but that's just not really the case. This is by far the biggest flaw in your entire rant.


And now in PS2, you get farmed as a new player regardless of what you had in mind a few hours ago. Zergs aren't much better because everyone plays Heavy, who has no counters, so you just get slammed regardless. High BR players still have a massive advantage in vehicle play - and because everyone can now spawn vehicles whenever, vehicle usage is a much larger part of the game. Ironically, the issue of "needing a higher BR just to start shooting at" an enemy vehicle is much more prevalent in PS2: a new player literally has no way to kill an air unit, and a new player in a vehicle essentially dies no matter how skilled they are when faced with a maxed enemy vehicle. In PS1 you could at least grab piercing bullets and scare an aircraft off.

Also, vehicles were basically straight unlocks - there was none of this Stealth 5 Fire Suppression 5 BS on an ESF, you just got the stock one no matter what. Put an ace on a BR 15 account in PS2 and they won't stand a chance in the air even with 1500 certs to burn, but hand them a BR3 character with the keys to ESFs back in PS1 and they could put on a show just as well as they could on their main.

WINplants like Carapace+Surgeon and BH still exist - they aren't dominating, but they still basically mean a free 1v1 against someone who doesn't have them. Also, again, PS1 implants worked very differently: they had severely limited battery systems, and most of them were effectively the same as current suit slots, or active abilities. They weren't free passives like they are now.

Weapons are now all just restats of each other instead of offering something unique. MAXes acted even more like human-sized tanks in PS1 than they do now, and... yeah, effectively pulling a tank against 8 clueless low level players is going to win you the engagement in either game. That's three of your 25 maximum certs, or 6 of them if you bought the all-weapons certification for MAX, by the way, which would also eliminate the issue of not being equipped for AV/AA, forever, until you reset your certs at some point.

Why one a single jetpacker or MAX screw a group without them? They still probably all had assault rifles and explosives. Sure, they'd be annoying to deal with, but you're acting like MAXes and jetpackers were immune to infantry fire. Hell, they aren't even close to either in PS2 as it stands. I have no idea where this is coming from.

Unlocks are still based around BR - you need to burn basically all 1500 starting certs in PS2 to reach a baseline level of competence. That's BR 15. In PS1, you needed an Agility Suit and a rifle - BR 3, max, and you could get BR 4 just for trying everything in the tutorial area. You seem to be under the impression that EVERYTHING costed as much as the MAX parts, and that's not the case - I mentioned them as an extreme high end of certification costs. You could get two or three weapons accessible by spending two certs.

Also, I'd love to know the statistical odds of your cherry-picked worst possible scenario of 20 people all not having any AV abilities, and also all being stupid enough to not know what AV rounds are (and even if AV rounds were half as powerful as the godsaw rounds are, they'd still easily destroy a vehicle with 19 people firing at once), AND LITERALLY ALL OF THEM HAVING THEIR CERT REFRESH ON COOLDOWN - THAT WASN'T SOME DAILY EVENT WHERE IT HAPPENS TO EVERYONE. Also, yeah, one godsaw is bad against a tank, but in PS1, EVERYONE could grab AV rounds, and I'm pretty sure 20 godsaws firing at one tank would kill it pretty quickly - not to mention that PS1 didn't have AV rounds balanced in the same way they are in PS2 - the devs KNEW that not everyone could cert a rocket launcher. If you were still worried about this scenario, you'd suck it up and cert into dedicated AV yourself.

If you whine about instantly losing to a vehicle because you didn't buy any AV weaponry IN A COMBINED ARMS GAME (which you could do for just 1 cert), and didn't want to swap to AV ammo, and also had your cert reset on cooldown... maybe you deserve to die to tanks for the next couple hours. At that point, you're just complaining about something you're making literally 0 effort or foresight into countering.

Also, note that grabbing an RL would eat a primary slot, so either you'd need to take the heavy, slow REXO armor, or rely on a pistol. Now, you just choose HA, and the only time you're negatively affected for being the best anti-everything troop is when you have your shielding turned on, where you move a tiny bit slower. VS MAXes were balanced around doors existing - you can't actually be this stupid, can you?

