[Suggestion] Nerf the Commissioner

The time has come. Even though it's my favorite pistol and my first and currently, only, auraxium, it deserves a nerf, I'll show the stats and explain why. The thread is actually serious, and I'm going to try my hardest to prove that it's a bit too good with facts and hard-earned experience. Feel free to say no if you disagree and prove me wrong. Also long thread ahead.

So, why shouldn't other pistols just get buffed? Except for getting 1x+2x reflex sights and buffing the exceptionally bad ones, they really don't deserve it. Sidearms are meant to be your desperation weapons, because they're supposed to have lower range and DPS since primaries are your primary DPS dealers, fill a role your primary doesn't fill and finish off your opponents instead of killing them from full health. And from a realism stand-point, come on. How can a small, compact handgun out-compete an Assault Rifle unless the handgun user is sneaky/the AR user is significantly worse than the pistol user.

1. The statistics (Taken from Oracle of Death)

Total kills on January 21st 2016
VS NS-44 Commissioner : 6 346
Beamer VS3 : 4 115
VS NS-354 Underboss : 1 543
Spiker : 885
Manticore SX40 : 635
Cerberus : 376

NC NS-44 Commissioner : 5 801
NC-04 Mag-Shot : 5 253
LA8 Rebel : 1 340
LA3 Desperado : 1 739
NC NS-354 Underboss : 1 164
NC-08 Mag-Scatter : 273

TR NS-44 Commissioner : 5 850
TX1 Repeater : 5 925
TR NS-354 Underboss : 1 559
T4 AMP : 1 374
TX2 Emperor : 894
TS2 Inquisitor : 582


KPU (Also on January 21st)

VS NS-44 Commissioner : 4,27
Beamer VS3 : 2,61

NC NS-44 Commissioner : 4,31
NC-04 Mag-Shot : 2,57

TR NS-44 Commissioner : 4,09
TX1 Repeater : 2,79

KPH

VS NS-44 Commissioner : 21,29
Beamer VS3 : 11,43

NC NS-44 Commissioner : 21,54
NC-04 Mag-Shot : 12,5

TR NS-44 Commissioner : 21,73
TX1 Repeater : 13,48

Uniques

VS NS-44 Commissioner :1 485
Beamer VS3 : 1 576

NC NS-44 Commissioner :1 428
NC-04 Mag-Shot : 2 037

TR NS-44 Commissioner :1 344
TX1 Repeater : 2 118

BR100 Kills

VS Commissioner : 1 955
All non Blackhand/QCX pistols combined : 1638
(Do I really need to show other factions and BR100 stats? It's the same story with similar number differences).

I didn't want to compare the NS-44 Blackhand and Hunter QCX, because they aren't really sidearms and aren't used as desperation weapons and more like tools meant for Stalker Infiltrators, while I didn't want to compare other pistols in KPH, KPU or uniques because the kills speak for themselves : they are so under-used in comparison to other pistols that their uniques are insanely low, but their KPH and KPU is higher than the starters because they're pulled less than the starters. None of them really match the popularity of either.

The difference between the Commissioner and other pistols is insane. And no, other pistols aren't bad (There are exceptions of course) because they do their job for backing you up if you run out of ammo or if you need to finish your opponent off, it just takes a bit of finesse.

2. The Stats

The Commissioner deals 450 damage up to 8m dropping off to 225 damage at 42m. Reloads at 3 seconds short and unless you empty both clips, it's going to stay at 3 seconds. The long reload is at 4 seconds. With a rate of fire of 172 RPM (2,83 RPS), it's TTK is at 0,7 seconds. Now, on paper, the Commissioner looks like a slightly worse Underboss that has higher velocity and can pull 3 shot kills at longer range and has an advantage against Nanoweave users.

(From this point on, I'm talking about my personal experience with the weapon and the situations I find myself in when pinned in pistol fights, ignore this part if you want but I recommend that you read it because it shows why it's OP in my eyes).

