Sunderer Stealth is Completely Useless

Yea i agree with this for the most part.

whats also important is that while the vehicle is technically in stealth the surface area it takes up increases by like what x10? it makes a ******* massive bubble around it that any muppet can see when running around your base.

I do find that as Demigan says I tend only to lose my stealth sunderers to vehicles when they bump directly into it and you can see the moment of confusion in them before they start attacking and kill the vehicle

but for guys on foot the bubble is way more visible and from further away, and since the bubble is like the length of 2 and a half sunderers in all directions, a light assault thats zipping around the base with unlimited freedom of movement will see it and then it immediately dies and there is no chance you can defend it from that. when a tank comes over, you can hear it, try and intercept it try and fight it off, and with infantry that isnt hard. but a single man can easily slip through the cracks and then the sunderer is instantly dead.

I think they're just fine. Using them as base attack sunderers are always going to leave a trail of infantry straight to it, it's almost always going to be found like that, otherwise you put it somewhere a bit aways and suddenly you're being less effective than a deployshield bus thats in the garage where they expect it.

Imo, people use the cloak the wrong way, just use it for heavies and AV kits, a squad of people with a cloak bus is a nightmare for vehicles, you can even use it in conjunction with attacking a base and killing the vehicles overhead or that attack your allied sunderers. If the premise is that the sunderer dies after the first infantry guy finds it, then you simply have infantry around it protecting it, best way to keep defenders not bored out of their skulls and let them contribute to the fight is to simply have the stealth bus somewhere overlooking the fight or vehicle straightways and have the infantry coordinate strikes on vehicles.

The only problem here is the infantry coordination, some infantry think it's stupid to have a bus for any other reason except to attack the base, others are too stupid to think "hmmm this bus is far away from the fight, I better not spawn on it" and spawn there and leave a nice bread trail to the bus.

Beyond that, harassers, really REALLY observant air and possibly the roaming tank will find your "lone wolf" sunderer, you will lose it, you should, infantry do not protect well, unless it's a group.

Well. Let me give the other side of that experience.

I routinely hunt and pop cloaky sundies.

Here's how.

Step 1: Pull Valkyrie with Scout Radar
Step 2: Move to AO
Step 3: Find obstruction and duck behind it
Step 4: Watch map for 15 seconds
Step 5: Localize sundy direction using stream of red dots heading to point.
Step 6: Investigate axis at 10m
Step 7: Either locate it via contrast with ground at 10-25 degree angle, or more likely Get shot by spawning planet mans
Step 8: Call in
Step 9: If Sundy Persists or Assets unavailable, engage with gun, or use mines + stickies.
Alternatively, you can go directly to 9 if someone failed to lock the sundy and it engages its guns and decloaks. Bringing the Valkyrie around will generally cause this reaction.


Cloaked sundies are effective. They simply aren't the end all be all. They are merely one facet of the logistical model. They have good situations, they have bad situations.

Cloaker sundy is still a major thing imo.
If you are a van driver (and I mean me) then you look after the spawn point, keep it alive, get the attack underway and keep the zerg happy.
Low pop place it somewhere a little less obvious and it can be a major thing.
Change the location and keep the defenders guessing, get fire supp maxed and play engie, put out defenses and even C4 fairies cannot kill it.
Kill them! Then relocate.
Resources are free btw.
Pay attention and your cloaked sundy will be a good thing.
Also, if your adversary manages to counter that is a really good thing, learn from their expertise, /t and ask how they knew what to do, adapt and make us all enjoy the new experience you gained.

Don't fret too much over Demigan. From what I've seen, he is 100% rigid in his beliefs and, as such, his 'participation' in any real discussion is essentially meaningless (since he will never be swayed about anything, and he'll think he's always right no matter what).
For what it's worth, I completely agree that it's a serious issue that LAs can 'solo' sunderers (and every other ground vehicle in the game) in a matter of seconds. It's less of an issue for AV vehicles, because, absurdly, their vehicle TTK is many times slower than a single LA's.

