Implant system change seems like a terrible idea (Opinions)

I held my tongue when you changed the thermals because I can perceive the reasoning for that; tanks are overpowered against infantry and it's a balance change, fine, whatever, I spend 2/3rds of my time in a mag and I have no problem dealing with that legendarily massive nerf.

But this is ridiculous.
There's no rational gameplay reason to remove every implant everyone's worked so hard for, spent all that time grinding it out in the nano-cycler, just so you can sell implants to people who are willing to shred their certs or actual money on what is effectively a direct upgrade and something they can hold over people, especially rookies entering the game for the first time. All you're going to do is deter new players, and piss off veterans.
The only benefit to this is towards your wallet, and I understand that you want something people can buy endlessly, but it will undermine the entire structure and balance of the game in the process, so please think up something else!

I've spent maybe $200 on this game purely on cosmetics, and so far I've loved it and haven't complained about a single patch, hell this is probably my first forum post since beta, but if you make this change, and if I at any point have to spend certs or DBC to be as effective as someone who dumps $1000 straight into implants I will probably stop playing, because that in my books is pay2win, and I have no intention of playing what I perceive to be a pay2win game.

This will definitely ruin the game, so I implore you please RECONSIDER, and then take whoever thought this nonsense up out back and leave them to the nc shotgun maxes.

Thank you for reading my rant, I hope to be playing this game for years to come, but that's up to you daybreak.

Looks like they are bringing back some ideas from Planetside 1. Not needing energy is a good change. The random lotto implant system will not be missed by me a least.

I never read anywhere that these implants were solely purchasable with money. It looks to me like you can earn them over-time anyway, and break down extra's into iso-4 to upgrade your newly acquired implants. In fact, I just got onto PTS and I had a specific button saying "break down duplicates" and I got iso-4 or whatever it was from it, so that's exactly what you can do.

Also the implants and chargers you have will also be converted to iso-4, so your painstaking effort is taken with you and instantly useable to upgrade whatever implants you have at the start, and any subsequent implants you are going to earn.

I think the idea behind these new implants is good, although they should give new players a standard kit of two implants that at least evens out the power difference between a long-term player and a newby, and they should make some implants a bit less over-the-top or at least consider the implications and do something about it, like the new safe-fall making ejection-seat obsolete.

I don't mind no energy, energy is pretty much irrelevant right now anyway, but unless I start with 1 of each implant tier 1 it doesn't matter because I won't have anything to upgrade anyway, I'll be left burning thousands of certs or hundreds of dollars until I get that one implant I actually want or need, and I'll have to do this for every possible spec I have right now.

Money or not I don't want to be spending thousands of certs on something as tertiary and unreliable as rng implants when I could be investing in tangible goods like battle gals and flak maxes, the only people who won't be negatively affected by this are people who have a couple thousands certs in reserve and everything maxed out, or people with thousands of dollars to blow on this game, I am neither of those people, I would assume those people make up maybe 1% of this game.

I ran with my implants being selected but not powered most of the time so I doubt I'll notice much difference. If I do notice any difference it will probably be for the better, if I notice any at all.

I like the fact that this game changes from time to time. Keeps it a bit interesting and promotes game longevity. I didn't like it at first but either but eh, what are ya gonna do.

Again, what makes you think they are buyable by certs? I saw one picture where a cert-icon was involved, but those were placeholders until the green iso-4 icon could replace it. So my guess is that you still get implants randomly by just playing, and can then squish them in the nano-cycler for iso-4 so you can upgrade them.

i love the ideas,
and FINALLY no chargers!


all that needs to be done is some of the implants will need changing/removing.
(like stealth for everyone and full speed while crouching)
the new implant system as a whole seems very good,
no more RNG to get useful implants, you recycle your old implants into a material and then use that material to make the implant you want.

No RNG crafting.
No Chargers.
awesome!

bare in mind it is very early days, nothing is final yet, implants that are too OP will likely get canned.

