Let's play 'Spot the OP Pounders'

Because it is a MAX default weapon. Compare it with the right arm Falcon and Comet, you will see similar figures. If you only look at BR100 usage times however, things are different.

If the other options are worse, then yes they do.

And this is why most TR have given up. Even with the obvious deficit, people still sit here complaining about OP TR and cry for nerfs.

Then why do people use Pounders, which, according to the numbers, are not performing very well at AI compared to dedicated MAX AI and not performing very well at AV compared to dedicated MAX AV?

I was going to make that point initially but didn't think an average of less than 5 kills-per-metric was worth arguing over.

Because they do both in the same loadout ? Good versus infantry and dont leave you caught out if run into a vehicle

If they actually worked well against Vehicles and the numbers reflected that, your allegation would be easier to swallow.

I might agree with the OP if Pounders weren't incredibly good against other Maxes. You basically get an anti max weapon that doesn't trade much against normal infantry. And your not even caught with your pants down if you roll across a vehicle. That's not something the other 2 factions can do. You can't underestimate a jack-of-all-trades weapon.

Pounders need rebalancing to be less effective on normal infantry but more effective on vehicles. In general, both fractures and pounders need to be looked at again.

You can't make that allegation when the numbers are in the first post. Pounders have 1/2 the KPH on infantry versus TRs best AI gun and worst faction series (apparently the onslaught). I feel like a nerf in Pounder AI is justified, if Mercies or other AI guns are buffed.

U wot m8? I never said it was on par with AI weapons. I just said that you didn't give up all of your AI capabilities while still getting devent AV and anti max abilities.

All the stats show is that pounders aren't particularly efficient at killing infantry. I assure you that they are still pretty effective against infantry. Enough so that I usually take dual pounders over anything else on my TR alt.

The problem with the Pounder isn't that they are great at general AI work (they are ok, certainly), the problem with the Pounder is that in some places they are totally amazing at AI and AI suppression.

The only other thing that really comes close to that role is the Lasher for VS and Falcon for NC (but the Falcon is significantly worse, although it is still pretty good AI-wise, but mostly at distance).

I don't know that the Pounder needs a nerf, but equally it's one of the main things that makes TR so couple a point camping inside buildings and camping spawns in general and biolab spawns in particular.

That is a false arguement, Pounders aren't used as generalist AI weapons, they are used (to very great effect) as AI suppression weapons.

The closest thing to them would have been the Grenade MAX arms that they abandoned because they were too OP'd, now the Pounder isn't remote as bad, but still it sits in an AI suppression role, rather than a direct generalist AI role (like the Mercy)...... whilst retaining very decent close/mid range AV and Anti-MAX capabilities.

Actually many of the reasons the Fractures were nerfed, although the Fracture 1.0 was much, much better/worse.

This is easily explained by the fact that the majority of Pounder users are pulling them purely against infantry, often where they'll never see a vehicle and they know it. If you kill 60 infantry and 0 vehicles, your VKPH is 0.

If MAXes counted towards VKP*, then the reason I pull Pounders would be accredited.

You said and I quote "doesn't trade much against normal infantry". If your definition of "not much" is 1/2 of effectiveness, then VS Comets "don't give up much against normal infantry" versus TR Mercies, while retaining AV capability.

Pounders are used by more than half of TR maxes, because everything else is lackluster, not just fractures. I'm ok with a Pounder AI nerf/AV buff. However, AI weapons need to be buffed as well. They are already worst among factions.

Not sure why people keep comparing them to an AI weapon ..

Somethings iffy when they have the best AV MAX KPU and KPH but pretty enough the lowest VKPU / VKPH of the AV weapons ... Something is screaming " oh look our balance is out of whack "

I'm just pleased most users here haven't figured out how to use Pounders effectively as AV.

I'm not going to spoil the guessing game until after double XP week d

Hold on, are people seriously comparing pounders to ANTI-INFANTRY weapons and claiming they fall short?

Uh, they SHOULD fall short there. Duh.

17,09 5,15 2,90 0,87 M3 Pounder HEG-Left
13,82 4,09 2,19 0,65 M3 Pounder HEG-Right
10,28 3,70 3,53 1,27 Comet VM2-Left
9,35 3,23 2,69 0,93 Comet VM2-Right
9,23 3,68 4,88 1,95 NCM3 Raven-Right
9,09 3,02 3,41 1,13 NCM2 Falcon-Left

Still head and shoulders above the other AV weapons for killing infantry, a little under on vehicle damage. Nerf spash damage/direct hit against infantry, buff direct hit against vehicles. Done.

