In short, the grief system as it stands doesn't work. People deliberately teamkilling others just don't care, they do it freely. Only yesterday someone was taunting me, literally telling me to report him, because he knew nothing would ever come of it. I looked at his killboard at the time, it was liberally dusted with teamkills (what it did not show, however, was any evidence of the incident for which he was claiming vengeance against the driver of the MBT I was in which he destroyed with C4). Today I look at his killboard again and it's even denser with TKs. He, and many like him, have no shame, no empathy, and no care for others. They know there is no consequence for teamkilling, so they teamkill on a whim for every piddling, often perceived, slight, with a borderline-sociopathic disregard for others. Personally I always thought having friendly fire enabled was a poor decision that the game would've been better without, but since it is a core part of the game I'd like to see what potential solutions people might have. I'll start: 1) The weapon lock system might be workable in principle, but perhaps the threshold is too high. At the time of writing (BR91) I've personally never been locked, the only time I've seen the last warning was last year when using the Lasher in a biolab, on which occasion I never killed anyone but repeatedly had to cease fire due to friendlies stepping into line of fire consistently over about 5 minutes - I'm unsure of the specific mechanics of the weapon lock, but perhaps the numbers can be tweaked to account for damaging vs. killing friendlies. 2) It would likely mean taking on more GMs, but adding a TK report system might work in the case of repeat offenders (like the odious fellow mentioned in the first paragraph) - for example, anyone reported 3 times in one hour, or 8/day, or 20/week gets referred to a GM. Methods to safeguard against abuse could be an automated check to see if the reporter was teamkilled in the last 10mins by the reportee; repeated spurious reports might also be punishable; or the reporting function might only be open to accounts who have a lifetime spend above US$5. 3) Temporary (or even permanent) bans might be a suitable punishment. A weapon lock is essentially the same thing, but receiving an error message preventing you from logging in is a greater slap in the face. But they actually have to be issued now and then - I think I've heard of one ban in the entire lifetime of PS2, which was due to some pretty damn egregious harassment, and I don't think the duration was very long. IP tracking (which, if I'm not mistaken, most MMOs do anyway) might be necessary to prevent people opening harassment accounts - I don't see anyone trying to play an online FPS through proxies or VPNs due to the effect on ping, and direct connections will be finite in number and a hassle to set up.
Yes, the grief system is fundamentally broken because it is not enforced. I mean, SOE/DBG says they look into it ...blah blah (insert strong corporate words here)... but they also say we will never hear back from them. That means they could do something or nothing at all. It looks like they usually do nothing. There is no accountability on them when they do not have to acknowledge us when we report players. Intentional TK's, even those who think they are being the TK police and avenging justice for what they feel has been wronged should be temp. banned or more. Many times I see people TK when it isn't even their business. Or TK'ing because they got shot by accident. Seriously, I hear the most vile and despicable things coming out of voice chat sometimes. Serious death threats over TK'ing. This has to stop. It's a game!!!!! Take it easy people and stop TK'ing....
The grief system could definitely use some work, but simply lowering the threshold would be seriously problematic. It only takes a few idiots running in front of your bullets to put you in the "final warning" zone. I wish we had more info on how the system actually works, but to me it feels like it awards grief points in terms of "incidents" more so than kills, so if three people run through your backside and eat a few rounds, that's worse than gunning down some friendly in cold blood.
Not even that much. Your tank sliding down Vaseline Hill, the debris from your Sunderer smushing all the idle players standing around it, friendly infantry suddenly rendering in front of your Scatmax just as you pull the triggers- all of these will spike your grief points. I think Daybreak needs to start running killfeeds through an algorithm that checks for high TK ratios in situations where it being accidental is unlikely (like, say, seven friendly-fire headshot kills with a shotgun within twenty seconds).