I'm just going to put this in its own line, because I doubt you'll read all this. Every PS1 player had access to anti-vehicle rounds that could be loaded into any gun. They were not powerful on their own, but because EVERY PLAYER could grab them if need be, one tank could not dominate a squad of low BR players, as it would just get shot to pieces. You're literally just assuming that's it was as effective as the current godsaw, or that it would take ten minutes to press g on a terminal and pull out a different ammo type. Even if it WAS identical to the godsaw - so what? Wiki says about 300 shots to down a Prowler, which would be 25 rounds from each member of a squad, and, again, EVERYONE could equip AV rounds in a few seconds.

BR maxed out at 25 back in PS1 - are you seriously thinking that I'm saying we should wholesale convert PS1's system to PS2? No, there's almost 5 times as many levels, that would make the max ranks stupidly adaptable compared to everyone else. I'm not even sure squad beacons were a thing - though orbital strikes were, meaning one high BR player could just nuke a zerg to stop it entirely, something which PS2 is sorely missing. Also, I'm pretty sure that, with full certs, you could buy Agile armor, both med and armor kits, a rocket launcher, an assault rifle, a ground and air vehicle, and all 3 MAX weapons. Drop both vehicles and the MAX, and you can essentially give yourself the equivalent of every PS2 class except Infiltrator at around BR 9. Most players essentially would have the equivalent of all four classes in their favorites menu, which is probably part of why DBG decided to make a fixed class system in PS2. Keep certing into infantry, and you can get a lot of toys that don't even exist in PS2, like orbital strikes and the plasma whip. Also, did you miss the part where I said you could loot some enemy's corpse and use their AV weapon for yourself, or store it in a locker until that point, with no cert cost? You also seem to be saying that you needed to be perfectly certed to be worthwhile in a changing battlefield - as proven above, that's actually, objectively, not the case, as long as you're past what's essentially the first three hours.

You don't seem to understand game design as a whole, actually. Maybe do some actual thinking before complaining on the forums about how unbalanced PS1's mechanics would be in an entirely different game.

A flat statement like "certify any 25 things at any given time" is a bit misleading. Lower weapon certifications had a few options under their belt, but higher certs tended to have one or two. In the case of MAXes, it was 3 for AI, 3 for AV and 2 for AA, or 6 for a package deal (later in the game's life). That's pretty much only one more than access to the Mini-Chaingun, Jackhammer, Lasher. (I'm simplifying cert-cost modifications over the years.) Vehicle certifications tended to come in two per or one per, and utility certifcations like engineering equipment were designed to be early sinks.

Not grenades, no.

You could cart an item around and store it for later; but, you couldn't use anything that you were uncerted in. Vehicles let you gun for them if uncerted but you could not drive them. Also, the implants were 6/12/18. BR24 was when you unlocked limited helmet customization. In the final version of the game's progression system, the default BR1 gave seven free certs, then one cert for any battle rank that did not award an implant slot, then one cert only every two ranks or so after BR24, and then "unlock everything" at BR40.

PlanetSide Syndicate's wiki was the previous bastion of PlanetSide Classic game knowledge before it shut down. We scraped it.

MAXes couldn't hack doors. You could argue that hacking doors was more important but it's more important to clarify that MAXes did not need a basic "doorman" to greet them at every portal, after your statement.
This casually wrong wording is actually fairly demonstrative about the remainder of your post so ...

I'm not going to itemize your complaint and my replies to each point because that could take all day and I dislike when people respond like that with such untiring pedantry, even when it might become necessary or is requested. Instead I am going to point out that you paint the game in far too slapdash and fatalistic terms. There was (intended to be) no silver bullet certifications and, also, no "wrong" certifications that lead to perfect dead end situations. Specifically, your lack of understanding the dynamics of certifications rounded at the edges of their capabilities and how Outfits and squads dealt with the varying certification considerations of the many different personalities who played the game in the game. It was even possible to create squads that had specific certification requirements before selecting that spot in the squad and, for whatever you think that's worth, it was rarely hard to find enough people with the appropriate certifications to not fill it out. A lot of that prep work you deride is actually easy to anticipate and manage though one option or another, whether that be certification, covert weapon acquisition via the locker system, or otherwise.

