Let's play 'Spot the OP Pounders'

I addressed this in post #46. Left scattecannon, left heavy cycler, left quasar are all starting MAX weapons. All 3 of them have lower stats than the right arm, because the learning curve for newbies is more of a dominating effect.

So does that mean that pounders are the most versatile of all AV Max weapons?

You should not follow, his train of thought is totally off tracks.

He is a biased moron that is arguing in a way that simply doesn't work in reality.
NOT using weapons is not gonna worsen their stats, so even IF the TR players would prefer Pounders over their dedicated AI weaponry their stats would not be influenced.
If it worked that way pistols would have horrible stats all around, but since only the time when you actually run around with them is taken into account they have comparatively high KPH stats.

Or in short - he wants to worsen one weapon and make it seem reasonable by implying that this would improve the performance of another weapon.
Which is in the worst case a blatant lie by a faction lobbyist, or in the best case simply a fundamental lack of understanding on his part about how statistics work.

And by the way - I do not prefer pounders over my AI weapons to kill infantery. But especially NC and sometimes VS on my server like to spam 25% MAXes and my AI weaponry simply can't compete I am sadly actually FORCED to use the pounders, because it is the only viable way to get rid of them in those numbers.
Mostly because killing them is pretty pointless unless you can make sure they stay dead, so harassing their numbers down with C4 and rockets is not an option in those numbers.

Not everyone on this forum plays Forumside, jerky. You should scroll up a few posts where I just accepted his counter-point on this very subject, right before you started frothing at the mouth.

In the end, this is about ANTI-VEHICLE weapons. If you can't grasp that an AV weapon is being used for anti-infantry duties instead of dedicated AI weapons means something is inherently wrong, then I don't know what to say to you.

It's like suggesting Ravens are fine at being Over-Powered because NC Maxes are weaker at longer-ranges (outside of shotgun ranges) with AI. That is just as much a garbage argument as saying Pounders are fine as being used for Anti-Infantry when they are supposed to be AV.

But you know, go ahead and attribute it to faction bias if it makes you feel better.

Don't have to. You admitting that we have a problem in one department that we try to fix by using something else is absolutely worthless, since you're still insistent of taking our work-around away without fixing the problem that makes said work-around necessary.

You bombard any attempt for some kind of working solution by saying

You're bad at something, but thats not what we are talking about, so let's focus our attention on the thing you're good at and "fix" it.

That is a cheap trick often used in political speeches to generate the impression that you're caring about our problem and are gonna fix that too, which you never intend to, and thus receiving the trust necessary to get agreement with your actual goal: Taking the thing away that is bugging you.

And how nice of you to bring up the NC MAXes that are GROSSLY OVERPERFORMING at EXACTLY the thing they supposedly need help at because of their LIMITED RANGE. As seen in the stats brought up argue about a nerf of the pounders.
MAYBE that is because they don't actually NEED more range, because most combat where MAXes are pulled happens in enclosed environments where the NC MAX despite his limited range reigns supreme thanks to its extreme burst damage? Nah the stats are lying, they don't actually support your argument.

That entire post makes zero sense. You realize I'm agreeing with Quatin now? My mistake was looking at pounders in a vacuum. In that vacuum I'm entirely right. However, we don't play in a vacuum which Quatin did point out pretty well.

You apparently aren't reading anything. Pounders are over-performing as AI weapons, just like Fractures used to. There is no arguing this.

However, after sleeping on it, it's also now apparent to me several of the TR AI weapons are actually under performing as well. It was a mistake on my part to separate the two things.

I mean seriously, I'm agreeing with you guys and you still have some sort of persecution complex going on. Check that soapbox you were standing on, I think it moved over to the left a bit.

Really now?

THIS is agreeing with us???

Let's ignore the top and bottom of the performance, nerf your AV work-around (subtext: now) and later check for you AI stuff because i think your AV work-around warps your AI stats (which it doesn't because that is not how stats work)

This is AGREEING with us???

Yeah, sorry, NO. That doesn't sound like agreement to me. That sounds like:
"Yeah, ok yes, you're right, now bend over and let me do what I wanted to from the very beginning."

pounders are considered op because theyre great AI and antimax and anti vehicle (sometimes)

That was from yesterday...below is my post from today (post #60). I changed my mind between yesterday and today. That kind of thing does actually happen you know, in the course of a discussion.

quatin said:

Badname82 replied:

Let go of the persecution complex. Not everyone has ulterior motives. We can actually have debates and change opinions. You sir, need to chill the **** out.

They are often used in biolabs... dont se much vehicles in biolabs...

Except for the quasi-Vehicle class.

I gotta admit that I did not actually see that particular post, mostly because I tend to take my time writing first posts in a thread and can easily take 30 minutes or longer to do so, because I tend to check information and stats for myself...
That one (#60) would have been flagged as already read and not pop up as unread for me, since I was writing the response that started this while you posted it.

And I don't have a persecution complex - I have a severe allergy against argumentation thats based on ********.

Which is not to say that I never spout BS, since occasionally I don't notice I'm using outdated data or similar things, which is one reason why I like to check for myself

That's something else we can agree on lol.

EDIT: And yeah, it was dumb to think that using pounders would impact AI weapon stats. KPU would not be affected, and KPH might only be affected if you were running back to a console to change out to pounders every 5 minutes.

Fair enough.

Let's simply make up and agree to kill each other on sight, as it is supposed to be.

By the way: Who wrote that abomination in your signature?It hurts my brain....

I say we make pounders an AI weapon......kinda like what they eventually became in PS1.

Same thing happened there, people *****ed and moaned so much the devs caved and turned a blatant AV weapon into an AI weapon.

I mean, it IS lobbing explosive grenades after all.

Do you really expect to survive 4 nades to the face?

And it takes skill to hit a moving infantry target with pounders in the first place.

It's splash dmg was already nerfed into oblivion because too many people whined about it.

But I digress, this is WHINERSIDE after all.

Here's a tip: Move and it'll make you significantly harder to hit!

What a concept eh?

I can't remember...it was from 2013. It was the guy who was the TR equivalent of Stew360....horribly biased and terrible at spelling, but so accidentally hilarious.

It's kind of hillarious how it ended up rhyming when I know the guy had no intention of doing so (and yes, it's not a real haiku 5-7-5 pattern). This probably leads to people thinking I have some anti-TR bias but I just had to preserve it for historical purposes.

EDIT: Found him! Nariquo

Pounders are awesome. Shread infantry with ease + you get the bonus of killing some enemy armor.
I bought mercys for my max and later on felt sorry for my wasted certs

Ok, the Pounder is good against infantry but when you say "shred infantry" you're laying it on a bit thick... Especially when you consider the actual stats. I mean, if Pounders "shred" infantry, then what is AI MAX units? The four horsemen of the apocalypse?

But whatever, this is forumside and it is all about dat hyperbole.

Little too much, Sparky. Sure I can kill infantry with it, but outside a half-destroyed Flash, there isn't much AV ability with the pounder. Given the fact that the arc on it is absolute balls, it doesn't do well with AV.

I believe large % of pounder kills is actually drivers/gunners/repairing_engineers_caught_in_a_blast, counted as infantry kills. Any AI job you do with pounders you can do with other 1st gen MAX AV. Number of pounder maxes in biolabs is dictated by crappy anti-MAX performance of our AI weapons, thats all. So, if anyone thinks pounders are OP AI, please make a video of you farning infantry with pounders.