I find it highly difficult to control my anger when dealing with TK players. and i get so mad i risk being banned by SOE/DBG when i start cussing them out as i accuse them of not doing their damn job enforcing reprimands of such poor sportsmanship. There is no way for players to "Check" if the GMs are even doing anything in regards to Team Killing. Ill tell you this, it only takes 1 TK jerk to completely ruin your entire play session... you spend an hour looking over your sholder or avoiding members of your faction entirally... its this sick feeling in your stomach... what happens if the guy comes after you and you try and avoid him yet he chases you down and you kill him first before he kills you? then he comes back with another vehicle or weapon of choice and you kill him again... you eventually get a weapons lock but spend the rest of your day watching for that little piss ant... there are several times i get killed by friendlies in a fight, especially during a CQC roll during a major push... but i strongly recommend not retaliating against this... its most often an accident... I have however met utterly impossible people... I swear the anger i feel associated with these jerks i liken to a pure blood rage that id feel overjoyed to have opportunity to let loose on them... but over a game? how absurd! it is the developer's responsibility to ensure fare and mediated game play is available for all of their patrons... i will be honest, i feel that SOE/DBG has done a great job over the past couple years maintaining a game where friendly fire is possible... but how to curb the whole sale slaughter of allied players by a handful of dip****s? placing clearly listed banners marking the player as a frequent team killer isnt a fix... it would lead to abuse... for instance, other players would then TK that person... even if that person was trying to defend themselves from an aggressor and was marginally successful. i had an altercation when i attempted to play TR for the first time a couple weeks ago... did pretty well defending a base but then after taking it... a harasser came up and offered my engineer a ride... i had just repaired some turrets and politely stated... "No Thx... imma go switch to Heavy" i approached a near by Sundy and switch out to a heavy... Suddenly i hear a call out "DiD you just place a Tank Mine by that Sundy?" as though friendly tank mines would ever damage an ally sundy anyways... i looked around and realized they were referring to me... i naturally denied the accusation and began running to a battle position as i knew what was bound to follow. no sooner then i had ducked into a building and spun around ready to fight then 4 guys... 2 of which must have just be in the area when they all descended on me seeking blood... i C4'd 1 of them but died right after... I went back to the NC and havnt played TR sense. right now the only thing you can do is create a log of the event... if you are killed by a TK... dont retaliate... though i know its so frustratingly difficult to control your rage... dont retaliate! if you feel the kill was on purpose... type /report... then select the Last Killer option... select the Harassment tag... and type TK in the description. This will mark a clear moment that can be recalled and can show a Pattern of Behavior. Ill be honest, I have been known to shoot first when i suspect an ally is about to attack me... i feel no shame for teaching them the error of their ways... but i often wonder if i am only further contributing to the problem. Dont get involved with other player's ********. some people might have just accused a player of TK'ing when in fact they havnt done anything at all... then you and a group of buddies come along and take turns ganking the guy... that is a horrible experience to be on the receiving end of... if you witness team killing... and im talking not accidental stuff... report both parties... the GMs can review all data exchanged and will know who is at fault and if action is needed. they can even recall voice data exchanged between players during the event. GL and dont be a Dick...
The problem is just making the in-game penalties more harsh can be difficult for some playstyles and some situations. If you look at genuine problem TKers they generally have a TK percentage of 20%+. Perhaps the grief system should be graded so those with 20%+ TKs (either total or in the last month) get weapon lock much, much sooner and for longer (and those with 50%+ - there are a few) just get a short ban with weapon lock.
Well said, and I understand your rage. Especially the part where some people will TK others because they misunderstand the situation or they are just getting in others business. I, like many, have very little confidence in the reporting system being effective in any way without getting feedback. Case in point, it is almost a certainty that we will not even get a dev reply to this thread. I welcome a dev to actually prove me wrong, that would be wonderful. But it's also sad that I have to create this sort of challenge to get a reply to the griefing problem.
There is maybe adequate solutions to grief points system. Add 2nd grief point multiplier meter which is logarithmic. You accumulate these multiplier points as you gain grief points. This 2nd grief point multiplier can start from negative value. And would not reset on player log off. Only decay slowly while you are playing. And 2nd meter should be heavy multiplier to weapon lock timer if you get your weapons locked. If you tendency is to team kill, pretty soon you would be facing inconveniently long weapon lock times. And can only return your char to playable state by idling hours in game doing nothing.
The weapon lock system used to be harsh. You'd get blocked after about 2 TKs. People were crying salty tears. If you get TKed alot, it's mostly your fault, though. Never run in front of ppl if possible. Never run around the middle of a defenden room or around the doors of that room. If it's intentional TK, just leave the base, there are alwys other fights. It's the best you can do right now, since there won't be consequences for the TKer.
I think the anti-grief system could work on a points system and be based not only on the number of TKs - but on the type of weapon used and the circumstances. TKing people accidentally with a lasher, grenade or heat etc - or running them over with a tank is quite easy in the heat of battle - especially if they already have low health TKing somebody in a spawn room with a knife, killing somebody from full health with a pistol or destroying a friendly vehicle with C4 is virtually impossible to do accidentally. The latter scenarios should be graded much harsher and people with multiple instances of this should get weapons lock or even temporary bans much sooner.