I think the main take-away from this is you are selling the game short because you are holding it in comparison against PlanetSide 2's experiences and are speculating on always encountering the worst case scenario is every situation. Based on the way you compare situations, that feels to be the case. Additionally, the conditions of the game closer towards its shutdown are not indicative about the way the game played out in any time before that. You are also relying far too much on some "just me"-ism aspect.

You are absolutely correct about the "staircases of death," however.

Goodness the walls of text!!

I believe PS2 is the best FPS on the net right now. It has some balance issues, but overall it's the best available by a long shot.

Picture something equivalent to 2 pounder maxes anchored on top of a staircase, with audio amp implant, in game today. The saltiness would rival the Dead Sea.

I agree that the scenario where a lone vehicle gets to farm entire squads because no one had AV certed is laughable at best. I think in the classic Planetside prime years, 90% or more of the player base had Rexo, Medium and Heavy Assault, AV, Engi and Medic certed. I had decimators in my agile+mcg templates, more or less the only players you encountered that had no AV capabilities at all were the rare infiltrators that didn't cert Combat Engineering, and even then everyone could get Jammer Grenades which more or less made vehicles sitting ducks on close quarter combat.

I like this post for the information; No so much for the "Your rant is illogical".
As, I didn't play Ps1, I've only had data about it, from this forums.
So all I had to work with was the gaping hole that it seemed, allowing PS1's features in PS2's environment.
Which was something I've seen suggested.

And yeah it was a rant.
Didn't have to have grand logic; a rant.

Well, that's useful to know. The last time someone talked about it, sounded like Maxes pretty much did need a doorman.

Correct.
Never plated in the first place, and yup my rant is mostly my experience in PS2 with having to rely on allies..
Being the literal last thing you want to do, Blame Connery NC for that one.

I still don't see how 19, assuming all are firing at the same time, AV Rounds at a proper MBT wouldn't be blasted into oblivion.
As they are also not high-ranking, and any base design of PS2 is usually 50% of easily farmed by 1 chokepoint...
It cascaded.

Which apparently was their Staircase problem in PS1.
That's very very telling that bit was accurate...


---------
(In the middle of that *********** of 1 am ranting, is how I liked the capture mechanic. )
Also my gods did I derail his thread.

I went to read this twice now.
And decided, that well dear lord.

I mention tanks in both, You talk about aircraft in ps2.
No one but a group with AA weapons in PS2 regardless of skill can handle aircraft in general in Ps2.
However, anyone with an AV launcher IE anyone with the heavy Assault class can attempt AV.
The problem with relying on every single member to not only have AV rounds, which take inventory slots is that it also relies on the tank being engaged by all 19 at the same time whom all also have the AV rounds...
At 25% (Godsaw is at 50%), those rounds are dealing 50 damage.
Unless that tank is sitting still in the open, never moving, any cannon should have no issue with the group, given it's all repairable damage - and it managed to have 19 people all mystically have AV rounds, to then engage the tank together.

As well, those same people are at 50% or less of their damage output, against the superior in skill & ammo troopers that aren't in the tank.

What are the odds of that, from inexperienced players? Less than the odds of having every single person pack AV rounds.
In Ps2, Tanks aren't requiring these situations, Aircraft sure... But that's not even what I talk about.

Now for how a Jetpack screws a squad:
Beacons in Ps2 - You place it past grenade range, out of direct fire, making it a jet-pack or bust place.
I don't care if PS1 lacked Beacons, the likely hood of not having the things in Ps2 is slim.
How a Max screws it: Visit a low-pop battle, imagine if one side didn't have a rocket or C-4, bullets only.
-- So yeah, that should've been obvious... since I said Beacons.
So no, the jetpack isn't immune to small arms, it's what a tactical smart *** can do with it.
Which is basically the same issue with a Gal at sky limit, without aircraft; It's there, and jack **** you can do without air.

Given the limited information, yes.
As it was described that everything was costing certs, and certs were capped.
And quite literally told directly, that You are 100% reliant on focusing on one aspect only, and die to all others.
Meaning to actually do anything, you need to mystically have all elements.

