Cut the Gatekeeper rage!

It doesn't.

A level 1 cahrge is 150 damage, a level 2 is ... **** can't remember, but a level 3 is 750.
And each level comes with +75/100 meters or so of extra range, and +100 m/s per level.

So it's the other way around. Resistances are the same, damage levels rise exponentially.

lancer does indeed more damage per rocket to a sunderer, even if it ends up killing it in the same number of hits.

lancer has 8 "rockets" instead of 5, and lock on works until 300 meters, while lancer deals full damage untill 400m, doing still damage untill 1000(?) meters.
that comes with no need of compensation for drop, and the bullet travels at 800 m/s so even if your target is moving it's pretty much fried anyway.
it means that with a lock-on if you are alone and you want to drop a sundy you simply won't be able to do that if you miss a single rocket (which is more likely to happen when compared to lancer) or even if the driver heals the sundy for a bit.
also comparing lancer with a dumb-fired RL is like apples and oranges, a fairer comparison would be with a lock on launcher (which requires time to lock-on stuff) but still, lancer has far more power in some areas and absolute zero effectiveness on other areas, so it wouldn't be worth anyway.

how about you anchor your squad of prowlers 600m away from the warpgate and nuke the crap out of anything that dares leave.

Not quite, here, i'll math it.


Basic vehicle resistance - Sunderer's and MBTs have 4000 health each.


Firstly, the Lancer's stats.



Note the Six shots, not eight. Firing one shot is 1 ammo, charging to level 2 is 2 ammo, charging to level 3 is 3 ammo. Damage starts dropping off at ~450-500 meters, if i'm remembering correctly - last time I dug the info out, I seem to recall that damage dropped off to about 75-80% of it's maximum at max range, but let's look at the damage prior to any dropoff, so say around 400 meters.

The Sunderer has -100% resistance to Lancer shots (It looks like I was wrong above, the Vortex is the one with variable resistance at different Charge levels, the Lancer is consistently -100% resist for sundies / MBTs.)

So, at 3 charges, that's 750 base damage. Now, apply resists.

The standard damage formula is
Final Damage = Base damage * |((Resistance / 100) - 1)| * |((Armor / 100) -1)|

So, basically
(Base damage) * (1 - weapon resist) * (1 - vehicle resist)
(750) * ( 1 - (-1)) * ( 1 - .45)
(750) * ( 2 ) * ( .55 )
825 damage
To kill a Sunderer, that is indeed 5 triple charge shots, which is correct in my above post, 30 second TTK (Although the final shot only really needs to be 2 charge, I believe, so you can shave that down to 29.)

825 damage is actually what's applied to a sunderer with a 3-charge lancer shot. Now, let's do the same for standard rocket launchers.

Sundies have -12.5% resistance to standard rockets. The default rocket launchers have 1135 base damage. Lock-on capable rockets do 1000 (Grounder, Hades, Nemesis, etc)

Default and Lockon, respectively:
(1135) * (1 - (-.125)) * ( 1 - .45) 702.28 - This will require 6 shots to top 4000 damage, so 26 second TTK.
(1000) * (1 - (-.125)) * ( 1 - .45) 618 - This will require 7 shots, or a 31.2 second TTK.

For fun, Decimators are 1335 base damage,
(1335) * (1 - (-.125)) * ( 1 - .45) = 826 Damage versus a Sunderer, 5 rockets to kill, reload speed of 5.7 - A Decimator will remove a Sunderer in 22.8 seconds with 5 shots, 4 reloads required.

So, to summarize - versus a Sunderer:

• Lancer has a 29 second TTK

• Default Dumbfire has a 26 second TTK

• Standard Lockons have a 31.2 second TTK when not waiting for lock (Dumbfire mode)

• Decimators have a 22.8 second TTK

This means two things - The Wiki's table of rockets-to-kill is wrong (Or, my math derped somewhere)

And the Lancer is a bit better versus Sunderers then I thought, the Default launchers still win, but Lock-ons loose by 2.2 seconds. As i expected, Decimators are still the best when it comes to pure firepower.

Show me the stats that prove that the GK is dominating, and you won't win the "most inane post of the week" award for saying the GK is 'indefensible'.