On paper, it seems fine, but when you compare them on the field, the Commissioner is at a huge advantage in pistol versus pistol fights because of it's accuracy and other major benefits.

You see, when you want to maximize DPS and fasten your TTK on a semi-auto/burst weapon, you spam click. Because almost every sidearm is a semi-auto/burst fire, you'll be doing this most of the time. But because of the pretty fast rate of fire, you're not going to be very accurate and you can only do it up to 8m with a burst or 12m with a semi-auto.

However, the Commissioner doesn't have this problem at all and almost always achieves it's 0,7 second TTK unless you miss. Because the rate of fire is so low, the cone of fire (And recoil) is mostly reverted and returned to it's previous place, so it has better accuracy and much less strict hip-fire limitation in comparison to others, so you can hip-fire up to 15m decently.

A second advantage it has over other pistols is it's TTK consistency. In the current meta, nanoweave armor is pretty commonly used, I for one use it on 3 classes constantly, so it will raise the TTK on most weaponry. Because of the damage model, the Commissioner doesn't suffer from this either and can kill max rank nanoweave targets with unchanged TTK up to ~15m.

Commonly pistols are used as finishers, and because the Commissioner's damage is so high, after you landed some shots on a target it'll usually be a 0,35 second TTK, significantly faster than some other pistols and even primaries in similar situations.

Another big advantage of the Commissioner is Infiltrator versus infiltrator combat. From experience, I can freely say that most sidearm use is seen from Infiltrators because they often use snipers and occasionally scout rifles so they need to use their sidearms more than others due to their guns being ineffective at CQC. Since infils have only 900 total HP (400 shields, 500 health) and since the Commissioner does 450 damage up to 8m, within those 8m the 0,7 TTK is lowered to 0,35 second TTK, or if you manage to land a headshot, an instakill. Again, from experience most pistol fights occur at about ~10m, so you either have to fight the cone of fire limitations as you maximize DPS or burst your shots a bit slower (While your opponent doesn't) or shorten your opponent's TTK by half. It's pretty close to an auto-win, although a vastly skilled player can out-play his opponent.

Really, the only disadvantage it has is that it reloads really slowly in comparison to other pistols and not being able to equip a suppressor. It does every role a pistol can except long range, but no pistol except the Blackhand can do it.


3. The solution

I'd honestly reduce the maximum damage from 450 to 445, so non-commissioner infiltrators at least have a fairer fight against those who use it. Still a bit unfair, but it's a start.

The second and last thing I'd like to see for it is proper CoF bloom and recoil. Because of the before-mentioned CoF reversal it's always as accurate as if you didn't fire it in the first place. If this was added, maybe there would be some actual skill required to use and master it.

Thanks for making it this far.

No no no, you're doing it wrong OP.

Commie already got nerfed, the answer is to buff the ESS's.

Seriously though, I don't know how you can nerf the commie that won't make it useless.

Underboss fits shorter range, faster RoF and more controllable mold of same caliber,

Increasing STK would completely destroy the weapon.

A few ES Pistols are doing fine... Repeater most namely being the best of all ESP's. Spiker (aka VS burst pistol cause charge mode is useless) and NC burst pistols are close seconds.

Just pass around some MINOR buffing to all the other secondaries.

Commie is still second fiddle to any primary weapon. It's a good strong pistol that feels like a decent backup weapon. Most of the rest I'll only ever whip out if the enemy is down shields and 50% health, otherwise I'll take my chances sprinting for cover to reload instead.

I see that you have put a lot of thought into this thread, however, I 110% disagree. First of all, it already was nerfed in order to make it so that no one could pull a one shot with the commissioner-quick knife combo. Now I know that "it was already nerfed" does not justify not nerfing something again, I mean look at max ravens. However, the stats that you posted about how there are thousands of more kills with the commissioner than other pistols does not support your point. This is simply because more people use them, not necessarily because it is better. You are mistaking a positive correlation for cause and effect.