I try, but once a battle becomes heated, I find that de-cloaking is a death sentence, because anyone who didn't know where your bus was will now. How do you avoid that?

Here's my most recent placement at Eisa Mountain Pass:

Guess what? As soon as enemies were within line-of-sight (over 100m away, at the bottom of the ravine directly behind the sunderer), the thing was spotted and attacked.
If I had used a shield or armor sunderer, it might have been able to survive the infantry AV attack that followed.

it got detected because you placed it in the manner that you would a regular sundie from that ravine down there i'd be able to see enemies poofing into existance when they leave the cloak bubble, i mean seriously it's right on the border of the no deploy zone.

decently placed stealth sundies give enough terrain cover on the directions of aproach the enemy will use so nobody sees any infantry at range suddenly becoming visible.

it's easy to take a vehicle like a flash and so a quick sweep around the edge of a no deploy zone like that looking for any type of sundie, not only that but that's the only sundie there meaning the stream of spawns will lead enemies to it.

this is why stealth sundies are good as backups when placed far enough away from the enemy base and with some decent enough cover to hide infantry decloaking, the distance works in your favor if enemies start backtrackings your alleis can kill them then you can move the sundie to keep them guessing.

It could use some improving to keep some fights lasting longer, maybe.
But for those that have been playing long enough it's generally not hard to guess where a sunderer's general location is, and the addition of the rocket sidearm for light assaults makes destroying a lone stealthed sunderer far easier. All it takes is killing the wrong person once and they'll know roughly where you are from the damage indicator, then they just guess around the area.
Maybe they shouldn't give it that giant stealth bubble visual just to make the visual footprint smaller, keep cloaking people around it though.
Also the engineer's Archer, once you have a rough idea where a sunderer is, tap it and spot it, everyone now knows where to fire.
Not entirely sure how to balance this, shielding it kind of nerfs light assault's role in bombing it, dunno what else to do but to actually turn it nearly invisible. Might help if camo's actually made things harder to see, but then you'd have to give free players a way to get each continent's color pattern.

As for placement strategies, generally I simply don't try to bother hiding out in the open, I just get in close and deploy preferably with some physical cover, all the stealth serves a purpose for is that tanks 300m away can't just roll up a hill and snipe it, though I've done that myself if I previously figured out where a sunderer was.

Actually I'm not using "beliefs", I'm using these things called "arguments" and "facts". And I can be convinced... If you use them too.

But ofcourse, mister Rydenan thinks a "discussion" is basically "throwing your opinion around". And he thinks that that's less rigid? The amount of times an opinion ever swayed someone must be countable on your hand. While facts and arguments actually are there to convince someone.

As for the discussion for LA's, you completely rip it out of context!
LA: Has a CQC weapon, is slower than it's target, has shorter range, has an activation time, if spotted by it's target it's practically impossible to finish him off as even backing up is faster than you. The LA also has to circumvent the enemy units who can spot and kill him beforehand or tip off the target. Which requires a much larger Situational Awareness (SA) than the tank needs to protect himself. Normal MO when engaging tanks: Avoid combat as much as possible, use terrain to avoid being spotted by the target, approach from a flanking position, deploy explosives, detonate.
Tank: Has weapons that can OHK a target. While it can't aim as high as people like it's cone of vision is high enough to see the top of a tower at 40m (the top of a tower is around 70m high, a Skirmisher jumpjet, still the most used LA jumpjet, can barely reach 40m from that height). The tank is faster in just about any direction, has a longer range to comfortable engage infantry in and only has to see his target to beat it. Also randomized movement protects you. Normal MO when engaging infantry: Sit still and lob shells. The smart tankers will add SA to this and look at the routes that the LA's still have available to them to reach you from a flanking position. Since LA's aren't fast you often have more than enough spots and time to see them in advance before they even start their final approach on you.