And let's stop pretending Ravens are good at killing infantry. They aren't. Might be a tad good (ok more than a tad) against vehicles however, but we know that.

Couple reasons why so many Tr use the pounders than any other weapons.

1. It's the only gun worth a damn and that's really sad considering its role and performance at those roles
2. you already get one for free, so you only need to buy the second one. When you consider reason #1 your choice becomes obvious.
3. When your AI weapons won't do 1/3 of an enemies Max Suits health before dieing. This one really bothers me, our chain guns are just so pathetic against enemy maxes while blueshifts and especially hacksaws go through us like butter. Then you complain why we pull so many pounders.

People will only use the best in a bad situation and when that "best" is an AV stock weapon that can't be improved at all then the game developers seriously ****** up. Tr Max weapons need a rebalance and an improvement vs their intended target.

As someone who has almost exclusively used pounders over any other max AI weapon for AI purposes recently, I think I'll throw my two cents in as to why.

Every


Other


Weapon


Sucks.


All other max weapons for the TR just feel meh at best. They're often to innacurate/inconsistent to be reliable at anything other than closer range engagements, but then you have scatmaxes (which miniguns can't even touch in close range in terms of stopping power). I honestly would rater strap two T-16 Rhinos on my max then have these... things...

Until miniguns are given an area where they are viable (maybe make our weapons preform the best of the three factions in mid, with VS getting long with accurate weapons, and NC short with shotties) nobody is going to pull them, and why would they? Why pull something that is only capable at doing one thing (AI), and does a poor job at it, when you can get something that is decent at both (pounders aren't flat out OP against infantry, its the fact that they are used more for AI than several other max weapons and the addition of the explosive suppression)?

So go ahead, nerf the one dam thing that keeps me from just giving up on maxes entirely.

There's a bit of hypocrisy here. You said "they should fall short" when referencing TR AI weapons, due to Pounders being better at AI. However, you think the solution is "nerf Pounder AI and buff Pounder AV". Don't you mean, "Nerf Pounder AI, Buff Pounder AV and buff Chaingun AI? Why does TR need to have AI weapons that "fall short", when Pounders are no longer viable AI weapons?

Avg KPH/ Avg KPU/ Avg V KPH/ Avg V KPU
35,09 8,71 0,08 0,02 AF-34 Mattock-Right
33,16 6,69 0,08 0,02 NCM1 Scattercannon-Right
32,45 8,53 0,08 0,02 AF-34 Mattock-Left
28,99 6,08 0,09 0,02 AF-23 Grinder-Right
27,46 6,91 0,11 0,03 Quasar VM1-Right
27,43 6,31 0,08 0,02 AF-23 Grinder-Left
27,42 7,23 0,07 0,02 AF-41 Hacksaw-Right
27,11 7,21 0,09 0,03 Nebular VM20-Right
27,01 7,13 0,10 0,03 Blueshift VM5-Right
26,99 7,28 0,10 0,03 Blueshift VM5-Left
26,82 7,29 0,07 0,02 AF-41 Hacksaw-Left
26,47 7,46 0,10 0,03 Nebular VM20-Left
26,47 6,76 0,12 0,03 M6 Onslaught-Right
26,18 6,32 0,13 0,03 Cosmos VM3-Right
25,49 6,90 0,10 0,03 M6 Onslaught-Left
24,63 5,42 0,14 0,03 M1 Heavy Cycler-Right
23,65 6,21 0,11 0,03 MRC3 Mercy-Left
23,57 6,03 0,12 0,03 MRC3 Mercy-Right
23,36 5,55 0,13 0,03 M2 Mutilator-Right
23,19 6,17 0,11 0,03 Cosmos VM3-Left
21,33 5,45 0,12 0,03 M2 Mutilator-Left
19,17 4,54 0,13 0,03 Quasar VM1-Left
17,75 3,83 0,09 0,02 NCM1 Scattercannon-Left
17,57 3,89 0,12 0,03 M1 Heavy Cycler-Left

I'll play the nerf pounders game, if you agree to play the nerf ravens (rof and/or reload speed) and buff fractures (coyote mechanic) game.