Secondly, most other pistols have a much higher rate of fire, and therefore a much larger chance of getting headshots and also a much quicker reload speed. The commissioner has a pretty slow reload speed and horrendous rate of fire in exchange for higher damage. This is a basic way to balance a weapon and the dev's have done a very good job with this weapon in particular. Also, the range of the commissioner is perfectly fine where it is, seeing as how the huge recoil makes for a very slow fire rate if the shooter wishes to maintain accuracy at the range you are talking about, especially when aiming down site. I know this from experience so don't try to argue that with me.

In conclusion, I respectfully must call the idea of nerfing the commissioner "********" in every way possible.

i disagree... didnt you recently in another thread say your main is br44 or something.. you may need some more time under your belt before you start calling things OP

Make the Commissioner and Underboss have LMG level hipfire, forcing ADS to hit anything, and take away the dot sights so they have to use iron sights.

OR.

Buff all ES pistols 1-2 damage tiers and give them dot sights.

More people use them because they are better.

Or we could always nerf the Beamer.

Beamer too purple, pls nerf

It's kinda sad to see mag-scatter at the bottom since it's such a fun weapon to use

E: On topic: Even though I've probably been against commissioner more than most people, I wouldn't necessarily like seeing my old arch enemy nerfed, but rather have the worst performing sidearms buffed(Not necessarily using above stats to justify them though)

As a man with a background in systems analysis and statistics (degree is in Political Science with a focus on international relations and public policy), it is my sworn duty to point out to you that all of your statistics--that is to say, the actual evidence you are purporting to substantiate your claim--can be attributed to the weapon's popularity.

In statistics we call what you have here a spurious correlation.

The MINIMUM they could do for ES pistols is give them x1 & 2x optics.

Could u explain how KPH and KPU can be strongly attributed to the weapon's popularity (obv except the fact that the more people play it the better they become at using it) And if that is the case can u show me one or few statistics taken from that site that can be used as a better indicator of a weapon(not this specific one but any) being OP.

TTK comparison:
https://ps2model-axiom.rhcloud.com/#sttk/sh25-10-10/la/1/13/2/12/70013/70012

DPM comparison:
https://ps2model-axiom.rhcloud.com/#dpm/la/1/13/2/12/70013/70012

as you can see, within the 10m range which is common for the use of sidearms, the repeater and the two NS pistols have the same ttk. the Commissioner outshines the repeater and underboss in terms of damage per mag but therefore it looses in reloadspeed and often enough the underboss and repeater are simply better in fighting against commi users because they are easyer to controll.

But all 3 of those fast ttk pistols have 1 thing in common: low damage per mag. beamer and mag shot do have more damager per mag than those faster killing weapons and are good to controll. they are no bad weapons and a must go for everyone who wants to use silenced weapons.
the commissioner is a good weapon and it is balanced. the only thing that is simply not necessary it the possibility to OHK infiltrators with a headshot (never understood those 100 less shields since the cloak has enough drawbacks).

Are you saying that because of realism or game mechanics?

For realism sake there is a reason why pistols and sidearms are superior to rifles (assault, carbine, battle, smg, ect). They're lighter. They're one handed. They're smaller. They're easier to draw and aim, and faster. They have higher caliber and more stopping power in their effective range. The ammo is shorter and lighter.

There's a reason why police officers and agents in various fields use pistols instead of rifles for normal duties. Rifles have their place, but so do sidearms. The reason soldiers and marines use rifles is the range. Its best not to get too close to the enemy. But a pistol, just like melee weapons and hand to hand combat is still useful. When you're up close, you need stopping power.

From a game mechanic standard.... why should sidearms be substantially weaker? Everyone gets one. Everyone gets the same ones (with each faction having their own flavor). Why even have them for sale if they're just a desperation weapon? Make them fun, people will use them. People will buy them. In the end it is a game and there shouldn't be simply mechanics that are arbitrary. Sidearms are limted by range or in most cases, by volume of fire. So why punish them further?