Actually, fun fact.
VS players from PS1 & PS2 suggested the VS max's jump jets return in PS2.
They had an entire group agree with the concept, on this very forum, and that it would be balanced in PS2 as ZOE isn't useful.
So no, I am aware the VS flying max was balanced or rather counteracted by the doors - as well that height wasn't as important then.
It is comic reading after a good tea, that it's implied as if I was the one thinking it would be balanced in PS2's environment.
I fought against the bloody idea on the very thread it came in.

I know about this.
Read about it here; Stamina system, IE the first PS2 Implant power system but with a recharging aspect.

Every single player has a pistol that can damage all but the heavy aircraft.
So Aircraft at the ESF level is balanced.
Similar Logic, just to point that out.
300 rounds to take down a Prowler, assuming all shooters have AV rounds, no misses no repairs, no lack of cover, no distance to factor, no deaths via the tank... that's called a lot of factors to the practicality of an ammo type which given it's an AV ammo means it isn't going to be glorious the moment it faces any other infantry, with I assume half or less of their ammo supply being AV.
Assuming as none said it couldn't be switched in the field? Or can you only carry one? Actual question.

As well, No I did not think you wanted to switch entirely PS2's systems to PS1's on the same map or similar.
Even in a Rant, I'd declare such, I would hope.

Well, it was a Rant.
But hey, to basically cherry pick bits out of a rant where I did it, as if you didn't... Is hypocritical.
Talk about tanks vs impractical AV options, get response as if PS2's AA problem = AV options...
But hey if AV rounds were the god send for PS1, why were vehicles used?
Not to mention, I read a bit in there how a high BR could kill entire zergs - and since you didn't clarify, I have to assume it was easy if it actually stopped zergs.

Which means, the entire situation is reliant on high BRs with Weapons-of-Mass-Destruction at their finger tips..
A lot of reliance on fate.
Reminds me of the Skyknight aircraft counter: Pull an ESF you aren't skilled in, to engage the Skilled ESF pilot.
"Everyone can pull AV ammo, which is why It's not a standard ammo, and Vehicles are still in use"

Yes, I got very sarcastic, and negative at the end.
As I re-read repeatedly... It's very annoying to read someone imply stupidity while switching out entire situations, and following with very specific-by-chance situations as if Golden solutions.

After all, if the Godsaw AV, and Spiker AV modes were practical, Tankers would be screaming about how they are obsolete due to a Pistol & LMG.
And those are the only AV ammo, I've seen.
Without actual damage numbers, or a sentence how exactly the balance between everyone with AV rounds & vehicle works out..
I'm logically going to consider it bat**** insane to rely on AV bullets.

It was called the orbital strike. You had to be Command Rank 5 I believe to call it in, and it had a cool-down of 24 hours. It was mostly used to clear vehicle zergs & AMS'. It looked like this:

It's obvious you don't fly ESFs. An Ace in a BR 15 account will still win their 1-on-1 ESF duels vs. non-Ace ESFs.

An Ace in a STOCK ESF should still win most his 1-on-1 vs. non-Ace ESFs. Default Nosegun is solid for vs. ESFs, wingmount External Fuel Tanks probably gives him an actual advantage in that most other ESFs will be running a G2A wingmount (that is weak in ESF duels). He's losing out on Stealth, but a Pro won't need that to hide from his opponent. He loses out on Fire Suppression (which is powerful), but he won't need that extra health to beat a non-Pro. He loses out on an Airframe, which makes his ESF slower/clunkier, but not enough against a non-Pro to matter.

When I started up my 5 alt accounts back in the day, I use a Stock ESF with Rocket Pods to farm the Certs I needed. I am just an above average ESF pilot, and I had no problem taking out in duels most enemy ESFs I ran across.

I appreciate that PS1 was a good reference for general material/template and lessons learned, but PS1 was largely a commercial failure. Most its hype came off being the first MMOFPS and being made by the company that made EQ1. But it's not a big name license, it never really got that many people playing it, and the servers limped along then shut down.

Copying the PS1 model and ignoring more successful and more mass appealing FPS (and other) games would have been a major mistake in terms of the game's financial and brand success.

PS2 has some of the worst Pan-Faction Communication tools I have ever seen in a "team" game. There are plenty of reasons still to coordinate in PS2, but essentially there is NO WAY to coordinate beyond "forming a herd" that isn't just a handful of dudes and everyone else an army of deaf mute mimes.

