[Suggestion] Let's talk about zerg

So, who else thinks, that PS2 needs some mechanisms to counter massive, mindless zerg strategy? Right now numbers = win. Even if there is 55/45 it nearly always means that 55 side will win. What game mechanisms would you propose to counter zerg strategy? So mindless crap-organized zerg could be stopped by more thoughtful defense? Or maybe just population balance mechanisms, so defenders would quickly react to zerg and create counter-zerg? What do you think?

Orbital Strikes & forms of Artillery.

Well, Prowler is some kind of artillery unit. BUT I think I feel you - we need some stationary howitzers at Warpgate OR... carpet bombing from galaxies! Maybe second kind of galaxy loadout - not as transport vehicle (so it can have only pilot and 4 ppl on guns), but with pilot capable of dropping bombs on the ground.

No take advantage of the zerg by attacking another base and force the pop to move. With what you're saying if someone gets warp gated by early morning play they would have no way to move out.

And now it's different? One faction is trying to get out from warpgate and suddenly 8 galaxies appear dropping people everywhere? They got destroyed because of overpop and will be destroyed until enemy zerg just goes away. And they will just leave continent until zerg will dissolve. If there are two full platoons zerging around you have no hope of winning if you don't have 2 full platoons too.

So you're proposing an I win button because a faction ignored a continent? Battle has always been a numbers game throughout history I don't think this should be any different. I've never had an issue as a platoon leader moving enemy forces where I want them to be. This game is so predictable, I can't believe people are still crying about zergs.

This game isn't just an fps game, it's an rts game as well and as soon as people get that the game will be in better shape.

There is an awesome counter to Zergs. Press P.

Seriously, don't lone wolf. When running in a squad or platoon you can take on forces twice your size. Maybe even quadruple your size if you've run with the same group for a while (like outfits that run daily squad ops).

There are times when a zerg just gets too big to deal with and stalemates against your own zerg. But the wonderful thing is, you can ignore them. One of the best ways to counter say a 50 tank zerg is to just up and leave. That's right, let them have the base. It takes 4, 7, or 10 minutes to take a base. So let them have it. They can't simply mow down the lattice due to time constraints.

In the mean time you can attack at least 2-3 other points on the map in that faction's territory. To counter you, they have to redeploy. The wonderful thing about this is most zergs are coordinated enough to redeploy, they won't notice. And even if they do. They have to ditch their tanks, wasting over 20k in nanites to do it.

Numbers win battles, but they don't win alerts, and they cannot capture continents. You need coordination for that. Stop focusing on the one base. You can trade it to the zerg and get 2-3 bases in return. Which means you're still winning. But yeah there you go, the best way to deal with an unbeatable zerg is to ignore it. That's a waste of population when they do it. Don't waste your own.

To put it shortly. A zerg at one base is numbers not present at another, take advantage of that.

Speaking on coordinated groups.. if you've got the numbers and they're working well together.. you can do what I call a "Zergbreak'. Basically fight the zerg and defeat them headon. It can be tricky to pull off, but if you do. You will likely cause a mass logoff on that faction. Allowing you to focus on the other faction instead. Sometimes it takes a few base captures.

This effect is where most people think fourth factioning happens. When the numbers during an alert shift. Its not that they are logging to the winning side. They are just getting trounced and log off for the night. Zergbreaking is a very effective tool that can give you an advantage for hours at a time.

Many people lone wolf. Many of them do so because they are just logging in for a few hours at a time after work or whatever. Make their life hell and they'll log off to go watch netflix or something else 'more productive'. If you can identify a large concentration of these players and pound them to the dirt, you'll likely win the next alert or two.

orbital strike seem perfect solution

Pull vehicles from adjacent bases. Sometimes when you've lost the base trying to infantry push against numbers to the point just gets you farmed. Recognize when the base is lost and try to retake it from the outside. Vehicles> infantry zerg.

Ghost cap>zerg.

Nothing will conquer a zerg faster than empty bases. Zerg rolls on base, encounters 0 resistance. Zerg will not wait for base to cap. Half will redeploy, other half will fan out to adjacent bases.

You can't really change the zerg. Some bases require it and cannot be taken by even numbers no matter how coordinated the attackers are. Mekala auxillary, indar excavation, pretty much every biolab and amp station. So many bases REQUIRE 25% more attackers just to have a chance. Even then sometimes its a crapshoot and you need even more zerg.

What Scr1n said but that can easily abused without proper uh, counter abuse measures. A colossal tank could help asits a massive tank that's can take on multiple vehicles and anti-armor infantry.

I'd rather talk about Terran or Protoss

some kind of penalty if you die a lot ( with in a time frame ) maybe also gives medics a more important role ( getting revived don't counts as a death )

A heat spawn in mechanism on sundies ( let's say after x spans the sundie must rest for x time )

God or bad you dicide

Pretty much this.