But rather than take all that into account, Rydenan takes only the TTK aspect and says "so it's OP!". Which is bullcrap. In fact if you actually look at when the battle begins then the TTK is a lot higher. Consider that the battle begins when the LA leaves the spawn and starts avoiding combat to approach his opponent. Consider that the tanker often doesn't even realize he's killed a C4 fairy, which resets the LA and adds more TTK. Consider that the only reason C4 is hated is because it only works when you approach your target unspotted, which gives the tanker the feeling he couldn't prevent it even though he had plenty of options.

Ah, see what I mean? Demigan's opinions aren't opinions, they're facts!
Silly me!

Every discussion on the forum is about opinions. The only problem is that you fail to realize that your own positions also fall into this category: opinions.

That's a lot of text.
Perhaps you've never encountered (or simply refuse to acknowledge) the extremely common practice of drifter LAs redeploying out of ceiling valkyries or galaxies. There is no approach, they are near impossible to see, since infantry on the ground can't look straight up, and hitting them is nigh on impossible, because they are several hundred meters away; well outside of the range of most weapons in Planetside 2. Not to mention that aiming at extreme vertical angles is very difficult because of the way the character rotates.
After tossing their C4, they simply redeploy in the air and spawn again in the aircraft with new C4. Rinse, repeat.
Anyway, the devs must disagree with you, because they're looking to add a defense slot that protects tanks from C4 OHKs. Too bad.

Every discussion is about opinions. But what you use in a discussion are facts and arguments.
You don't get very far when I say "Cloak Sunderers are useful", which is my opinion, and then you say "Cloak Sunderers aren't useful", which is yours.
Then we would fall into a "does too", "does not" fight that even twelve year olds are already passed.

In come facts and arguments! You don't just state your opinion, you try to prove that what you say isn't just an opinion, but it's the actual truth.
Now in this discussion so far the nay-sayers have used single anecdotal evidence. "I placed this Sunderer once, they found it in no time!".
But when someone finally posts a screenshot of their placement saying "I placed it sooo well", we see it instantly violates everything we keep saying: Don't place it in obvious spots. Don't let a congaline of infantry reveal it's position.
But hey, it's good of you to at least try to do exactly what I ask for: Try to prove what you are saying is true with evidence. Unfortunately your evidence backfired and proved you were wrong, but better have that than don't use proof at all.

It's not a common practice, and even then the simple act of movement can prevent the attack from succeeding. Also consider this: Players who touch tanks suddenly lose most of their common sense. Normal acts like looking around you to prevent getting attacked are thrown out of the window. So if you start moving and become a less viable target, the C4 fairies will go for the idiot sitting still and tunnel visioning.

Even if you are the only target around, the simple act of moving around helps protect you. It doesn't even need to be much. Additionally if you are going to be sitting still for extended periods of time, place a Spitfire. These babies have a 50m detection range and tip you off if someone approaches you. Most LA's won't be dropping from 50+m height due to the C4'rs terrible server-side drop, which means that on your screen the C4 can be on top of the tank while in reality it hasn't even dropped halfway there. Add the latest server-side problems with C4, where C4 can stay in the position where you threw it for 2 seconds or more before it starts dropping, and you've got a whole nice mess on your hands. Also let's not forget that most LA's and C4 fairies don't use Drifters, and don't even have the staying power to remain high above their target.

And that's not mentioning other options like proxy radar, getting out once in a while to look up, using the new and improved Sweeper HUD, using a Kobalt or Walker to shoot down LA's or just plain not getting dumb when touching vehicles.
Also sad to say for you, the new top-armor that adds C4 protection doesn't protect against 2 C4. 2 C4 still kill the tank.

This is the major problem with stealth sundy IMO. Often I find cloaked sundies just because their bubble comes through the walls/rocks/roofs otherwise I wouldn't notice them at all. If it was more like Flash cloak it would be perfect, well, there are situations where you can take advantage from your friendly Sundy cloak but I could live without it any day.

