Precise rolling is my preference, not something everyone appreciates. I suppose if you only play A2A, or if you play mixed or A2G at a distance from the ground, then it might not matter all that much. I find it matters most when I'm attacking ground targets, especially with the AH. We have a shotgun for our AI nosegun, which usually means I have to get a little close to the ground to get kills. Being able to boost out of there when I need to get away fast, and without crashing, is something that saves me on a regular basis.
Hey if it works for people, awesome. I'm certainly not in a position to challenge that I just can't wrap my head around the advantage to precision rolling. All it is - in essence - is an aileron roll. There is no change in direction of flight with just a roll. If you combine it with other controls, sure; but all anyone seems to want to talk about is precision rolling. Only thing I can see that being useful for is to rotate your "wing" mounted weapons around your axis of flight. I think I'm too stuck in the arcade style flight game mindset to fully grasp the advantages of a plain old roll in PS2. Either way, let those that are happy with the current controls keep them. But please let those of us who aren't change them!
“Do you guys know, why we have "Invert reverse steering for tanks" as an option under settings? Because according to statistics, half the population cannot drive a remote controlled car when it is facing them... and practically, no amount of practice helps.” I was developing a game, I was the producer / Designer. The main character was followed by the camera and there was an option to detach /drop the camera so the main character could swim around, even face the still camera which was always facing the avatar but stayed in one place unless the avatar moved beyond a certain range. This camera mode was pretty much just like controlling an RC car. And most of my development team hated it while I loved it, as it allowed really beautiful cinematic-style game experience and was optional anyway. But they insisted, that it was very confusing and thus alienating the players. I think it was a quasi accident that I stumbled on an article soon after describing people's difficulty controlling an RC vehicle when it was facing the user. The 50% number stuck in my head as it was the main reason I gave in and removed that particular camera mode from the game. This was 14 years ago and I am not sure I can track down that particular research, but I am sure one could Google around if it is so interesting or unbelievable. What I do know, that I was always puzzled, how come so many people were so inept in knowing where the basketball is/was after it bounced from the ring. For me it was natural to know, while other's were totally lost. I guess the ability to transpose yourself into a different viewpoint (spatially) and control or predict things from that other camera angle is not an innate ability for all. Men are statistically better at it than women, but still many men have difficulty doing so. Goos 3D spatial awareness is a talent, even if it is not a rare one. As to the flight controls, the biggest hurdle is the changing of controls between the infantry/ground and air play. While on the ground, your mouse controlls the camera look (pitch and yaw) then you enter the aircraft, where the yaw becomes roll. All your muscle memory is screwed up in an instant. There is a reason why a cardinal rule of game development is never taking away or changing the control mechanics of the player. The entire game is about your ability to control what is happening. Messing with that generates such a level of frustration, which is prohibitive if you want to keep the player engaged. I am sure many can switch between the two types of control easily. But I suspect, that the majority has serious difficulties. And maybe practice helps a lot, but the initial investment is very costly. I am usually very good at these things and still refuse to fly because of the following things: 1.) I crashed more than a couple hundred ESFs in the VR room and still not feeling that I got even a little better at it. So it is not a trivial hurdle to jump through (for me) 2.) There is absolutely no reason not to allow rebinding yaw, all the arguments for the current control scheme are the same one line: "trust me it is way better this way". It is a stupid answer, just like saying only Ferraris and Lamborghinis should exist, because why would anyone want anything lesser? Well, some people jsut want to be able to fly around to see the gameworld, some want to feel like being in a real aircraft, instead of pumping the thrusters constantly just to be able to stay in the air. What on earth is FUN about giving the ****tiest controls for a vehicle in a game? I want to fly, not struggle to avoid crashing. Would you enjoy driving your car is all the controls were buttons lined up in a single row on the floor? No. So why do we avoid doing the realistic thing (making things easier to control) in a game? It is plain stupid. I am not against allowing complicated controls, I am against preventing most of us having simplified controls and live with its handicaps. 3.) The acrobatics these ESFs can do in the air are completely detached from reality. Someone said, that if anything is possible, nothing is interesting. This is exactly how I feel with ESFs and Fantasy and Agatha Christie novels. Anything is possible at any time, so why the **** would I care who is the killer, when she can whip out previously unknown facts on the last page and reveal the murderer? Why would I keep guessing, when I KNOW she can turn anything around at whim. The same in fantasy novels... if anyone can have any potion or spell to counter anything then why would I be sitting on the edge of my seat caring for the protagonist? What we DO find interesting is when we can use our knowledge and experience to predict the future and thus succeed. When I see that aircraft in a certain position at a certain angle and know where to predict it will be and lead my shots. Would you enjoy playing the game if everyone had the speed hack and teleport all over the base? No. That is why we hate Redeployside as well. It KILLS the war game. All of Sun Tzu can be thrown out the window, because when an army can be anywhere at any time and the next moment somewhere completely different place, then there is no strategy, there is no logistics, there is no espionage required, because it is all meaningless.