Lock on and Dumbfires do not share the same damage resistance.
Lock ons are: Medium Anti Armour Ordnance
Dumbfires are: Dumb fire Rocket launcher

Sunderers have -50% to MAAO, making lock-ons deal 1500 damage.
http://planetside.wikia.com/wiki/Vehicle_armor_and_damage_resistance

See my posting history for the last 3-9 days or so - You'll find anything from a basic by-kills overview of each weapon's performance, multiple screenshots of stats per-day since release (Only 3 different snapshots, if i'm remembering correctly), a complete overview of it compared to the Enforcer / Saron, excel charts including TTK compared to the Saron (Both in full burstfire mode at 300 RPM, and dropping to 120RPM for accurate fire) and a number of other things.

I did my best to keep it all objective, at worst, it's blob of data with interpretation that you may or may not agree with.

I never said lancer had more damage on a sundy than a standard dumb-fire only RL, I was referring to lock-on RLs. comparing something able to land 100% accurate shots until 1000 meters to something meant to be dumbfired is not usefull imho.

and i'm not sure your math/the wiki is correct because a lock-on rocket launcher kills a sundy in 5 hits (not sure about annhilator).

and lancer has 8 total rockets, you have 6 in your back pack and 2 loaded into the gun.

It's not the same and you know it. Is it an effective tactic? For sure. Is it the same as being able to drop an insta-gib raven/lancer/Phoenix squad on the top of any mountain in the game? Not at all.

The versatility of long range, infantry and max based AV that is effective is undeniable by anyone with half a brain for tactics. Fact is, prowlers can do nothing a vanguard or magrider can't do. They can just do it more effectively. (Bombarding from range) Fact is, all of TR's empire specific infantry based AV is not effective at range. Which is why, instead of lancer and raven squads we drop AV engie turret squads.

But, this topic is getting derailed, we should only be talking about vehicle mounted secondaries really.

AHA, that's the piece I was missing, thanks for that. I'll redo this later.

Lode tossed a correction my way, i'll post a corrected / updated table later.

If the Vanguard shield is an "I win" shield to you, then sorry, you're just not good at tanking.

The Vanguard shield is an "I escape" shield, not an "I win" shield, if it feels like that to you, you're not fighting them right.

I would like to tell you that oracle of death proved that the GK is EXTREMELY over performing than the enforcer and saron in almost every stat

It's 5 shots to kill stock/stealth/repair/ammo sundies, which is the same as decimator but with quicker reloads. It is worse versus every other target though than Dumbfire/deci.

it is my opinion btw that some resistance value had been modified somewhere after wrel's review of the gun.(3:12 for the sheet showing the data about vehicles shots-to-kill)



all other data seems correct (not checked them all) so it probably wasn't intended and it really should be reverted in the way it was during that review IMHO.
this strange "damage bonus" to sundies is pretty much not public knowledge, probably also cause it was unintended.

Hey, wait a minute. You're the dude that argued that the revamped Striker was all well and good the moment it rolled out to live, even though pretty much everyone agreed that it was hilariously -- hilariously -- underpowered. And it's still a piece of garbage against ground vehicles and competent ESF pilots.

Oh, and since when is the GK an outright upgrade? With a lower TTK than the Halberd and the fact that it lacks burst damage, it's much less useful at close range, or in cases where enemy vehicles are competent enough to make use of cover. There's also the fact that the Halberd is much better at dispatching infantry at close / mid-range, but who cares about that, right?

Someone from another thread posted several data sheets proving that the GK's performance is mostly on par with the Saron and the Enforcer -- but I suppose it's all fabricated, or it isn't legitimate because your anecdotal experience doesn't square with reality.

Underpowered? Pft no. Too niche for some people's tastes? That's more like it.

Here's the thread in question, a little ways down in the first page. Bottom line: Gatekeeper isn't game-breakingly OP, or arguably OP at all. You don't get to nerf it into the ground with a sledgehammer.

It's ok, let them have their toy.
VS' superior playerbase, coordination and tactics will carry them through. After all, GK hasnt affected the alert win percentage at all. VS are still sitting comfortably at 40%. GK has made literally zero difference in the grand scheme of things.

Oh, and other factions need to git gud.

VS, did I do it right?

Man you re either a very good troll or downright crazy.The Striker wasnt underpowered?This statement invalidates anything else you could possibly say.

Get your sh*t together!