I wouldn't mind being able to shrink the size of the cloak bubble, so it wont go through walls and have the option to be able to turn the cloak on/off.

Did you even read the OP? Go on, read the OP.
Whether you agree with it or not, it's a whole bunch of justifications for my opinion.
That you fail to see that automatically ruins your credibility in this matter.

Seriously dude, read the OP.

Tell me how a tiny shelf on the side of a mountain, where it doesn't even look like a sunderer can reach, is an 'obvious spot'? Where would you, in your infinite cloak-sunderer wisdom, have placed it for more effectiveness?

-Accuses me of not providing evidence
-Admits I provided evince.
C'mon man. You're all over the map here.

Regardless, it's funny how these things work. You see, to me, the arguments you've used to back up your opinion are inaccurate, while those I've provided are legitimate.

He said with absolutely no proof.

Good luck trying to dodge something you can't see. You're just as likely to move into the C4 as move away from it. That is, if you know there's a C4 faery above you at all.

Ah, I forgot that the real problem is that all vehicle drivers are idiots and need to Git Gud.
[[Bias Intensifies]]

-Proxy radar has a very low ceiling and is easy to fly above
-Infantry, tanks, Kobalt, all have vertical look limits. It may seem close to vertical, but extend that cone several hundred meters in the air, and there's a rather huge area you cannot shoot at.

False. Guess you're not as up-to-speed as you thought?

A whole bunch of bullcrap justification.

The moment you brought in your proof everyone immediately pointed out how terrible your placement was. Normal people would place their shield Sunderers there. You have no idea how to place them, or where to place them.

Because it's not a "tiny shelf on the side of a mountain where it doesn't even look like a Sunderer can reach".

Where you placed it there's even a small road leading up to it that even a freaking Vanguard could reach, it's the only reasonably protected space on that side and the only other places to place it with any reasonable safety would be at the Sunderer garages. Infantry also has only one place to go up along that whole line: Exactly where you parked it. Anyone looking for where those infantry are coming from will first move there because all the infantry is coming from there, and then look where the hell the infantry might come from. Even if you did place your Sunderer somewhere else along the line, which would have been better, the congaline of infantry would have instantly tipped them off, if not the LA's that would take the direct approach and tell everyone "it's around about there".

And you also were the only one placing a Sunderer for the entire attack! Stealth Sunderers don't work that way, because as people keep pointing out, you've got a congaline of infantry pointing to where your Stundy is. And even if it didn't, any normal sweep of the area would have revealed your Sunderer. A vehicle checks Sunderer bay number 1, hey no Sunderer. He moves around to the other garage, passes your Sunderer on several feet while infantry make loud decloaking noises tipping him off "it's here".

Frankly you've found the worst possible place ever conceived to place a Stundy. It can be found in too many ways either by accident or by semi-active searching.

So Here's just an example of a properly placed Sunderer:


This Stundy is 400m away from the center of the AMP station. "Gee, that's far away", yes that's the point. Placing one in the courtyard gets it found quickly, you don't want everyone and their dog spawning on it because respawning infantry quickly guide players to the Stundies location.

This Stundy was used by only 4 people, 7 by the time it was discovered because the NC got pushed off the AMP station and the TR finally had enough people to judge it's apparent location. In that time the people spawning there, mainly LA's and Infils, had hacked turrets, overloaded turrets, got more than 20 people busy behind enemy lines because the constant harassment and considering my own achievements of clearing an entire tower and several times hacking a turret that backstabbed tanks and Sunderers and prevented the NC being routed, it was time well spend.