1) you just never went through correct learning process. Read my previous posts for reference 2) yes, they could have allowed rebinding... 3) acrobatics detached from reality? How so? They obey a couple of simplified physical laws. All moves are easily understandable by people with basic physics knowledge. I periodically read how RM is a bug etc. Well if only people paid more attention in school...
In fact, that was my fisrt post in Alpha Squad test forum, in early alpha. So, about 3 years ago. So, no, I don't think they care. Remember people, arguing if the rebinded controls for ESF are pointless becasue you DON'T USE THEM is stupid, and if you try to take away OPTION to do something that you too could do too from other people - you should feel bad. And finally, I would like to see that no-sayers keybinds. Surely they never rebinded anything, ever. *don't mind my singature character, I lost my main in pro sieben/soe character transfer mess-up. Still got Alpha Squad emblem to show for it though.
I'll say that at the same time they'll introduce the mouse yaw, (and they obviously should, just to let more people enjoy the air game) they should decrease the damage primary weapons do to infantry. Good players have been wrecking faces with it for too long.
Well I hope you don't mean default noseguns. Because if you do - it would be really some r@tarded logic... Oh, stop whining. Most pilots AGREE they should allow rebinding. Even though I know from my own experience, it's better how it is (I flew with both in BF3). Which doesn't matter I'm against rebinding. You, people, should stop flaming over impossibility to rebind and learn the way it is. I described how to relearn, but no one replied to my advice. I guess people rather cry about their problems instead of trying to fix them.
Yeah this. I am terror in an air vehicle several other games. In PS2, I crash. Over and over. It's extremely unwieldy and backwards. Not being able to completely aim with mouse really just destroys it. Probably the worst flight controls on mouse+keyboard I've seen in a game.
Why people would want to rebind to an inferior method I don't know, but I'm pretty damn sure they should have the right to.
I'm curious about what games you're talking about. In a real airplane the flight stick or yoke controls pitch and roll, the same as the mouse in planetside. Warthunder seems to be the big flight sim everyone takes about these days so I looked that up, mouse controls pitch and roll. The other flight sim I can think of is IL-2 Sturmovik, looking that one up mouse control appears to not be an option at all. The only games I've played with yaw on the mouse, lets call it the 'flying observer cam' were things like the space level in halo reach. But that wasn't meant to have any depth, just be 5 minutes of turkey shooting to break up the real game. Yaw in aircraft is controlled by foot pedals or a yaw bar btw, and it used for smaller adjustments, compensating for slip for example. Aircraft do not use yaw as their primary form of turning, they roll and pitch.
In WarThunder it all depends on your control 'level'. It ranges from 'mouse aim' which is basically you fly where your mouse points and the AI instructor handles the tedious details or you can go to full simulator controls. And everything in between. What hangs me up is that when I move my mouse laterally I expect to freelook left or right. In PS2 that just gets me upside down and disoriented. I messed around in VR last night for 30-45 minutes just doing very slow flying. I was mostly ok with slow simple maneuvers, but as soon as I added any speed or complexity my brain got crossed up. A couple of times the disorientation almost made me nauseous. I think I could probably get used to it, but it would take me a very long time. My availability to play is limited, and I cant see spending the necessary time to learn to do something that just makes me sick lol.
Try doing that again but in third person view, it's less disorienting. Most PS2 pilots spend the majority of their time in that view anyway since it results in better situational awareness. Then once you get that down switch to first person to aim. It should not take you 45 minutes to the basic flying mechanics down, more like 15. That's 15m to fly around without crashing into stuff, not to be any good.
Well you made my point for me. It's a mouse. What is intuitive for a joystick is not necessarily intuitive for a mouse.