According to faq they will be:
"
Do implants still drop the same way?
Implant packs will be purchasable via Certification Points and DBC from the depot.
"
(https://www.planetside2.com/news/new-implants-faq)

but I share some fears that it will be very antinewplayer thing. i wonder how many certs it will cost to fainaly obtain high-tier implants like minor cloak...

I can see it getting out of hand.
Leet heavies regenerating per kill constantly punishing your allies from rushing him to simply having a better heavy is a terrible idea.
Cloaking heavies on a point when you're looking for an infil also is bad. Allowing a player to equip two really powerful condensed implants can also be bad in some cases.

Safefall personally I can see being really stupid, not for infantry, but for bailing engineers in aircraft. The whole point of the ESF synergy buff was to buff engies and cut down on bail assaults. This and rocklets literally takes it two steps back.

But it's on pts, I can see a lot being done with this that is good for infantry play. It also seems good as an area of progression, if someone wants to specialize in specific roles, they can specialize moreso, I like this in general, as long as it's implemented well.

Although I understand and share your point of view, I'm going to reserve judgement until I see how they implement this revamped implant system.

I'm sure they're well aware that anything blatantly p2w will drive away more players than it'll attract.

But on that same note, I can also understand that they need new ways to generate revenue.

What I fail to understand is why change the implant system? You'd think they'd invest in better advertising instead. As it stands, most people I associate with, that share my passion for online gaming, would have never heard of PS2 had it not been for me telling them about it. They really need to focus on not just getting their name out there, but also on enhancing the gameplay.

Well, imho anyway....

Just to clear some things up. According to Wrel in this thread:





Also. I went on the test server and bought 5 packs (you seem to get 12 implants per pack) then broke them down into ISO-4 (the upgrade material)
And it gave me 590 ISO-4.
The pack also always contained a bunch of Tier 2 implants.
Not sure if thats the same pack thats going live though, or if its just a "test pack".
If the cert cost is similar to the current live implant packs, then im not really concerned about people paying money for these things.

Here are upgrade costs:
Tier 1 to Tier 2: 100
Tier 2 to Tier 3: 400
Tier 3 to Tier 4: 1500
Tier 4 to Tier 5: 3000

All in all, its not too bad in my opinion, it looks pretty good. Assuming they can make implants balanced.
And since they dont seem afraid to change/experiment with balance anymore, im not too worried.

What can go wrong when you can regenerate shield, health and overshield with headshots ? If something goes truly wrong, you still have the MLG kits at your disposal ! Don't get me started on becoming invisible as an heavy assault with a jackhammer. Overall, that's some serious cheese inbound with those new toys, and while I know Wrel wanted to give some "umph" to the implants, this is out of hand and just rewards MLG headshot pros/cheesers than anyone else, we'll see plenty of cyclone/beltegeuse/butcher heavies if this goes live in this state, since medics and engineers will just become a thing from the past.

New TR squad :

- 9 adrenalin heavies with butcher
- 2 revive bots, aka medics
- 1 engineer dropping ammo and putting a barrier.

For VS, just replace the engineer by a medic or a heavy w/ battlegoose.

Those will just mean endless pointfarm. Impossible to go through 9 people firing butchers unless you're a max, and don't expect to live long enough to tell about it. Same deal for beltegeuse, just more range than the butcher for less doorway control. HAside shall intensify.

Why need an engie? Ammo printer will give you 100 per minute.

Also, ammo printer is stupid.

Need to get dem regen + assimilation for unlimited shield and hp (as long as you're "headshotting"), engineers also allow non stop firing (literally), while ammo printer requires you to wait for 100 bullets. It's all about dat dakka.

I don't see how this is a money maker for them. If anything, it will bring them less?

The current system is at least a potential money maker: subscribing gives you extra drops that makes it much easier to stay powered up and you can purchase chargers directly (I think? I have spent a lot on this game but never been tempted by chargers.)

To my eye it looks like a system that's less of a PITA and I will actually get to use implants on all my characters, which I currently do not, and there does not appear to be a compelling reason to buy into it. Maybe a new player will, just to get the ball rolling, but since you can buy packs with certs, he doesn't necessarily have to do that either.