"But why didn't you put it all the way up at the edge of the cliff then? It would have shortened your route there immensely!"
Because it's a cliff. And we are fighting TR. And it's only 400m to the center of the AMP station from the Sunderer position meaning not enough to unrender NC vehicles approaching the AMP station, meaning any TR guy who thinks of ruining NC's day with an Anchored Prowler will move there. And what do you know? It happened twice! Once even as I was bringing my Stundy in position! If I had placed it there the Stundy would have died before I had even been able to deploy it.
But in the spot I placed it? It survived for 50 minutes at the least, probably more because I only reset the timer twice but the others spawning there reset it also a few times. And it was worth everything, the time spend getting the Stundy there, the time spend traveling into the AMP station, the complete destruction that these flanking attacks brought the TR.

1: You don't even need to know if the C4 fairy is there to dodge it. Ample of movement will save your skin.
2: Tank vision is highly underrated. You have a much higher FOV than your turret allows you to fire, although most players seem to consider the top of the tanks view to be invisible the moment you've reached the maximum elevation. Also there's plenty of methods to reveal these LA's before they do damage.

This can actually be seen everywhere. Players incapable of watching their flanks, players who get blown up by C4 because they were tunnelvisioning returning to the exact same spot without any precautions and then being surprised they get blown up again. How most players instantly lock themselves in a tunnelvision the moment the vehicular threat is gone, even though most tanks die to C4 during infantry farming because they stand still and tunnel vision a lot.

I mean have you ever wondered why tanks are the least C4red during vehicular combat? And don't go "but I was once long ago in a grey and distant past killed by C4 during vehicle combat".
During vehicle vs vehicle combat, they are moving about. They are jockeying for position. When they get out to repair they do a quick sweep of the surrounding area because they know that they can be killed while repairing, that they are vulnerable. There's also the extra infantry running around, spotting targets, checking their own flanks and using their SA to make sure they don't get killed by an LA popping it's head out from high cover.
And all that ends the moment the vehicles are gone. The infantry moves into the base, the vehicles take their place outside it and start shelling. But suddenly they stop focussing on their safety and start focussing on getting kills. And apparently it's worth it, because people keep doing the same thing over and over again even if you catch them repeatedly with C4, or AT mines, hell even when you do it with an HE lightning they will repeat it again and again and not learn from their mistakes. Where infantry gets shot once by a sniper and changes his approach the next time, tanks will do the same thing over and over again the moment the enemy vehicles are cleared.

50m, which is 2/3rd the way up of a tower. Most cover that LA can use to get to you is lower than a tower. Most LA even still use Skirmisher jets or Icarus jets instead of Drifters, you have plenty of chances to find them. Hell, even before Drifters became of any use tanks complained, even before Valkyries and Galaxies had squad-spawn methods the tanks said it was "oh so impossible" to ward off C4 fairies. But nothing is farther from the truth.

"It's all unbalanced because, once in a while, someone might drop C4 from 100+m on top of you, despite the immense server-latency and slow C4 drop making it almost impossible to properly judge if it's down and your target needing to remain stationary for 20+ seconds for it to work while you hover in the air with jumpjets that can last a maximum of 33 seconds if you maxed it and use the special fuel upgrade suit slot".

https://forums.daybreakgames.com/ps2/index.php?threads/pts-update-1-3.244228/

"Prowler, Magrider, Vanguard
Top Armor
The top armor cert line now increases resistance to C4.
Currently, two bricks will barely destroy these vehicles (so effectively no change if you were getting destroyed by two bricks prior,) but we are open to adjustment after seeing how it affects the desirability of the top armor cert line."

Hmm, "will barely destroy", means it does destroy it. But ofcourse, that's just an opinion right?


Edit: Just trying it out on the PTS:
Lighting Flank armor gives 50% C4 protection, and dies in 2 bricks.
Vanguard flank armor gives 40% C4 protection... And dies in 2 bricks.
And the second one didn't die in 2 bricks. Which could be chalked up to server-side problems, but it's strange.

Pardon my ignorance for not reading the majority of the previous comments, I just want to input my view as someone who is both an older player and as someone who actively seeks enemy Sunderers to destroy.