But my point is that's how aircraft fly. And they fly that way because using pure rudder to turn planes doesn't work. And, while PS2 is a sci-fi game with barely any physics modeling where they could have changed that, PS2 did not change that. Aircraft barely turn under pure yaw. You have to learn to roll, and you need analog control of that roll to aim. Imagine if you slammed your mouse to the side quickly and...the reticule barely moved. It wouldn't work. It would feel like your mouse is broken. If you happen to have a corsair mouse you can set different X and Y DPI, set the Y setting to something normal and drop the X to maybe 1/10 that. See how it feels. So yes, they could add the option to rebind your mouse. And you'd set that, realize your mouse still doesn't feel like a mouse because the cursor doesn't track your mouse, and you're back to the forums complaining. I do not object to the devs adding the option. What I do object to is people who want to fly in PS2 waiting for this option. Because it wouldn't work and you'd have to learn to fly with roll on your mouse, so save yourself some time, spend a little time in the VR, and get into the game now.
I just looked it up so the guy wouldn't whine about things I did NOT say. Out of the almost 900 hours playing NC... 27 hours have been spent in a Reaver with 98 kills. Because mostly when I do fly it, it is just to get from point A to point B or for recon (fully cert'd scout radar). I meet another aircraft, I'm usually dead if I can't outrun them. I see know that this keybinding thing will never change with SOE in Planetside2. So be it. I simply will not use aircraft that much, as I have been doing for awhile now. Very much a shame. And very much stupid, all at the same time.
No one is whining here. I flew with both key and mouse yaw in bf3/4 with great results, and prefere key roll and I'm fine with your choice too - and it works for me in PS2 just not as the preferred method. What I fail to see, is the point of your post. We are not allowed to try getting an option in the game, becasue YOU say so? Don't you think you are bordering megalomania here? Also, you refere to logic: then People were trying to FIX THE PROBLEM by reporting to devs that it would be nice to have a rebind option. Logic. You don't have it. Oh and I do have to say that, becasue enough is enough. Shove that "crying" nonsense down your exhaust port. If you can't have a conversation without using "whining" and "crying" when you obviously have no arguments, just don't post. If "crying" is for you an equivalent of discussion where someone does not agree with you, you should seek specialist help, as there might be unresolved childhood trauma issues.
I'm pretty sure the default controls in BF3 are that way too. It can be changed to have yaw on the mouse though. Also this thread makes me wonder how many people complain about the physics not being real enough, and then complain that they can't put yaw on the mouse. The current setup is pretty much as close as it gets to a real jet without using a joystick. I also wonder how many people here fly without inverted pitch. I can't imagine putting yaw on the mouse and then using inverted flight controls, that would just feel like playing a regular FPS with inverted pitch. I can't guarantee that it eventually won't make you sick, but I suspect that you will get used to it.
I meant something different. There is not the smallest clue that YAW will be added. There is a couple dozen of similar threads "add rebind" that didn't lead anywhere and I personally don't see any chance of development. To crying, I never wrote this, I wrote "whining", didn't I? It's a bit more polite... However. By whining / flaming I meant that in such threads there are always people who start shaming current control scheme (which have been for years now) and how it's impossible to learn to ROLL with mouse. It's not impossible and it's not difficult. I saw people write that they would fly for hours just crashing and that it wouldn't lead anywhere. I wrote my advices: "First you need to learn to fly in a straight way using YAW only, then ROLL only.. Spend at least 5 minutes on each in VR everytime you go online. That way your brain will get easily used to what is what. Then start combining it, spend time circling around tanks / infantry and shooting them. Do it for at least 5 minutes. Then learn reverse maneuver and do it around different objects in VR or even under some objects. Learn to fly below trees... There is so much simple stuff you can do to help yourself ADJUST..." Why no one reacted to it? I tell you why and I do see it as the biggest problem: people rather embrace the issue and complain than trying to fix it. And the only fix (that has been around for long) is steady practice of simple ESF movements. If everyone of the people in the thread would do what I wrote, they'd be fine. Proper practice changes habits! PS there is no disagreement, if you read carefully, I agree with enabling rebinding. But when I post solid advice but people still go on about "impossibility" - it is called whining.
Ok, I think we are closer on the view of the problem than we think. I do agree, that current system is learnable and still effective, I do agree people CAN learn to use it even if they used other control schemes - but you have to admit things you wrote right now are far more constructive than before. Moreso, I do agree the best course of action is to learn the CURRENT way and I also agree chances of SOE adding ESF rebind are close to zero. Saying that, you still worded your post in rather bad way, in rather misleading high horse tone. One thing I have to point out though: yet: So, yes, you did.