Gonna wait and see how it looks when it rolls out. I wanna know how well my current collection of implants rolls over. Sounds like they get converted into this new ISO-4 stuff so us veterans may just log in, build the implants we want and off we go, never to bother with it again.

I doubt the current system make them much money either. With a more consistent system, i.e. less RNG, people might want to buy implants so they more quickly can get their preferred implants. When you no longer need to worry about charges you can focus more on theorycrafting and creating interesting synergies.

This, I think, might cause some to be more willing to pay to get what they want faster. You could argue it is P2W but really it is pay to get ahead like with almost every F2P game out there.

It is also likely most of the implants which got scathing first impressions won't actually make it to live. Then again, if everyone have access to implants and can create powerful combos then no one is special and it becomes a level playing field in the end anyways. Additionally, it is a MMO so obviously there will be balance passes and since there are fairly simple values involved making these changes are not particularly time consuming.

That said, I really hope the cloaking implant doesn't make it into the game. Not even a heavily nerfed version.

How much Iso-4 are we getting per charger? Because I had like 50 of them stockpiled, plus one super-charger.

And I was actually keeping myself charged. ...I have no idea how i accrued so many chargers.

Disclosure time : I consider myself to be a very average player (at best).

• I mainly run infantry (primarily medic and some engy in a support capacity).
• I'm currently running around 1.4-1.5 K/D (would be better if I took less risks, but **** it, SOMEbody has to be first through the door, and all the HA's and MAX's are too busy corner peeking for kills to pad their K/D, so Imma charge while spamming sticky's! ).
• I maintain a relatively decent ~330 SPM, with ~26% accuracy and ~18% HSR (which again, would be better if I didn't shoot at anything that moved because I firmly believe that doing damage to somebody either 1) makes him easier for closer buddies or flankers to kill and 2) makes it more likely for him to cower in cover for 10 secs doing nothing while his shield regens).

I think this new implant system is horribleas currently listed.

First, the good things. Even with 45 days playtime, but without purchasing implant packs, I still haven't completed the Tier 4 set. Even if I had, I'm not sure I could afford the energy expenditure to RUN the T4 implants all the time. I'm currently sticking with T1 and occasionally T2 implants. I hate the energy system, and I'm glad it's gone. I hate the RNG, and I'm glad it's going away too. I'm glad that some of the more useless/situational/never-used implants are getting combined to make them more attractive.

Then, the ehhh-not-sure-about-that thing: More implant slots. Currently, there are very few implants listed, some which are so good they'll be everywhere and some that are very specific, so they'll only be used on certain builds. We're going to see a LOT of cookie-cutter repetition with everyone using the same things if the system goes live as is.

• Personally, I'd like to see implants broken up into two sections : Active and Situational. Active implants would apply most of the time, and would include things like Battle Hardened, or Regeneration while Situational implants would be less game-affecting, more situational, more utility focused such as Enhanced Targeting or Marker or Counter-Intelligence.
• Everybody would get ONE implant slot, in which they could equip any implant they liked. Subscribers would get a second slot limited to the utility implants. I don't think it would be game-breaking, but it would be a nice addition to the currently extremely underwhelming subscription benefits.

However, there is A LOT MORE bad than good, in my opinion.