Yeah, these would be good direction to take it. Also, it desperately needs a "forgive" system as well. Sometimes I know it is my fault for being in the wrong place and I could forgive that player their potential grief points. Doing so would help separate the intentional TKers from accidents, which means you would be able to make a harsher system without hurting the majority. Until the system is complex enough to take a stab at working out accidents vs deliberate it simply can't be harsh.
Ah yes, the punish/forgive idea - was that Halo? I like that. Most of the time it's obvious when it's an accident, and the rest of the time are either deliberate or quickly solved via one PM each way.
you're reading too far into it... ive been playing plentside 2 and loving it ever sense Steam told me it was available too me... i love the game so much, on my NC alone, ive spent over $2 grand. i Dont regret it, except when attempting to play other factions... im too invested in NC to switch over. That being said, ill tell you right now that PS2 Gms may not openly communicate with you on the level of lets say a Blizzard GM *not sure if they are still doing that as i havnt played wow in freaking forever and a day plus one an a half... but ill tell you the GMs in PS2 are active and earning their pay and ill "Foregetmenot" pay any amount of money to make sure they know how much i appreciate this. I know Daybreak let some people go but i hope for Higby's sake that they havent skimped on the GMs for this game... they make me smile when i hear them announce their arrival as they nuke someone for hacking. you'll never get that playing some Korean game. Screw you Nexon! Perfectworld! Daybreak for the win! oh and just trust in the system buddy... if you are sick of being facerolled and want a relaxed experience come check me and my modest outfit out on Connary... my name is Sweetheart CorazonSierra and i play on NC primarily... but i also have a TR and VS alt on the happenstance you wanna roll... and im the boss of my gamer clans PS2 devision. *it sounds big an important and such but we are just a small group of fun seeking well mannered peeps... i think if girls are in your gamer clan... you have the right stuff as we wont tolerate jerks for long. We are the Universal Phantoms!
you forgot... dont drive dirrectly behind other vehicals. always off to the left or right... and its polite to call out if you want to pass someone driving like a granny. *lag is really awkward when you suddenly rear up into someone riding too close to your bumper... its a good lesson for real life too... buckle up you crazy drivers. 10 points a pedestrian doesnt apply in the real world.
yesterday had a scrub hop in my Prowler and use my Vulcan to attempt to kill another Prowler that rolled past... i kicked him out and ran over him... i dont condone team killing... but had i not halted that situation the other prowler would have gotten into a feud with me... he thanked me for my quick response but i felt bad having to educate so harshly a new player on proper Planetside etiquette. its important to note that guy also was shooting me in the back side as a max. i told my gunner NOT to retaliate as i had passive and fire suppression and that it was likely an accident. however when he later hopped in my secondary and attacked the ally i couldnt risk loosing my tank to a fued started by a scrub. we only had 2 tanks at that tech plant and loosing one while suppressing the vs that outnumbered us 10 to one on Hosson would have been the pits. please newbies... i love you guys but dont be douchebagles. if Jesus road a tank he wouldnt turn the other cheek. he'd wrek your face.
Did you ever try to Play minigun in crowded places like subterranian? I had a weapon lock within one mag, without any teamkill at all... There is always an unaware ******* who just has to jump in front of you as you spin up the gun. The lock system is not working as it should, you get lock for ridicoulous things and once you got a lock, there is good chance you will get a longer one soon because of one or two accidental hits that dont even kill. On the other hand i can go and do a lot of grief blowing up allies with c4 or mines, wasting their resources. I can go on and 2 hit kill a lot of infantry with my knive before i get a lock. This System just Needs to Change to a countdown timer for tk's, lets say 10. You may do 10 tk in 1 hour. If not you are locked for a whole hour. Getting into the next 10 range awards another bonus hour on top. So killing a full friendly sunderer would award you with 13 (12 seats + vehicle) tk, instant lock for 2 hours. Every hour the 10 reset to Zero, not counting active locks of course. Problem fixed.
Ive suggested this before Exponential loss of nanites for Teamkilling on top of weapons locking. So, killing 1-2 people, no penalty, **** happens 3, 75 lost, 4 150 more lost,so on so forth. when you get above 750 weapons lock and you are unable to spawn vehicles.