The zerg generally gets bigger because individual players can't perform on their own, so they group up to achieve goals. Why are you complaining about people coordinating in one sentence, and then complaining about zergs in the next?: zergs ARE coordination.

They're only "mindless" because they are locked onto Lattice rails and because the people in them don't have any decent pan-faction communication tools.

So true. ESF upgrades are incredibly powerful, but the skill gap between players is so huge that you could put a pro in a bone stock ESF and he'll do well. Awareness beats Stealth, and good aiming beats gun and airframe upgrades. Plus, fire suppression is only useful if your'e losing in the first place.

PS2 zergs are similar to a bunch of kids running after an icecream truck. They're all running the same direction with the same goal, and they'll probably get the truck to stop thanks to their numbers, but calling that coordination is a stretch. Where I get pissy about zergs in PS2 is that they require so little teamwork and strategy to be so effective. The lattice system is largely to blame. Pick a lane and throw bodies at it. And most of the time there's no way to hit a flanking base or back cap that zerg. That's why I'm such a fan of that Hybrid Hex system that's been floating around here the past few days, smaller forces could always find a way to work around a larger, less coordinated zerg.

Haha, yes you did.

Yup. The skill curve in ESF is brutal (this is well known), and the power level spike up at each skill tier is MASSIVE.

I look at zergs as a very base, crude, low active thought/action, and often incidental form of coordination. "Forming a herd". But many players definitely seek out the zerg and then choose to move with the herd.

The zerg generally gets bigger because individual players can't perform on their own, so they group up to achieve goals. Or they snowball with other players as the battle they joined ends up winning and then limps along the lattice, because the players don't really have other good options to change their frontline.

PS2 has some of the worst Pan-Faction Communication tools I have ever seen in a "team" game. There is NO WAY to coordinate beyond "forming a herd" that isn't just a handful of dudes and everyone else an army of deaf mute mimes. If you added decent pan-communication tools, you would see people start to get more involved in coordinating with their forces.

Another major boost to the zerg has been the gradual, incremental patch removal of very long range Infantry AV. AV Mana Turret, Lancer, etc. These tools were effective at breaking the camping vehicle component of a zerg, generally starting with one facing of the base. Without these tools, there is very little uncoordinated methods of breaking up a zerg's vehicles, and its the vehicles that give the zerg its backbone, lockdown, and support. They took away the ability for casual players to reliably kill zergs with basic and naturally occuring strategies.

I hate back capping. I hate hardcore Squads and organized play. I don't hate them for existing, I celebrate those who did Server Smash or those who push the tech in the game. I hate them because Squads and non-Squads/casuals/zergers really don't belong in the same game. And the hardcore Squads (even though they were/are a small % of overall players) were smart and self-aware enough to know this and yet do nothing about it, and they had the ear of the Devs. Where they should have demanded a deeper game, they asked for simple crutch solutions bent their way. Where they should have asked for expanded hardcore gameplay, they just asked for ways to punk casuals easier.

Hardcore Squads should be on servers OR have objectives where it's just them and other squads. PMBs are a kinda good example of hardcore squad objectives that keep them out of casual player play (except for PMBs themselves being so influential in what happens to a casual player). And casual players should be put on a server OR have objectives where the communication channels allowed the whole Faction to communicate.

Hardcore Squads back capping is like high level players farming noobs in an MMORPG. It's not a fun two-sided game, it's just one-sided vets ganking/farming/griefing casuals with vastly superior coordination tools, special squad only resources, and a dev that wants to help the hardcore squads do it better.

I blame the Hardcore Squads because they should have demanded a better game for themselves. Not in which they could farm weak opponents easier. But in which they could execute strategy vs. equal opponents. Instead they lobbied for simple abusable tactics they could use to break combined arms, get easy results, and void the role of strategy. They chased the "I win" instead of the "wow, what an amazing and complex experience and challenge".

Server Smash should have been used as a testing ground on how to improve the game toward that gameplay. How to balance the units so they were evenly used. How to expand the casual players communication tools and cross-outfit communication tools so they can all link up and perform like in SS. Instead, it was just an anomaly, and one where the leaders just asked for stunted tactics to be kept in and even made easier and break combined arms more.