I'd like to see the ES sidearms that are lagging behind to be buffed. I'd like to see them do different things. Make them as varied in use and capability as primaries. Heck I wouldn't be opposed to them being superior to primaries in certain circumstances.

With that said, leave the Revolvers alone at least don't nerf damage or accuracy. Increase the DPS, lower the TTK of the ES Semi-autos. Semi-Auto needs more volume of fire.

Here's what I would do. Give the revolvers a quarter second delay (maybe slightly less) on firing. They're double action revolvers right? If you don't **** the hammer back.. there's a delay since the trigger pull has to be pulled back rather than squeezed to get the cylinder to move and the hammer to pull back and release.

To compensate.. allow the user to press B (fire mode) to pull the hammer back. This allows it to fire as soon as the weapon is activated. To avoid macro users getting an advantage, pulling the hammer back takes the same time as the delay. I'd also get rid of the long reload time. Reloading one round is the same as reloading four or six (nanite-assisted speed loaders).

Then give Semi-autos the advantage of well.. being semi automatic. They are cocked and ready to go when reloaded (hence the long reload). In otherwords, they remain the same. Not quite sure how to buff them further other than give them optics. But the change to revolvers should bring everything in line with each other.

But some ESS do need some love.

No handgun that is practical to carry is anywhere near as potent as pretty much any rifle. The reason people that aren't in a warzone carry handguns instead of rifles is that rifles are bulky and in the way, and handguns, while far less effective, still fulfill the first rule of a gunfight, which is to bring a gun.

Try this.

Fire a M1911 .45 at a target at the range. Then fire your choice of rifle (that you can reasonably carry in combat (AK-47, M16, whatever).

Tell me the difference in the size of the holes.

The only rifle that can match the stopping power of a pistol within 10m is the Beowulf. But you only get like 10 rounds in the mag, and that's not an anti-personal round so it'd be a waste.

Do a little research, actually do what I've done and ask people who've done it. And see what the preferred weapon of a Tunnel Rat was. Wasn't a M14, wasn't a M16 either.

Lol. Don't attempt to sound authoritative after trying to use the size of a hole in a paper target as an arguing point in a discussion about terminal ballistics. You clearly have no actual knowledge about the subject. Wound channels are affected by a lot more than bullet diameter, and a 5.56 traveling sideways through a torso, even if it doesn't fragment, does drastically worse things to that torso than any .45 acp.

And tunnel rats used handguns, sawed off shotguns, and SMGs for reasons of space constraints, not because they are more effective than a rifle (other than the shotguns, those actually would be more effective at those ranges).

A rifle round at close range is going to over penetrate before inflicting all of its energy, come on guy, you don't even need to have fired a firearm for real to know that. The only way for a rifle round such as a 7.62x39 is going to do more up close is if its hollow point and not FMJ. But then you lose the purpose of using it as a rifle, for the range when you do that.

That's an expanding 230 grain .45 acp.



That's a 55 grain FMJ 5.56.

Both fired at 10 feet.

See where that 5.56 yaws inside and the apocalypse happens? Notice that the block used for the 5.56 is significantly taller than the one used for the .45, to show how much greater the temporary wound channel is. All that expanding and collapsing is what happens to internal organs in addition to the actual permanent wound channel from the bullet itself.



There's a 7.62x51 just for funzies.

Still think that .45 acp is super bad asser than a rifle?

Handguns are compromises, plain and simple.

You didn't need a wall of text, because facts are in front of the eyes of every player: the Commissioner is by far superior to any other pistol in this game.
The only reason why not many complain is it's a ns sidearm so everyone can have it.

Does this mean it needs to be nerfed? I'm not so sure.
Surely sidearms need a balance pass, some are very lacking compared with heavy revolvers.