• First off, and I know this is going to get me flamed, I firmly believe that the difference between the skill-floor and the skill-ceiling in this game is far too large. High-skill vets farm all the things, medium-skill vets manage to get by and low-skill or rookies just get **** on with predictable results for player-retention and cash-flow (which are important for those who weren't sure...... For example, I am not a bad - but a fight between me and a rookie can still go either way depending on who has the advantages, who makes the first mistake, etc.. However, there are many, many people who are so good that even 2-3:1, with all the advantages going our way, we will still lose, all three, nearly every time to them. As such, anything that further increases the skill ceiling and benefits these (admittedly excellent players) is a terrible idea imo. The good players are already good enough. They don't need any more advantages - their skill level is already reward enough for attaining! For example:
  • Given how expensive things currently appear to be, and the fact that you can only get them with certs/DBC, this appears to be a massive cuntpunch to new players and a buff to high-level cert-farmers who've already unlocked all the stuff they want (which is the exact opposite of how things should be).
  • Skilled HA's are already ridiculously powerful. Do we really need to give these wankers Battle Hardened AND Catlike, letting them spam-crouch as well like bloody jackrabbits on meth?
  • All this "on headshot" and "on kill" nonsense is only going to make the best players even more unbearable than they already are. Instead of needing to bring 3-4 buddies to take one of them down, now we're going to need 5-6. And they'll STILL kill most of us before we get him. And it's just a huge big "**** you" if he's got a medic hanging around somewhere as well with the damned Minor Cloak, ready to kill the last dude standing and immediately rez the damned HA.
  • Assimilate is only going to make a difference for the really good players... and they're already strong enough as it is, just from their skill. They don't NEED any more help!
• It looks like they've gotten rid of some useful implants like the conc/flash/EMP grenade resists. "Apparently" they're planning to include this in the legendary "Phase 2", but we all know how good DBG is about following through on Phase 2.......
• Minor Cloak is a TERRIBLE idea unless you're planning to implement Minor Overshield, Minor Jumppack, Mini-MAX etc. Also, you SAY 8 seconds is along time, but I regularly see vehicle terminals sitting for many times that without somebody coming by even in relatively large fights. Do we really want to allow invisible pump-shotgun HA's to camp terminals or point rooms or something?? You might as well just make DarkLight a standard feature on all guns if you want to do that.
• Ammo Printer is a direct nerf to Engies. Also, I'm strongly in favour of decent faction traits and think that this should be something that is a VS faction trait for specific VS weapons only... I can understand charging up a battery from excess energy in your shield capacitor, but creating bullets out of thin air for NC/TR? Bullcrap!
• Catlike is terrible. All it does is add another gimmicky maneouvre to combat. ADAD-spamming is silly enough but now throwing random crouching into it as well is just bonkers.

Does anyone know the Cert to ISO-4 ratio? How many Certs does 1 ISO-4 require on average?

Well it's DBG trying to figure this out alone (actually, they are trying to figure out how to *re-do* this again), so they will mess it up (again). This is exactly one of the things they always mess up: they don't have the kind of skill people involved to handle complicated systems that work well.

But the core model is basically *kinda* copying Hearthstone. And there are plenty of ways to make a Hearthstone model a money maker:
1) they can scrap the old Implant System (which probably didn't have lots of people buying into it anymore) and simply make people start paying from scratch for the new one.
2) they can continue to add new *must have* Implants over time, which makes the consumer need to pay to keep up.
3) at some point they'll need to add a system where older Implants (or some number of them) are no longer allowed in the "Standard Game". So that players will HAVE to get some new ones because their old ones are dying. (every CCG has to do this, or else new sets don't sell because they can't compete with the massive backlog of older sets).

They will probably skip 3, which will result in nobody buying new ones. So they'll maybe go either:
1) the Games Workshop (and Magic for some card types) route of making newer ones progressively more OP (so people will want them). but this method just destroys the game by designed in Power Creep that (most) players hate, auto-imbalances the game, and sets a each-new-release-must-be-OP template that is hard to keep up.
2) when they stop making money on the system, the scrap it and start a new 3rd System that players have to buy into again.

I don't think they can resist. This is exactly one of the mistake types they can't help do... again and again.

At the very least they could hire (or consult with) someone smarter in building complicated systems that work. But true to form they fail in that stage as well.

So you end up with a cash grab, that bear meager fruit, will eventually implode, and will anger and drive off people along the way.

My only complaint about the new system is that some of them seem too powerful. The cloak in particular seems pretty excessive as it removes the point of stalkers.

But dude, the old implant system was awful, it completely screwed over new players (as if they didn't have a hard enough time) and only encouraged you to get the best implants so you could then spend all your time trying to keep them fueled. I say good riddance. Turning them into permanent selectable perks will allow you to define your own style to a greater degree add meaningful changes to gameplay.

Don't be bummed because your losing your old crappy ones, because for the most part all of the previous ones are getting upgraded hard.