I completely agree with you on why zergs are functional and sought out.

I completely support the long range AV nerf. It works in Arma, where you can see a tank coming from 5 kilometers away, and he can return fire on you. I'd love for there to be long range AV, but it just can't happen with this game's crappy render ranges.

You hate organized play in an MMO? I'm sorry but you're in the wrong game then. The reason I seek out small squad fights is exaclty because of the competition. I don't want to farm in a zerg, and I likewise don't want to be farmed by one. Seeking out the small fights and stepping away from their herd is exactly what vets need to do. I'm not a great player by any definition, so it's not like I'm preying on the weak, I just seek out more engaging and competitive fights than lobbing HE at spawnrooms. This is the same reason I don't fly in gank squads. I want to see more balanced fights and competition, not farm noobs. I reach out to pilots who put up a good fight in a 1v1, win or lose. There's too much animosity, especially for such a small community.

If I take a guess, it's the whole Squad \ Platoon by virtue of being in a platoon, nor organized at all beyond a waypoint by viture of being in said Squad \ Platoon to be boosted better than any group of equal size actually organizing themselves without the tools limited solely to teams of 48 at a time.

Every Squad is basically independent of the platoon, and benefits no one but their own members with their tools.
The Platoon's shared advantages are:

• Platoon Wide channel.
• Platoon lead's Multi-squad waypoints visible to all squads.

Every Squad however has over any non-squad group:

• Spawn Beacons
• Waypoints
• Long-Range Voice
• Smoke
• Squad-Spawn
• EXP for actions related to other Squad Members

A group outside of a squad has:

• Text Chat
• Short-range proximity Voice
• Deployed Sunderer Spawn

A Squad can completely ignore each other, and still use all of these, as well as their own perks for being in it.
Which include beyond Smoke Squad \ Platoon Limited communication methods also visible only to that 48 set.

Two Platoons have no value at all working together, without External Communications to coordinate.
As it's harder, provides no additional benefits beyond raw numbers, and they lose out on the EXP bonuses of working alone with their Squads.

Any group of 12, if not in a squad is even while coordinating with less tools, is far less capable than a dysfunctional squad half their size.

So if I have to guess, that little bit would his problem with "organized play"
As it's only benefiting "organized play" when in groups of 48, with only those in said group.
All other allies past that, beyond numbers are as useful as solo-players, and less valuable than squad-mates in every situation.

As coordinating anyone not in the squad or platoon is limited to painful text chat (hard to use in actual combat) to short-ranged proxi chat.
Unless you manage to get an external communication line like getting every platoon lead in the local area into the same 3rd party voice chat.
As otherwise, the smoke signals and Text-based chat is nearly the only practical means to coordinate past the platoon level to anyone outside an outfit already in communication to said platoon.

Not true at all. While I'm not defending in-game communication, there is a voice channel for commanders that I've frequently used with great success.

You mean a voice chat that needs to be certed into, assuming every group is being led by this person whom then somehow tells everyone else who isn't in said chat about it, for every single battle?
Heaven forbid you want to organize with a group that isn't in a squad, nor has anyone in said Command chat.

As well, unless that's a Voice chat, has the same issue with the rest.
Even Orders Chat easily gets screwed, if every battle is trying to coordinate with those not in their platoons past proximity range if they aren't easily able to chat..

After all, Can't expect either chat for organizing groups, when not everyone is in it, nor can use it.
Let alone not every little battle is under the command of one leader, heaven forbid one not with that chat.

It's 100 certs, I think just to keep people who squad up with their friends from pushing the button without knowing what it means. And if they don't understand the game enough to know about command chat then they shouldn't be using it.

You're just being silly now. What organized groups aren't in a squad? If they wanted to organize, they'd join a platoon.

This game has catered to simple players, that's why we don't see any grand strategy, coupled with the fact that you don't need it, you can just zerg for the win. Some rare individuals like herding cats. Most orginized players do the small squad stuff that zaspacer hates, and no chat would get them to work with other small squads, they're in those small squads for a reason.

All that said, there should be a faction chat option, better ways to communicate with friends, even across factions, and possibly a way to opt your unit in to a larger group to expand the networking ability of players. So I'm not saying things are fine, just that there's a very functional commanders' chat.