All of those bases can easily be taken from a zerg. Well easy is relative. For the outfit who runs together quite a bit and can drop a good force on points and hold them well, with back ups ready in case things go south. It can go well. Many have issues with this, and many others lonewolf so they can't do anything anyway.

Biolabs can all be taken with a single squad. But its tricky. If your own zerg attacks a biolab, you can't take it. Zergs screw up biolab attacks. However you can wait till the zerg gets trounced and falls back. Then you hit the SCU gen, then drop the SCU. While your zerg falls back, the defenders are likely to redeploy or follow. Allowing you to get in and drop the gens.

As long as NO point is touched, it takes a minute to redeploy to the biolab. If you drop the SCU then redeploy is impossible and requires a Gal drop. A gal drop that has to be done in two minutes or you cap the biolab as the capture timer for biolabs drops to 2-3 minutes when the SCU goes down.

This method of taking Biolabs is so effective its considered an exploit by some members of forumside. I've been able to pull it off in 2v12 and 4v24 in the defenders' favor. Its some really ninja sh-t when you pull it off and its not terribly hard. However its not foolproof. Smart outfits and squads will move to stop you if they realize what you are doing. Thankfully that's actually rather rare. They're usually the first to pull out of a biolab when it goes in their favor so they can press the attack elsewhere.

But occasionally they have stragglers that sometimes get vocal in voice.

Valkyrie cluster bombs have been previously suggested. The Galaxy should not, will not, and will never receive additional weapons or loadouts that enhance its combat abilities.

You don't need a Gal to defend a biolab with the scu down. Sunderer under the base, under an air pad or at a jump pad or at a warp room work just as well.

Most of what your saying to do to take a biolab works because you can do it fast enough you will still have a numbers advantage. bring 12-24 guys to an empty biolab you might get lucky and not have 12-24 guys show up before you flip it. Again supporting my theory that certain bases pretty much require you too have more attackers.

Most players know defending biolabs is easy farm mode and jump at the chance to hold down a choke point. Making holding those points a real chore.

Taking a base with 24 enemies in it with 4 guys sounds like divine intervention more than anything you can actually count on to work regularly. How do 4 guys hold the scu, the shield gen, the points, and the v terms (a single sunderer makes dropping the SCU moot, repairing the gen, or the scu while you're capping points makes dropping the scu first moot, if you're defending the scu you're not defending a point)?

Answer: they don't at least not 999x out of 1000.

If a single squad could always take a base from a zerg. Or defend against a zerg...why so much love for zergs. I mean why is zerging such a HUGE topic on the forums? All it takes is 1 coordinated group of 12 guys to derail the entire thing...

Its only one of the 'issues' people talk about on the forums. Most other issues can simply be solved by joining a squad. Many lonewolf or 'run with the zerg'. Which is why they run into the issues they complain about. That includes dealing with air, vehicles, C4, and so forth.

When you 'run with the zerg' yes, numbers are all that matter. But a good squad can equal up to 4x its number. I've personally been in two squad platoons and held off 96+ zergs in the bases listed above. It can get a bit rocky, but its far from impossible.

they've compounded the zerg problem by constantly making bases as undefendable as possible and also lowering the cap time for bases.
the zerg rolls in, park their sundies closer to the capture point than the defenders spawn and the base is their before any retaliation can be concocted.
then they roll on to the next base to repeat.

i remember when bases could be defended, you could hold the A point in your tower giving valuable time for backup to arrive.
or even better, the epic fortress that was the Crown, the ultimate zerg stopper!

• Zerg is tactics;
• Tactics are legitimate;
• Zergs tend to peter out on EU servers after 3 or 4 base captures or get met by stiffening resistence.

We don't need more uber death weapons in the game, just better counter tactics (like recapping bases behind them after the zerg moves on, or falling back in front of them until they get bored, or a counter push on another front, or flanking attacks to divert their push and split their coherence, or dense minefields and air strikes).

Of these, I've found that leaving a few stalkers behind, recapping a base and leaving the zerg out front with no lattice link (i.e. no resource resupply) works well.

I am never entirely sure what to tell people. But mindless crap-organized zergs are still more organized than whatever resistance they come up against that are of lower numbers. Keeping a lot of people in a firm direction still accounts for a lot. And even then, they can often be hampered quite easily by destroying their spawns (because **** me we are almost 4 years in and tanks are still busy looking at spawn rooms trying to get one kill, and woops they died in two seconds by being shot from behind).
Organized small groups can absolutely counter zergs, problem is a lot of people think they are really organized but couldn't come up with a solid strategy even if it drop podded on top of their head.

Some form of indirect explosive would be nice. It could help bust vehicles camping spawn pads.