Firstly, as someone previously mentioned, a big issue is Sunderer placement vs vets. After playing this game for 4 years I know almost every single Sunderer spot used. The problem is that many who use the cloaking module do no different than a Sunderer using the deploy shield for example, in fact due to the placement of many cloaked Sunderers, had they used the deploy shield they would likely have fared better. Time after time do I see cloaked Sunderers parked in garages, as close to capture points as possible, quite literally in the middle of the road, something of which many players use on a daily basis, or a usual and most common one, inside of a base. These are extremely poor placements for a cloaked Sunderer. They are obvious and in my opinion, quite pointless. The only thing anyone doing when placing Sunderers in locations like that is giving your enemy a free, easy kill and a +1 towards their deployed AMS kills.

Secondly, when you're in the middle of a huge fight and you suddenly see a lot of people coming from out of no where, ask yourself one question - where are all these people coming from? It's so obvious there is a Sunderer there whether it can be seen or not. No large quantity of players spawn out of thin air. There are only 3 ways a player can spawn beyond the game's fixed spawn points and those are the Elysium spawn tubes, spawn beacons placed by squad leaders and of course Sunderers.

Finally, if you're like my friend and I who actively hunt for Sunderers, we often spend our time flanking the enemy. We never go straight in head first unless we're using a cloaked flash where it permits us to go a Harasser cannot unless we wish to be blown up before getting a few feet past the friendly defence line. Let me tell you, when you spend time flanking a lot, you bump into some pretty interesting things. That one stat padder trying to get his knife kills up, a group of people trying to sneak around with ANTs and create a quick-dump defence base, or more importantly, cloaked Sunderers.

Out of personal observation I find cloaked Sunderers a lot easier to see at night time. Perhaps it's just my settings, perhaps it's just the way the vehicle's cloak bubble has been designed, either way it's a lot easier to see.

All in all, if you want to take advantage of a reakk good cloaked Sunderer spot, learn to create exotic new angles. Place your Sunderer in rare, unused positions. Avoid using them at night time where they're easier to see and most importantly, check the location in which you're going to deploy at. You'll notice that many infiltrators will complain about how they're often easily seen even in deep cloak but many forget that the background in which they're cloaking at often has a large effect on whether or not they can be seen. Placing your Sunderer where the cloak bubble can easily be seen against certain backgrounds makes for a pretty easily spotted Sunderer. A rare instance in which a player utilised the feature quite well was when they literally parked it in the middle of no where in the desert sands of Indar. The bubble wasn't blurting through building walls, it was in a completely unexpected position and it was against a background that was extremely hard to see.

Well, Im one of those "pesky little harrassers" placing the invisible support Sundies, where no one ever would spawn, and where the enemy wont get an idea, that the sundie is there for a quick respawn.
Unfortunately I noticed the same - it's been destroyed in no time, once the enemy gets a clue that a sundie must be somewhere.

Now I tell you how to get these sundies:

1. The enemy logs off, joins my faction, spawn at my sundie, pulls C4 and destroys it - period.
2. The enemy logs off, joins my faction, spawn at my sundie, logs off to the enemy faction, pulls anything to destroy a sundie, comes back and ends the job - period.

So it's not rocket science to destroy any sunderer in this game - unfortunately DBG doesnt seem to implement a "change faction delay" like the one in PS1 to the game, this this will always happen...

Issue#1: 4th factioners (faction changing people) destroying the stealth Sunderer after spawning there
Solution: Disable friendly fire vs objects of the own faction (even the area effect). Wouldn't stop enemies from changing back to their other faction and wouldn't stop drawning attention by making noise but so far it's one step in the right direction.

Issue#2: Stealth bubble makes it easy to find stealth Sunderers due to their blurred area
Solution: Remove the bubble as effect visible to enemies. Especially when zooming in on a stealthed enemy Sunderer the blurred area around it is far more visible than the actual Sunderer itself. Either remove the visibility for enemies or adjust the values to match the actual Sunderer visibility.

Issue#3: Engine sound -> Despite being stealthed on radar the stealth Sunderer is just as loud as all the others.
Solution: Stealth levels should reduce the noise, it's hearable distance and the same should be the case for the deploy and undeploy noises by 15 / 30 / 45 / 60 / 75% (depending on stealth upgrade rank 1-5).

Issue#4: Repositioning -> Reveals the Sunderer and stops the spawns
Solution:
1) Redeploy:
Stealth Sunderers could recharge stealth while deployed, lasting up to 3 / 6 / 9 / 12 / 15s (depending on stealth upgrade rank 1-5) once undeploying, draining stealth while undeployed, losing stealth if no energy is left, recharging stealth energy while being deployed (upgrade ranks don't reduce the recharge time needed but just increase the total duration).

2) Spawns:
Add a new module for Sunderers: the Empire Spawn Beacon. Should look and work just like a regular spawn beacon with these changes:
-allows all players of the same faction to spawn there 1 / 1 / 2 / 2 / 3 times in total per player (depending on upgrade rank 1-5)
-range restriction for players allowed to spawn there is 180 / 210 / 240 / 270 / 300m (depending on upgrade rank 1-5)
-can be destroyed just like and with the same firepower as a regular spawn beacon (or an EMP)
-will self-destruct after 12 / 24 / 36 / 48 / 60s (depending on upgrade rank 1-5)
-has a spawn limit of 4 / 8 / 12 / 16 / 20 players spawned in total and will self-destruct after that
-cooldown should be static and something between 3min to 5min due to the harass potential this has along with all the other suggestions that'll never make it into the game
-> this allow repositioning without losing a spawn option (at least for some time); intended for all Sunderers

Interesting suggestion someone made: Weapon slots being replaceable with extra armor / shield gens to gain surviveability in exchange for firepower. I like that, especially considering that stealth Sunderers should be locked in most cases anyway.
Essentially you want to make sure your Sunderer can't be blown up by a single person and without time to react.
Note that your suggestion most likely would still allow instakills if the infantry can reload at a terminal and come back to get the job done with twice as much C4 / twice as many mines. In any case I'd exclude all other forms than C4 and AV mines from the damage reduction such tools would grant because they aren't instakill behaviour and working as they should.

Locked vehicle - game change desire:
-while there are free slots inside a vehicle it should be possible for anyone to get inside, just not to return fire
[debateable: unless the vehicle took damage recently (recently = 5s?)]
[debateable: locked in it's current state shouldn't exist for anything -> non-locked persons entering a vehicle with locked persons inside should just automatically make them swap seats with whatever seat they want to take or kick the locked person out if there's no more room and a non-locked person wants to enter; but weapon restrictions are only relevant for stealth Sunderers as it breaks their stealth]

...and btw.:
I still want the engineer repair tool to use right mouse button to remove AV mines so that there's no more targeting conflict with the left mouse button vehicle repair and the vehicle they're at which get's targeted by the beam instead of the AV mine I'm aiming at; also that AV mine removal should ignore line of sight as sometimes mines land under some vehicle part where they can't be targeted for removal due to that.

Scout radar flash has yet to fail me when searching for a stealth sundy. 150m of blips will always lead me to the location, smoke on the spot means even if I fail to kill it with mines or c4a friendly will take it out. Or I just pull an infiltrator, place a web of recon darts and reveal it that way. I love enemy stealth sunderers, free certs pretty much every time. It's without a doubt worse in every single way to a deployment shield sunderer that's been "hidden" from general LOS.

I would love if the stealth had an active jamming field that blocked radar signatures within 50-100m or so. Would readily trade that for the current cloak..

By the way, any sunderer placed 20-30 seconds of sprinting distance away from a battle will last for hours you're talking about a sunderer a 150+m away from a base. It's no longer a part of the battle and is mostly worthless, cloak or not, but at least the enemy won't kill it. Lol.